Qantaslink Rosters - flight crew
BNE base is pretty similar to SYD. 99% of newbies are going to BNE on the 400.
400 FO's do about 50hrs a month, but with all the training going on it can vary quite a bit. CAPT's get flogged and a few are over it. Around 1 overnight per week, sometimes more, sometimes less. Over night trips are usually 5/3 or 3/3. Day trips are either 4/2 sectors and start between 0445-0700 and finish 1200-1300 or start at 1200-1400 and finish 1900-2100. All overnights are min rest except CNS where you either have the afternoon off or the following morning.
Move to left seat is anywhere from 12 months to 4 years, however seeing as everyone is doing ICUS, the wait will blow out in around 12 months as all the ICUS FO's gain the requirements for the left seat. So be prepared for the wait.
If you ignore all the politics and crap that comes with being in aviation and realise that management are no better or worse than anywhere else then it's not a bad place to be. Certainly are worse things to do for less money.
400 FO's do about 50hrs a month, but with all the training going on it can vary quite a bit. CAPT's get flogged and a few are over it. Around 1 overnight per week, sometimes more, sometimes less. Over night trips are usually 5/3 or 3/3. Day trips are either 4/2 sectors and start between 0445-0700 and finish 1200-1300 or start at 1200-1400 and finish 1900-2100. All overnights are min rest except CNS where you either have the afternoon off or the following morning.
Move to left seat is anywhere from 12 months to 4 years, however seeing as everyone is doing ICUS, the wait will blow out in around 12 months as all the ICUS FO's gain the requirements for the left seat. So be prepared for the wait.
If you ignore all the politics and crap that comes with being in aviation and realise that management are no better or worse than anywhere else then it's not a bad place to be. Certainly are worse things to do for less money.
Most commands are back to the classic (2/300). A few managed to go straight onto the 400 in CNS though.
Requirements are;
1 year in the company, and
700hrs on company aircraft, and
2000hr aeronautical.
The last one was previously waived if you had 2000hr on company aircraft. Caught a few out who knocked back a classic command hoping for the 400, and now have to wait for the 2000 aeronautical.
Requirements are;
1 year in the company, and
700hrs on company aircraft, and
2000hr aeronautical.
The last one was previously waived if you had 2000hr on company aircraft. Caught a few out who knocked back a classic command hoping for the 400, and now have to wait for the 2000 aeronautical.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, I appreciate the replies as well.
Currently working in an internal office doing legal/admin work - very boring.
My aim is for Qlink as well. Its better than an internal office doing admin/legal work. Less money as a pilot but a better lifestyle and more enjoyable. Human nature, politics and economics seem to be pretty consistent in most industries, thereby preventing the perfect utopian world we all seek. As for the money, I'm not doing it for the money and I expect a lot of other pilots aren't either.
My questions
(i) What are the chances of getting recruited as a FO to a Melbourne base??? (I think Divosh has indicated before that most new recruits go to Sunstate or Sydney and have to wait for an opening in Melb.)
(ii) I presume that the same goes for a Capt position in MEL and expect that a command has to be taken somewhere less desirable in Eastern (SYD/Mildura) then transfer to the preferred base of MEL when a vacancy arises???
(iii) And the impossible question - will Qlink recruit someone over 40???
QLink say they don't discriminate on the basis of age etc..
Others say thare QL do recruit over 40 and there are recent examples of 40+ pilots being recruited, but I guess the closer I get to 45, the lower my chances???
Cheers...
Currently working in an internal office doing legal/admin work - very boring.
My aim is for Qlink as well. Its better than an internal office doing admin/legal work. Less money as a pilot but a better lifestyle and more enjoyable. Human nature, politics and economics seem to be pretty consistent in most industries, thereby preventing the perfect utopian world we all seek. As for the money, I'm not doing it for the money and I expect a lot of other pilots aren't either.
My questions
(i) What are the chances of getting recruited as a FO to a Melbourne base??? (I think Divosh has indicated before that most new recruits go to Sunstate or Sydney and have to wait for an opening in Melb.)
(ii) I presume that the same goes for a Capt position in MEL and expect that a command has to be taken somewhere less desirable in Eastern (SYD/Mildura) then transfer to the preferred base of MEL when a vacancy arises???
(iii) And the impossible question - will Qlink recruit someone over 40???
QLink say they don't discriminate on the basis of age etc..
Others say thare QL do recruit over 40 and there are recent examples of 40+ pilots being recruited, but I guess the closer I get to 45, the lower my chances???
Cheers...
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Melbourne
Age: 60
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paul Damian
1. Something reasonably 'unusual' would have to happen for an FO to be recruited into the Melbourne base in the forseeable future. By 'unusual' I'm describing at least 15 resignations from MEL/MQL/SYD and/or two additional aircraft being based out of MEL. I'm not saying it can't or wont happen, but...
2. See (1) above, except you wont see MQL as a captain. All the MQL captains are pretty happy right where they are.
3. Yes, why not? They hired me at 45
I know of four other 40+ hires, the last one was within the past 12 months.
DIVOSH!
1. Something reasonably 'unusual' would have to happen for an FO to be recruited into the Melbourne base in the forseeable future. By 'unusual' I'm describing at least 15 resignations from MEL/MQL/SYD and/or two additional aircraft being based out of MEL. I'm not saying it can't or wont happen, but...
2. See (1) above, except you wont see MQL as a captain. All the MQL captains are pretty happy right where they are.
3. Yes, why not? They hired me at 45
I know of four other 40+ hires, the last one was within the past 12 months.DIVOSH!
It would not surprise me if being over 40 actually worked in your favour, you are less likely to leave at that age and so a safer bet for the company.
The waiting list for Melbourne last time I check was about 2 years for an FO and 5+ for a Captain. Also you have to be in Eastern just to get on the list.
The waiting list for Melbourne last time I check was about 2 years for an FO and 5+ for a Captain. Also you have to be in Eastern just to get on the list.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: On the equator
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So are you given a choice when you apply, or do they allocate you to either Eastern or Sunnies once employed by Qlink?
I have to laugh that 99% of new hires go to BNE. I was advised they couldn't process my application as I would only accept a BNE base- this as an Intl Wide Body Trng Capt with previous D8 exp, a Degree and ex-military pilot!. Clearly I was applying for the Regional lifestyle. They wouldn't even look at getting me into a 'hold pool' as I was uncompetitive due to my basing preference. 
So are you given a choice when you apply, or do they allocate you to either Eastern or Sunnies once employed by Qlink?
17th Feb 2011 14:47
17th Feb 2011 14:47
You should be told where you are to be based on your first day, before signing anything, so if you truly do not wish to be based in that port you can leave.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Going Nowhere,
Thank you for that information. Liked the concluding comment
Rmcdonal, DiVosh,
Cheers.
Just reading the current EBA for Eastern.
How do you guys find the travel benefits with the QF group?
Could someone explain the standby system? Im not sure how that works when you want to plan your holiday?
Thank you for that information. Liked the concluding comment
Rmcdonal, DiVosh,
Cheers.
Just reading the current EBA for Eastern.
How do you guys find the travel benefits with the QF group?
Could someone explain the standby system? Im not sure how that works when you want to plan your holiday?
Staff travel benefits vary from company to company, but with all(?) Australian airlines are on a standby basis only - that is you only travel if there are empty seats. It is relatively cheap (depending what you think an empty seat should be worth
) and works well if: you aren't travelling with dependents, you are flexible with your travel dates and you don't want to travel in peak times.
Generally if you think about what time you take your holidays and build a buffer in at the end to get home before going back to work it's pretty good. Have heard of several stories though of guys having to pay through the nose for a last minute ticket to get home when all the flights suddenly fill up.
) and works well if: you aren't travelling with dependents, you are flexible with your travel dates and you don't want to travel in peak times.Generally if you think about what time you take your holidays and build a buffer in at the end to get home before going back to work it's pretty good. Have heard of several stories though of guys having to pay through the nose for a last minute ticket to get home when all the flights suddenly fill up.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ggrowler,
Thank you for your comments on the travel.
Your previous post with regards the days off you get a month is a kicker.
Bug4514,
I think it would be safe to say Qantaslink recruitment will be ongoing. If you take the gobal growth projections, local growth projections and the fact that most pilots will see qantaslink as a stepping stone in a career path. Thats only paper trading but it would be a safe bet.
Thank you for your comments on the travel.
Your previous post with regards the days off you get a month is a kicker.
Bug4514,
I think it would be safe to say Qantaslink recruitment will be ongoing. If you take the gobal growth projections, local growth projections and the fact that most pilots will see qantaslink as a stepping stone in a career path. Thats only paper trading but it would be a safe bet.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't get to concerned there CAPT. I started the thread and would like to thank,
Rmcdonal,
Going nowhere,
Di Vosh,
Gobal Xpress and
Ggrowler.
I appreciate you all taking the time out to answer my questions.
Happy landings
Rmcdonal,
Going nowhere,
Di Vosh,
Gobal Xpress and
Ggrowler.
I appreciate you all taking the time out to answer my questions.
Happy landings
Last edited by BuildnTime; 18th Feb 2011 at 21:19.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Goods and the Bads ..updated..
BuildnTime, I second what ggrowler says.
Have a read of the EBAs closely and compare things like:
Days off per roster
Minimum Rest
Maximum Sectors per day
Forced Moves
Direct Entry Commands
Overtime threshold (this can be misleading as sure the threshold is low but the company actually gets people doing 6 short sectors days 6 days a week)
(If someone is bored feel free to make a table it will tell you who's who straight away!!) It would be really interesting to see all the operators compared in a snapshot like that. I'm sure one of the unions has done it.
Interestingly enough J* come out as best for Maximum Sectors per day being 4 and VB second being 5. Have a look at Qlink (they have an open cheque book in this area). Jetstar also pay more money for working a day off. They fall down however in another are like forced base moves. Qlink probably has better meals and access to lounges whereas VB pilots are pretty much banned from the lounges (unless paying and out of uniform etc). At Jetstar and QF there is more respect in general for pilots from ground staff. At VB the culture that was implemented at the start was that ALL staff are equal, and it shows. You could be paxing to Perth and wont be offered a peanut or a cracker. Only recently were pilots given exit rows with more leg room. There is no chance of business class (CEO's word/ semi backflip) which is a given at Qlink. At VB you might get a reserve roster once a year or two but none during the normal roster. At J* you might have rosters riddled with reserves and be called out to do sim for one or all of them at 2 hours notice. Thus its possible on every roster to get a call out whereas at VB you only have to worry about this if you have a reserve roster. At Qantas and Cathay they seem to be in the Sim ALL the time (4 a year i think). At VB its 2. At Cathay you do interviews for every position change and at Cathay and Emirates they can just change your terms and conditions as they see fit.
You have to find what the most important things are for you. For a good mate of mine job security was the most important: He works at Jetstar (they will never shut down, the government will close before them!). Another mate can't fathom not using the QF lounges and drinking the best wine in Business class, he chose correctly by not applying to VB and staying at Qlink.
In the regional/charter world there is this strange perception that the JQ/VB/QF/VA pilots have this terrible lifestyle and that it's just not worth the extra coin. Living in hotel rooms and terrible hours are some of the favourite lines. Another one (right or wrong arguments aside) is the 30k for the endorsement. They conveniently forget to mention that it actually works out to 15-18k out of pocket whilst on a higher salary from day one with no training wage either. They also tend to not mention things like the staff travel, flying above 90% of the weather 90% of the time, or performance on one engine, employability, support, destinations etc. I think this is promulgated by people within the regionals. I know because I worked in one. Icarus2001 mentions it to me in the big Tiger thread. My reply to him is that nice is what you like and if you he is happy there then thats great. That is the key. But don't fool yourself into thinking Jetstar is miserable or V Australia is crap. It ain't. Both could be better.
Having done all stops (over 15 years) from a C172 through to an Airline I can say there is no beating working for a Domestic Airline in my book. I suspect some International (North South) may even be better. Having said that, my second best job was a piston one where the culture was fantastic. One of the best jobs I had wasn't a flying one as well (the boss was a top bloke). I personally drew the line when working for a regional/charter mob and Jetstar New Zealand emailed me. Although I wanted to leave at all costs as my outfit was the pits it wasn't enough to make me want to do that. I would sooner have retrained in another vocation. I don't know much about Tiger but I do know they are a super LCC and that just doesn't work for me.
My current roster regularly has between 11-18 days off per month. The average would be 15. My minimum rest is 12 hours and I get to influence what my roster looks like. When I pax 50% of the time I don't get offered a tea/coffee or a smack in the mouth. I wouldn't dream of setting foot in a lounge or for that matter arguing on a seating issue on staff travel. If I want day trips I put that as #1 in my list. If I want overnights in SYD likewise. My roster changes in the last 365 days are: 2. I'd say the most important things in my list are:
1. Culture (What is the focus here? Are pilots always the problem here? How do people speak to one another here? Do I have to watch my payslips? How do we generate dollars - Cost cutting or business building? What are the checkies like? Is it training or checking? How many people have been sacked during a check here? Are things improving/being automated? Things like that)
2. Roster Bidding/Building (What systems are in place?)
3. Morale (Are people angry here all the time. Is it always us vs them? Would most people shake the CEOs hand willingly?)
4. Money or Terms Conditions (Am I better off?
I only worked out the culture of the various companies by speaking to a lot of people over years and years.
Good luck.
Have a read of the EBAs closely and compare things like:
Days off per roster
Minimum Rest
Maximum Sectors per day
Forced Moves
Direct Entry Commands
Overtime threshold (this can be misleading as sure the threshold is low but the company actually gets people doing 6 short sectors days 6 days a week)
(If someone is bored feel free to make a table it will tell you who's who straight away!!) It would be really interesting to see all the operators compared in a snapshot like that. I'm sure one of the unions has done it.
Interestingly enough J* come out as best for Maximum Sectors per day being 4 and VB second being 5. Have a look at Qlink (they have an open cheque book in this area). Jetstar also pay more money for working a day off. They fall down however in another are like forced base moves. Qlink probably has better meals and access to lounges whereas VB pilots are pretty much banned from the lounges (unless paying and out of uniform etc). At Jetstar and QF there is more respect in general for pilots from ground staff. At VB the culture that was implemented at the start was that ALL staff are equal, and it shows. You could be paxing to Perth and wont be offered a peanut or a cracker. Only recently were pilots given exit rows with more leg room. There is no chance of business class (CEO's word/ semi backflip) which is a given at Qlink. At VB you might get a reserve roster once a year or two but none during the normal roster. At J* you might have rosters riddled with reserves and be called out to do sim for one or all of them at 2 hours notice. Thus its possible on every roster to get a call out whereas at VB you only have to worry about this if you have a reserve roster. At Qantas and Cathay they seem to be in the Sim ALL the time (4 a year i think). At VB its 2. At Cathay you do interviews for every position change and at Cathay and Emirates they can just change your terms and conditions as they see fit.
You have to find what the most important things are for you. For a good mate of mine job security was the most important: He works at Jetstar (they will never shut down, the government will close before them!). Another mate can't fathom not using the QF lounges and drinking the best wine in Business class, he chose correctly by not applying to VB and staying at Qlink.
In the regional/charter world there is this strange perception that the JQ/VB/QF/VA pilots have this terrible lifestyle and that it's just not worth the extra coin. Living in hotel rooms and terrible hours are some of the favourite lines. Another one (right or wrong arguments aside) is the 30k for the endorsement. They conveniently forget to mention that it actually works out to 15-18k out of pocket whilst on a higher salary from day one with no training wage either. They also tend to not mention things like the staff travel, flying above 90% of the weather 90% of the time, or performance on one engine, employability, support, destinations etc. I think this is promulgated by people within the regionals. I know because I worked in one. Icarus2001 mentions it to me in the big Tiger thread. My reply to him is that nice is what you like and if you he is happy there then thats great. That is the key. But don't fool yourself into thinking Jetstar is miserable or V Australia is crap. It ain't. Both could be better.
Having done all stops (over 15 years) from a C172 through to an Airline I can say there is no beating working for a Domestic Airline in my book. I suspect some International (North South) may even be better. Having said that, my second best job was a piston one where the culture was fantastic. One of the best jobs I had wasn't a flying one as well (the boss was a top bloke). I personally drew the line when working for a regional/charter mob and Jetstar New Zealand emailed me. Although I wanted to leave at all costs as my outfit was the pits it wasn't enough to make me want to do that. I would sooner have retrained in another vocation. I don't know much about Tiger but I do know they are a super LCC and that just doesn't work for me.
My current roster regularly has between 11-18 days off per month. The average would be 15. My minimum rest is 12 hours and I get to influence what my roster looks like. When I pax 50% of the time I don't get offered a tea/coffee or a smack in the mouth. I wouldn't dream of setting foot in a lounge or for that matter arguing on a seating issue on staff travel. If I want day trips I put that as #1 in my list. If I want overnights in SYD likewise. My roster changes in the last 365 days are: 2. I'd say the most important things in my list are:
1. Culture (What is the focus here? Are pilots always the problem here? How do people speak to one another here? Do I have to watch my payslips? How do we generate dollars - Cost cutting or business building? What are the checkies like? Is it training or checking? How many people have been sacked during a check here? Are things improving/being automated? Things like that)
2. Roster Bidding/Building (What systems are in place?)
3. Morale (Are people angry here all the time. Is it always us vs them? Would most people shake the CEOs hand willingly?)
4. Money or Terms Conditions (Am I better off?
I only worked out the culture of the various companies by speaking to a lot of people over years and years.
Good luck.
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 19th Feb 2011 at 07:59.