More Lack of Military Leadership
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You might have missed the headlines Dick, but the ADF's been on combat ops for 12 of the last 15 years. I'm sure they'll get right onto domestic airspace reform (not sure exactly where that fits on a Mission Essential Task List) once the rest of the World takes a chill pill.
If you want to take shots at leadership, there's plenty more targets out here in civvy street.
Zzzzzing!
If you want to take shots at leadership, there's plenty more targets out here in civvy street.
Zzzzzing!
Thread Starter
Once again, posters completely ignore the fact that other countries like the USA – with about thirty times the amount of traffic in a similar land area – can move to ICAO airspace classifications for their military airspace.
This is a major safety issue, as it shows any pilot what service they will be given and what separation standards apply in the airspace.
Yes, I too have heard that civilian traffic receive a Class C service in our military airspace at places such as Richmond. But why not say this? In fact, I have found the service in Richmond at low level is more similar to Class D.
I put it to all of you once again – anyone in the services is being shockingly let down. If the leadership is so pathetic that it can’t even agree on international airspace classifications, it is obvious it will have difficulty in making decisions where people’s lives are at risk.
I will say it again – with the obvious lack of leadership in the military, I would wonder just how many unnecessary deaths are being caused because of this?
In relation to Richmond, I can remember the days when you were not allowed to get a clearance into the airspace without first phoning some person at the Richmond Air Force Base. I purchased one of the first “007” phones and put it in my helicopter so I could call from the chopper. I think they saw I had out-manoeuvred them and from that point on you could actually use a radio to call in for a clearance.
The telephone requirement remained for something like fifteen years and was only changed when they realised they had been out-manoeuvred. These people are a disaster for their service personnel and it is absolutely imperative that this be exposed.
Any holding I get is completely irrelevant to the major issue.
What I see is people on this thread who desperately want to attempt to keep the status quo. But for some reason the Air Force are not still flying around in DC3’s – they’ve moved ahead.
I’m sure we have all heard the criticism of the joint strike fighter project. Let’s hope that criticism is not true. If it is, our forces will be let down once again by gross incompetence.
This is a major safety issue, as it shows any pilot what service they will be given and what separation standards apply in the airspace.
Yes, I too have heard that civilian traffic receive a Class C service in our military airspace at places such as Richmond. But why not say this? In fact, I have found the service in Richmond at low level is more similar to Class D.
I put it to all of you once again – anyone in the services is being shockingly let down. If the leadership is so pathetic that it can’t even agree on international airspace classifications, it is obvious it will have difficulty in making decisions where people’s lives are at risk.
I will say it again – with the obvious lack of leadership in the military, I would wonder just how many unnecessary deaths are being caused because of this?
In relation to Richmond, I can remember the days when you were not allowed to get a clearance into the airspace without first phoning some person at the Richmond Air Force Base. I purchased one of the first “007” phones and put it in my helicopter so I could call from the chopper. I think they saw I had out-manoeuvred them and from that point on you could actually use a radio to call in for a clearance.
The telephone requirement remained for something like fifteen years and was only changed when they realised they had been out-manoeuvred. These people are a disaster for their service personnel and it is absolutely imperative that this be exposed.
Any holding I get is completely irrelevant to the major issue.
What I see is people on this thread who desperately want to attempt to keep the status quo. But for some reason the Air Force are not still flying around in DC3’s – they’ve moved ahead.
I’m sure we have all heard the criticism of the joint strike fighter project. Let’s hope that criticism is not true. If it is, our forces will be let down once again by gross incompetence.
the fact that other countries like the USA * with about thirty times the amount of traffic in a similar land area
I’m sure we have all heard the criticism of the joint strike fighter project. Let’s hope that criticism is not true.
Thread Starter
It appears Stephen Smith, the Minister for Defence, agrees with me. Read what the Minister says in today’s Sydney Morning Herald via link HERE.
To quote some extracts:
It’s fascinating reading what the Defence Minister himself says about those in charge, whilst I am attacked constantly when I mention that the military hierarchy can’t even allocate international airspace classifications to its airspace.
It’s interesting that Andrew Davies of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute is quoted in the same article as saying,
Yes, once again, another Super Seasprite fiasco. And why would it just be in purchasing equipment? It sounds to me as if the total lack of competent leadership permeates the whole organisation.
Yes, I know there are plenty of good people in our military, but they are obviously the people who never get promoted.
To quote some extracts:
Mr Smith and the Defence Materiel Minister, Jason Clare, refused to condemn the hierarchy of the Defence Materiel Organisation (DMO), which buys everything from salt shakers to submarines, but said there were serious ''institutional'' problems within Defence.
Mr Smith said the LCM Watercraft project had been axed because the boats could not be launched from the amphibious transport ships HMAS Manoora and Kanimbla.
''That was not a project with which Defence covered itself with glory,'' he said. ''At a cost of some $40 million to the Australian taxpayer, this is precisely what we are seeking to avoid in the future.''
It’s interesting that Andrew Davies of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute is quoted in the same article as saying,
''I'm just shaking my head at some of this. Where to begin?'' Dr Davies said. ''Watercraft that don't fit the ships they were supposed to fit, and the ships are being retired anyway?"
Yes, I know there are plenty of good people in our military, but they are obviously the people who never get promoted.
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Dick in two previous threads I have explained to you why the sea sprite farce kicked off and both times you have ignored me.
Once agin your ignorance of the Defence capability management process is demonstrated. *Read your post above - you mention DMO - it is a Defence branch managed by Defence civilians . Serving members are in it yes but not in positions that you think. *In simple terms here is an explanation
Service identifies a need - lets say boats for the amphibs
They research and seek industry feedback
It goes to cabinet for first pass approval
If approved it then becomes a real project an DMO takes over.
The services loose all control basically from then until acceptance into service*
Guess what - the services don't just accept the DMO product - guess what sea sprite is a classic example of that. *It wouldn't pass acceptance.......
Instead of slagging off at Defence service people go away and do some research into the Defence procurement system - here's a tip go to the DMO Website and dowload the handbook.
While you on on google try searching for current ADF operations and see just how good those people and some of the gear they use is going. *
Defence is a much larger organization then a bunch of electronic stores or a magazine. In those organizations you had complete control and were responsible to yourself. *In some ways your time in the aviation industry should have taught you that LARGE. Government organizations are always restricted in what they can do and suffer many outside influences.
When you finished googling above go and search pprune and check out what this forum is about - I bet it doesn't say it's a place to slag of on Defence people.
Once agin your ignorance of the Defence capability management process is demonstrated. *Read your post above - you mention DMO - it is a Defence branch managed by Defence civilians . Serving members are in it yes but not in positions that you think. *In simple terms here is an explanation
Service identifies a need - lets say boats for the amphibs
They research and seek industry feedback
It goes to cabinet for first pass approval
If approved it then becomes a real project an DMO takes over.
The services loose all control basically from then until acceptance into service*
Guess what - the services don't just accept the DMO product - guess what sea sprite is a classic example of that. *It wouldn't pass acceptance.......
Instead of slagging off at Defence service people go away and do some research into the Defence procurement system - here's a tip go to the DMO Website and dowload the handbook.
While you on on google try searching for current ADF operations and see just how good those people and some of the gear they use is going. *
Defence is a much larger organization then a bunch of electronic stores or a magazine. In those organizations you had complete control and were responsible to yourself. *In some ways your time in the aviation industry should have taught you that LARGE. Government organizations are always restricted in what they can do and suffer many outside influences.
When you finished googling above go and search pprune and check out what this forum is about - I bet it doesn't say it's a place to slag of on Defence people.
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I’m sure we have all heard the criticism of the joint strike fighter project. Let’s hope that criticism is not true. If it is, our forces will be let down once again by gross incompetence.
I suppose it's to be expected that you would use sensationalist methods to publicise your causes, Dick, but what's your aim?
If you just want to vent your spleen, well OK, I guess, but you'd probably get more people on side if you didn't resort to silly thread titles like this one.
If you just want to vent your spleen, well OK, I guess, but you'd probably get more people on side if you didn't resort to silly thread titles like this one.
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Yes, I too have heard that civilian traffic receive a Class C service in our military airspace at places such as Richmond. But why not say this?
Two nil, can't wait for the next inept thread.
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Dick,
Hows the Jam business?? Congrats on outsmarting ATC you must feel pretty good about yourself.
Everyone knows the minister is more interested in getting re-elceted than truly managing a defence portfolio. The public is rightly furious of wasted Billions and the minister is going to use major projects which have gone pear shaped to get some brownie points with Joe Public.
Dick at all stages in my flying career including postings to WLM, TVL and ESL i ahve never heard any civvy traffic be delayed or held unneccessarily.
Do you honestly think renaming MILITARY CTR to 'C Class' will genuinely change anything. Espocially at Richmond. Richmond is a control zone, no approach controllers to provide true C Class radar separation. It is some guys in a tower getting random requests from every wicky wong going and every millionaire helicopter pilot trying to get a clearance.
Not sure wether constantly bagging the Military head shed in this forum is going to 'expose' the incompetence you claim.
If all else fails actually read AIP here and find out exactly what you MIL CTR is equivalent to.
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com....r/1_4_1-18.pdf
It is amusing reading your posts Dick, keep it up......so to speak
Hows the Jam business?? Congrats on outsmarting ATC you must feel pretty good about yourself.
Everyone knows the minister is more interested in getting re-elceted than truly managing a defence portfolio. The public is rightly furious of wasted Billions and the minister is going to use major projects which have gone pear shaped to get some brownie points with Joe Public.
Dick at all stages in my flying career including postings to WLM, TVL and ESL i ahve never heard any civvy traffic be delayed or held unneccessarily.
Do you honestly think renaming MILITARY CTR to 'C Class' will genuinely change anything. Espocially at Richmond. Richmond is a control zone, no approach controllers to provide true C Class radar separation. It is some guys in a tower getting random requests from every wicky wong going and every millionaire helicopter pilot trying to get a clearance.
Not sure wether constantly bagging the Military head shed in this forum is going to 'expose' the incompetence you claim.
If all else fails actually read AIP here and find out exactly what you MIL CTR is equivalent to.
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com....r/1_4_1-18.pdf
It is amusing reading your posts Dick, keep it up......so to speak
FLASH MESSAGE
With immediate effect ALL military operations are to CEASE
This includes life saving operations following TC Yasi, flood relief operations and military operations in Afghanistan, Iraq, East Timor and South Pacific Islands.
STAND BY for orders
Orders
SITUATION - We have been holding our Richard for too long (abbreviations permitted for names)
MISSION - We must stop holding our Richard for too long X 2
EXECUTION - Stop holding our Richards
ADMIN - ALL Military operations are to cease. Eyes must be taken off the big picture of operations, life saving missions and assistance to the civil community and fixing lingering admin issues. Our Richard's are tired of being held.
COMMAND - All ideas must come from our Richards. There is no alternative, resistance is futile.
QUESTIONS?
QUESTION?
Note - This post was achieved with my mind closed and shut off to the big issues. I know there are many Richards out there but hell, apparently you can group a bunch of people and paint them all with the same brush.
With immediate effect ALL military operations are to CEASE
This includes life saving operations following TC Yasi, flood relief operations and military operations in Afghanistan, Iraq, East Timor and South Pacific Islands.
STAND BY for orders
Orders
SITUATION - We have been holding our Richard for too long (abbreviations permitted for names)
MISSION - We must stop holding our Richard for too long X 2
EXECUTION - Stop holding our Richards
ADMIN - ALL Military operations are to cease. Eyes must be taken off the big picture of operations, life saving missions and assistance to the civil community and fixing lingering admin issues. Our Richard's are tired of being held.
COMMAND - All ideas must come from our Richards. There is no alternative, resistance is futile.
QUESTIONS?
QUESTION?
Note - This post was achieved with my mind closed and shut off to the big issues. I know there are many Richards out there but hell, apparently you can group a bunch of people and paint them all with the same brush.
Easier solution Dick
When you get these "epiphanies", break them to the pollies & general media first
Then come on here and ask for support for the original premise
That's perhaps how you should have started as Head Honcho of CAA
But you knew better
When you get these "epiphanies", break them to the pollies & general media first
Then come on here and ask for support for the original premise
That's perhaps how you should have started as Head Honcho of CAA
But you knew better
Music Quizmeister
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Dick,
Above on 1 Feb you stated (quote):
I put it to all of you once again – anyone in the services is being shockingly let down. If the leadership is so pathetic that it can’t even agree on international airspace classifications, it is obvious it will have difficulty in making decisions where people’s lives are at risk.
I will say it again – with the obvious lack of leadership in the military, I would wonder just how many unnecessary deaths are being caused because of this?
In light of the death of another soldier (fighting for his country to allow people like you to live in comfort and free speech) i have taken the liberty of printing all your threads here about the shocking lack of military leadersip and faxed then (from the local post office you understand) to both A Current Affair and Today Tonight. I'm sure they will be in touch later today to arrange an interview.
Perhaps you should call them now? You do have them on speed dial don't you? (I've seen you on there often enough quacking on about anything so you can get your face on the tube - not that I watch long you understand).
Oh - and don't thank me for this small service - I'm happy to help you....................
Above on 1 Feb you stated (quote):
I put it to all of you once again – anyone in the services is being shockingly let down. If the leadership is so pathetic that it can’t even agree on international airspace classifications, it is obvious it will have difficulty in making decisions where people’s lives are at risk.
I will say it again – with the obvious lack of leadership in the military, I would wonder just how many unnecessary deaths are being caused because of this?
In light of the death of another soldier (fighting for his country to allow people like you to live in comfort and free speech) i have taken the liberty of printing all your threads here about the shocking lack of military leadersip and faxed then (from the local post office you understand) to both A Current Affair and Today Tonight. I'm sure they will be in touch later today to arrange an interview.
Perhaps you should call them now? You do have them on speed dial don't you? (I've seen you on there often enough quacking on about anything so you can get your face on the tube - not that I watch long you understand).
Oh - and don't thank me for this small service - I'm happy to help you....................
