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GA security

Old 27th Oct 2010, 05:10
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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May I suggest you familiarise yourself with the risk assessment process. If after that you are still of the opinion that security measures acheives nothing more than tokenism, yoiu should avail yourself to the various industry consultative conferences and workshops that take place. You will be given the opportunity to put your views forward, have them minuted and where appropriate and justified, have them actioned by the department. Having an anonymous sook on PPRuNe though doesn't count.
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 05:20
  #22 (permalink)  
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So somebody getting on an airliner with a weapon is a lower risk than a pilot who has his own aircraft on the field?

"various industry consultative conferences and workshops" bewdy one that, like they take any notice.

Are you an industry consultant and for a huge fee has made some of these recommendations?

May I suggest you familiarise yourself with the real world and have a look what actually goes on.

Having an anonymous sook on PPRuNe though doesn't count.
Today 09:11
I notice you didn't leave your name and address, too sooky?
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 07:20
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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May I suggest you familiarise yourself with the real world and have a look what actually goes on.


Are you an industry consultant and for a huge fee has made some of these recommendations?
No but I am an industry professional who deals on a daily basis with all aspects of aviation compliance including security.
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 07:56
  #24 (permalink)  
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compliance
Say's it all really.
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 09:41
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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May I suggest you familiarise yourself with the risk assessment process.
Out of interest, do the relevant departments risk assess this stuff or is it all done using the worst case scenario principle? I think a lot of people in the industry get the impression that the regional screening, safety pin banning etc is primarily a governmental butt-covering / PR exercise rather than a measured response to a perceived threat. I'd love to be wrong, but that's certainly the prevailing opinion around here.

The increasing divide between airport security and other infrastructure security (such as ports, government buildings and shopping centres) is annoying and frustrating aviation workers. I realise ASIO et al are not in the habit of releasing their information, but given the (fortunate) lack of incidents and few terrorism related arrests since 9/11 people are starting to get sceptical, particularly as it the security measures are getting increasingly worse even though the risk level has remained the same (publically at least).

There are many ways to create public carnage that don't involve aircraft.
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Old 28th Oct 2010, 02:16
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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I'm a member of the local Memo club, and the magnetic strip on my membership card opens the gate for me to get in. I just wave my wallet near the lock, and it opens.
But I guess that is too hard for aviation.
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Old 29th Oct 2010, 02:55
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Get over it fellas, and look on the bright side.

At least our aircraft are reasonably safe now locked away behind a security fence, at overnight stops.

Stops all the yobbo vandals that used to get about.
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Old 29th Oct 2010, 06:28
  #28 (permalink)  
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Stops all the yobbo vandals that used to get about.
That's the point it doesn't, anybody can gain access.
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Old 29th Oct 2010, 09:01
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Aviation security is actually pretty good!

After boarding the Spirit of Tasmania (note: this is a ship) around half an hour ago, I was subject to a "level 1" security scan as I left the vehicle area. I removed all my coins, wallet and phone from my pockets and was scanned with a magic wand. To have the scan done I had to hold my arms out away from my sides. To do this I had to put my bag on the ground that theoretically could have contained my AK47, mini14, 4 semi auto pistols and home made bombs. I then asked why my bag wasn't scanned to which he replied "this is only a level one scan on ones person" Tell what the istrye point of a level one scan and how does it enhance maritime security?

What a joke !!! (not to mention a waste of time and money)
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Old 29th Oct 2010, 10:11
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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May I suggest you familiarise yourself with the risk assessment process.
May I suggest you familiarise yourself with the cost-benefit analysis process.

Business speak
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Old 29th Oct 2010, 11:12
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Cooma: Went down there some months back and wanted to pop into town for lunch. To get out of the airfield one person has to swipe any card from a wallet with a magnetic strip (I think there is a phone no. if you haven't got a c/c). "Click", gate unlocks and the card reader on the exterior will remember your details for when you come back. Supposedly....

Sure enough, we come back 2.5 hours later and the reader doesn't know us. There's that phone number, I guess. Or then again, why not just climb up on the window sill alongside the fence and just hop the fence?!

What would you do? What would Osama's mate do?

We sure didn't want to stuff around ringing a number and waiting 45-60 mins to come sort it out. And Osama's mate really just could NOT be less interested in YCOM. It's true!
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Old 29th Oct 2010, 11:31
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Checkboard, I dislike corporate wankwords as much as the next guy and if that's how I came across then I guess that's my fault. The point which I am trying to make is that what some percieve as gaping holes in security are a deliberate graduated response based on a localised risk context. Do you really think that the same level of security is required at a regional airport with a couple of turbo prop RPT flts a day or even a week, as what is required for one of the major 11 airports around the country?

On one hand we have pilots saying ASICs, fences, screening etc is all too much, then others who say that the lower standards for certain airports make security a joke. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I believe the graduated response to be appropriate. Anyone who thinks that their local airport has major flaws in security can contact the OTS. I am sure they will gladly take your opinion on board and start pushing for increased security at the lower end of town. But as has been said before, it won't be the government that pays for it.
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Old 29th Oct 2010, 11:52
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I guess the question a lot of people at the CTFR airports are asking is, what is the actual risk to their facility? There may of course be a risk, but if so the department has been really lax about publicizing it. Given the number of charming, well rounded individuals (not) that work for the D of I that is hardly surprising (I know at least one of them was drummed out of the army for bad people skills, which says it all really ).

Managing risk at a government level requires constant PR about the risk. AQIS did this particularly well during the UK foot and mouth disease outbreak, where pax would stand in line for two hours to be searched and thank the inspectors for their vigilance. That was due to a concerted media campaign educating Australians about the adverse impact F&M would have on our economy and the public were overwhelmingly supportive about personal inconvenience for the greater good.

If the D of I wants aviation workers to take their enhanced measures seriously, they need to tell them why. Otherwise it comes across as beaurocracy gone mad and power tripping by government wankers. Additionally, one of the best defences against aviation terrorism is aviation workers, who number in the tens of thousands across the nation's major airports and can see and report more than the largest government department. The vast majority are also very anti-terrorism and only too happy to help the cause. Alienate them and the department neuters one of their best intelligence sources, and alienating them is all they seem to have achieved since the latest departmental rebirth.

Having had a certain amount to do with the new department, I agree with YPJT that in the event of complaints all they will do is increase measures across the board until everyone has to suffer like the major airports. In the meantime, you are free to drive whatever you like into your local footy ground / Westfield / entertainment centre without fear or favour, because despite the tens of thousands of people who congregate in these places daily, they don't seem to count as 'infrastructure'.
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Old 2nd Nov 2010, 05:23
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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geez, we can't win here in the Vegas of the West! Just a few months ago there were stories and criticism in quite a few of the national media outlets about lax security and the gate codes being available from airside and now people are having their say when measures are taken to protect the gate codes.....

Dubbo airport PIN taped to security gate | Herald Sun

Cec, I saw your letter to the editor in the local rag,and you made a (valid IMHO) point about lack of screening of passengers.then again,how often are passengers at your home airport of Armidale screened ? About as often as Dubbo passengers are.The arrangements in placein Dubbo today, while far from perfect, are as a direct consequence of the above newspaper article.

You weren't travelling with the helicopter driver we refused to let out of the terminal last week by any chance? My understanding is that he is also from Armidale.Dubbo City Council have given us very strict instructions if people other than our passengers want us to let them out of the terminal gates: we can't do it, even for people we personally know and have to ring the council airport manager to let them out.

Finally, why didn't yoo ring me to say yoo were coming through? You owe me a lunch!
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Old 2nd Nov 2010, 07:30
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Between East and West Poles.
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I visited an Australian General Aviation airport in a major city some 15 months ago. On the inside of the gate was taped the four numbers needed to get access. Only needed a mirror to read them.
Never been back, maybe things have been tightened up.
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Old 2nd Nov 2010, 09:20
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Never been back, maybe things have been tightened up.
Nope! Nothing has changed.
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Old 2nd Nov 2010, 09:27
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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I visited not one but Two security controlled airports.

At one we had to climb the fence for my girlfriend to find a bush to pee in.

At another the security fence ended one hundred metres from the terminal.

Then there are the infinite number of hangars that have a door one side of the fence that open onto the tarmac.
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Old 2nd Nov 2010, 11:03
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Let's Face it there is NO security so why debate the point, I prefer to just keep it secret! ^^;
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