Tasair Wheels Up
A luvly story Mr 'E',
I can see it now, hanging there....
When I first did my PA-24 endo, the guy teaching said to pull up the u/c telescopic handle EVERY time on Final, and it should reach just under the panel fascia - it did absolutely nothing other than to remind you to do 'something' on each and every final - then continue the PUF's etc
In later 210's we used always look and laugh to the pax "You got one? I got one - I hope you got one too".
Sounds 'trite' I know - but the amazing thing is - its worked for 45yrs or so...
Its just 'something' to do - and if you don't, then you soon think about what is it you've NOT done yet??
Yeah - I know 'trite'...
Cheers
I can see it now, hanging there....
When I first did my PA-24 endo, the guy teaching said to pull up the u/c telescopic handle EVERY time on Final, and it should reach just under the panel fascia - it did absolutely nothing other than to remind you to do 'something' on each and every final - then continue the PUF's etc
In later 210's we used always look and laugh to the pax "You got one? I got one - I hope you got one too".
Sounds 'trite' I know - but the amazing thing is - its worked for 45yrs or so...
Its just 'something' to do - and if you don't, then you soon think about what is it you've NOT done yet??
Yeah - I know 'trite'...
Cheers
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Retracting the undercarriage in a circling approach is a sure way to finish up sitting on the runway the undercarriage retracted. The workload for a SP circling approach in real conditions is high, so why increase the workload any further. An engine failure in the circle with the gear down is no worse than one on final approach.
Complacency can be the root of all evil, trying to land a heavy twin with the gear up as Wally says gives the pilot so many reminders such as non normal power settings, hard to slow to flap speeds etc.
I am reminded of an incident where a newly endorsed PA31 pilot developed the habit of not putting the gear down until turning final. Wise words were given to him about putting the gear down downwind prior to turning base.
Our ace didn't listen and eventually had the occasion to shut a rough running engine down. Arriving in the circuit with 9 pax, he carried out his normal circuit and turning final selected the gear down. At 300' to his horror, the gear was still extending, the result, a very dodgy go around with the gear still trying to extendand then retract. As murphy would have it, the remaining engine had a weak hydraulic pump and more time was needed to get the gear down.
Most turbine aircraft have a gear warning on setting more than take off flap, if the gear is up.
Complacency can be the root of all evil, trying to land a heavy twin with the gear up as Wally says gives the pilot so many reminders such as non normal power settings, hard to slow to flap speeds etc.
I am reminded of an incident where a newly endorsed PA31 pilot developed the habit of not putting the gear down until turning final. Wise words were given to him about putting the gear down downwind prior to turning base.
Our ace didn't listen and eventually had the occasion to shut a rough running engine down. Arriving in the circuit with 9 pax, he carried out his normal circuit and turning final selected the gear down. At 300' to his horror, the gear was still extending, the result, a very dodgy go around with the gear still trying to extendand then retract. As murphy would have it, the remaining engine had a weak hydraulic pump and more time was needed to get the gear down.
Most turbine aircraft have a gear warning on setting more than take off flap, if the gear is up.
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NO INQUIRY!!!...The poor bastard!!...That is cruel..at least an enquiry may have provided something for him to present at the show cause!!.
Now he's screwed, already "CONFESSED"....open and shut case!!...Inspector PLOD, sorry FOI...arrest that man!!....STRICT LIABILITY!!!>>>" Heinous CRIME!!".. ( A Vision)...Judge Deeds Court
" You have pleaded GUILTY to reckless endangement of the premier of Tasmania's life, in that you with aforthought and malice did on the eighth day of December 2010 place the life of the premier of Tasmania and attending media representatives in mortal danger.You maliciously and recklessly ommitted to select the undercarriage into the down position!! a crime that has occured all to frequently, especially by the prosecuting authority, who unfortunately are exempt from prosecution.
Never the Less,as an example to others, I Therefore feel duty bound to apply the maximum sentence as a warning to others contempaiting the same crime of forgetfullness..
It is therefore the sentence of this court that you serve a minimum of eight years of penal servitude and a fine of fifty thousand dollars....Take him down!! ( Thats the maximum..even pedafiles dont get that)
Now he's screwed, already "CONFESSED"....open and shut case!!...Inspector PLOD, sorry FOI...arrest that man!!....STRICT LIABILITY!!!>>>" Heinous CRIME!!".. ( A Vision)...Judge Deeds Court
" You have pleaded GUILTY to reckless endangement of the premier of Tasmania's life, in that you with aforthought and malice did on the eighth day of December 2010 place the life of the premier of Tasmania and attending media representatives in mortal danger.You maliciously and recklessly ommitted to select the undercarriage into the down position!! a crime that has occured all to frequently, especially by the prosecuting authority, who unfortunately are exempt from prosecution.
Never the Less,as an example to others, I Therefore feel duty bound to apply the maximum sentence as a warning to others contempaiting the same crime of forgetfullness..
It is therefore the sentence of this court that you serve a minimum of eight years of penal servitude and a fine of fifty thousand dollars....Take him down!! ( Thats the maximum..even pedafiles dont get that)
Don't know what your taking Thornbird but you better lay off it a bit !!
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Jeez Kunu,...That was quick..I totally lost the bet...how long it would take for threat to arrive!!...dont worry mate..you and the rest of your cohorts time may just be numbered..Inshalla!!
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Wheels up landings.
About the only way Wheels Up landings will be totally avoided is if the weld the gear down, permanently. Not only low time pilots do it, even a Mirage pilot with lots of experience did it at Avalon, or maybe Tullamarine, many years ago. Just did not lower the gear, no aircraft malfunction involved.
Last edited by Old Fella; 9th Dec 2010 at 22:07.
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Hey, I remember reading a John Deakin article about how he cleverly did a nil thrust approach into SFO I think and almost became the first b747 pilot to do a wheels up
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For those of you who think he's courageous for admitting fault, what else was he going to do? 
Admiting a mistake and/or knowing you've made a mistake and trying to hide it are two very different decisions processes.
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Not only a Mirage chappy but a couple of DCA pilots in a government HS125 at Laverton (I think) managed to pull it up real quick after landing.
Story goes that they were doing circuits when a Mirage wanted to depart which necessitated rigging catch netting at the end of the runway. Said HS125 does a go around to facilitate the departure and retracts the Dunlops. The rest is just embarrassment as the check list wasn't started from scratch but where the last one had been left off.
For those too young to remember, DCA was the esteemed precursor of CASA but when they had some real toys to play with.
Story goes that they were doing circuits when a Mirage wanted to depart which necessitated rigging catch netting at the end of the runway. Said HS125 does a go around to facilitate the departure and retracts the Dunlops. The rest is just embarrassment as the check list wasn't started from scratch but where the last one had been left off.
For those too young to remember, DCA was the esteemed precursor of CASA but when they had some real toys to play with.
Hi Plovett,
Didn't those guys pull the circuit breaker because the horn was making too much noise..??
They were doing 'quick succession' circuits, or something like that...and....they both forgot...
Seem to remember some 'controversy' like that..??
I'll bet neither have done that again...since..
Cheers
Didn't those guys pull the circuit breaker because the horn was making too much noise..??
They were doing 'quick succession' circuits, or something like that...and....they both forgot...
Seem to remember some 'controversy' like that..??
I'll bet neither have done that again...since..
Cheers
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HS125 wheels up
was at Avalon. The crew exited the aircraft promptly but were seen to climb back inside "to collect their coats." The gear lever was found in the down position.
Last edited by uncle8; 9th Dec 2010 at 11:22. Reason: spelling
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thorny bird
Sorry TB,it will never happen to me given I don't drive plank's I fly helicopters with skids,Game over.
Hook,line and sinker ,well swolled !
Every one makes mistakes and I reckon this poor individual will never get caught again.
Hook,line and sinker ,well swolled !
Every one makes mistakes and I reckon this poor individual will never get caught again.
Folks,
Actually DCA and descendants have a long history of gear up landing.
As I recall, the NSW Region C-310 had just been rebuilt after a gear up problem, flew to an airshow ( was it Lismore??) with anybody who was anybody at Balls Head Rd, and landed gear up.
One of the Gulfstream 1000 ( Turbo Commander 695) was gutz'd twice, in WA from memory. The famous Merlin incident at Mangalore, the gear was down, but only partly after a very heavy landing.
Probably a few more I have missed, Dove at Camden??
Tootle pip!!
Actually DCA and descendants have a long history of gear up landing.
As I recall, the NSW Region C-310 had just been rebuilt after a gear up problem, flew to an airshow ( was it Lismore??) with anybody who was anybody at Balls Head Rd, and landed gear up.
One of the Gulfstream 1000 ( Turbo Commander 695) was gutz'd twice, in WA from memory. The famous Merlin incident at Mangalore, the gear was down, but only partly after a very heavy landing.
Probably a few more I have missed, Dove at Camden??
Tootle pip!!
I know the individual involved quite well and also know how easy it can be to get things the wrong way around when inexperienced on type.
I had the opposite problem to what most are describing here: I had to circle for a landing once very soon after departure and on late downwind went to put the gear down and found it was already down when in my mind it was supposed to be up. I guess inexperience combined with the fact that most of the circling I had done in training was on one engine meant that I was unable to pick up on the performance not being as it should have been.
Once one has a bit of time on type though, I think that after the checks get missed for whatever reason one not being able to pick up on the numbers not being where they should be shows a major lack of situational awareness.
Perhaps not all types have as obvious a performance differential with wheels up/down as a pa31, but another similar example in my mind is the Emirates incident in Melbourne.
It just boggles me that one would not pick up on the numbers and subsequent performance being that different to standard more quickly, especially by someone with significant experience on type.
I had the opposite problem to what most are describing here: I had to circle for a landing once very soon after departure and on late downwind went to put the gear down and found it was already down when in my mind it was supposed to be up. I guess inexperience combined with the fact that most of the circling I had done in training was on one engine meant that I was unable to pick up on the performance not being as it should have been.
Once one has a bit of time on type though, I think that after the checks get missed for whatever reason one not being able to pick up on the numbers not being where they should be shows a major lack of situational awareness.
Perhaps not all types have as obvious a performance differential with wheels up/down as a pa31, but another similar example in my mind is the Emirates incident in Melbourne.
It just boggles me that one would not pick up on the numbers and subsequent performance being that different to standard more quickly, especially by someone with significant experience on type.
How does Tasair go about recovering the aircraft from King Island?
Do they pull the wings off and put it in a container and take it to Moorabbin or do they fit new props and engines and fly it off the island?
Do they pull the wings off and put it in a container and take it to Moorabbin or do they fit new props and engines and fly it off the island?
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I think sometimes some people are destined for gear up landings. I know of a case of a pilot who did a wheels up landing. When questioned about whether there was a gear warning horn, the pilot replied "There was a horn but i disregarded it because i thought it was a faulty stall warning horn"!
The manufacturer cannot build "common sense" into the aircraft, so sometimes all the bells,whistles and horns in the world wont stop humans errors!
The manufacturer cannot build "common sense" into the aircraft, so sometimes all the bells,whistles and horns in the world wont stop humans errors!
When you live....
The manufacturer cannot build "common sense" into the aircraft, so sometimes all the bells,whistles and horns in the world wont stop humans errors!
YouTube - Gear Up Landing
UTR
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I remember a talk by a psychologist from Farnborough who had been involved in accident investigation. He described how a crew had made a wheels up landing, and the captain had remarked "there's something wrong with the brakes."
I never did a wheels up, but did scare myself a couple of times.
I found that it's smart to keep things simple. It is possible to miss things, and checklists are fine if you do them properly. Being human we sometimes do not.
A trigger that is separate from the normal checklists, that will save you on that busy day, when you miss something is
IF THERE IS A RUNWAY AHEAD, CHECK WHEELS.
You do it even if you are in a 172,or if you are the ace of the base in a super jet hummelflinger. Soon it becomes a habbit, and it's no load to carry.
I never did a wheels up, but did scare myself a couple of times.
I found that it's smart to keep things simple. It is possible to miss things, and checklists are fine if you do them properly. Being human we sometimes do not.
A trigger that is separate from the normal checklists, that will save you on that busy day, when you miss something is
IF THERE IS A RUNWAY AHEAD, CHECK WHEELS.
You do it even if you are in a 172,or if you are the ace of the base in a super jet hummelflinger. Soon it becomes a habbit, and it's no load to carry.
