Ansett and the Fokker Friendship
The Ken G.... story is absolutely correct, as my father was the captain on that flight and I recall hime re counting it at each reunion.
Funnily enought no one got into "hot water" over it.
Guess it was time when political correctness hadn't taken oveth world.
Also my father and Ken G use to sing the F27 check list - apparently neither could sing and the flight attendants would cringe.
Happier days.
Funnily enought no one got into "hot water" over it.
Guess it was time when political correctness hadn't taken oveth world.
Also my father and Ken G use to sing the F27 check list - apparently neither could sing and the flight attendants would cringe.
Happier days.
Urban Myth ?
Was it true that some guys did their commands on the F27, then after a while, having got being the captain out of their system, returned to their home bases as FO's, where their seniority, pay, and lifestyle returned to normal!
Capt Fathom
There were a number of AN F27 Captains in the 1980's who returned to F/O status on jets when there was a downturn in the F27 flying. They were not disadvantaged financially.
There were a number of AN F27 Captains in the 1980's who returned to F/O status on jets when there was a downturn in the F27 flying. They were not disadvantaged financially.
tinpis - there were several!
The "Bypass Pay" system ensured you got payed for the type your seniority qualified you for if you were asked to stay back on the F.27. Hence some of the more senior F.27 checkers were actually being payed as B737 Check Captains while the management types were being paid as B727 Checkers.
If you listened carefully when engaging the starter, behind the great clunk of the solenoids engaging you could hear the "ker-ching!" of a cash register.
Is presume this is what you meant?
The "Bypass Pay" system ensured you got payed for the type your seniority qualified you for if you were asked to stay back on the F.27. Hence some of the more senior F.27 checkers were actually being payed as B737 Check Captains while the management types were being paid as B727 Checkers.
If you listened carefully when engaging the starter, behind the great clunk of the solenoids engaging you could hear the "ker-ching!" of a cash register.
Is presume this is what you meant?
B772
In the 80's (as I recall) a B767 FO was paid more than a F.27 Line Captain. So when a certain F.27 "ace captain" was demoted back to FO (do the phrases "low flying", "beat up" and Alice Springs" ring a bell?) his so-called punishment was to get a higher salary!
In the 80's (as I recall) a B767 FO was paid more than a F.27 Line Captain. So when a certain F.27 "ace captain" was demoted back to FO (do the phrases "low flying", "beat up" and Alice Springs" ring a bell?) his so-called punishment was to get a higher salary!
Silly Old Git
Must mention the nice AN Doctor. They gave us old buggers a medical before the F27 course hoping to thin us out us there. Doc asked me what sport was I keen on. I replied I jogged a bit.He looked over my 100kg frame and said "Hmm...we'll put down horse racing shall we?"
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Ah but back in Madang in the olden days, you were sylph like Tinny.
One of the interesting phenomena in the Mouse was the number of 'Call me Captains' in the subsidiaries.
Blokes who were SENIOR captains in tinpot concerns were right up themselves, yet the senior Jet blokes, except for a few Melbournians (and they are a different breed anyway) in the mainlines knew they'd 'made it' and didn't need to strut and demand respect.
The subs had some real interesting captains too who were a bit of a law unto themselves and did things their way. Yeah! I know both TAA and Ansett had one each of them too.
A mate told me stories of one old F27 commander who had his own letdowns out in western NSW. "Bugger the letdown charts leave them in ya bag son!"
He had checked out the lay of the country and did his own NDB runway approaches.
'When ya've flown through flack and had coves shootin' bullets at ya son ya get a strong sense of survival and common sense".
Musta worked because they didn't crash in the Mouse.
The FOs had to have a sort of library of "How this bloke wants things done" that he raked up from his memory when he signed on.
The old Bast*rds flew THEIR way every leg unless they were being checked, then without ever practising, flew beautiful by the book check flights.
We learned a lot from all their little ways though, which came in handy when little surprises caught us out.
SOPs... safe but prooduce monkeys...Those who've flown aeroplanes with interesting colour schemes in the lower latitudes can tell ya stories.
One of the interesting phenomena in the Mouse was the number of 'Call me Captains' in the subsidiaries.
Blokes who were SENIOR captains in tinpot concerns were right up themselves, yet the senior Jet blokes, except for a few Melbournians (and they are a different breed anyway) in the mainlines knew they'd 'made it' and didn't need to strut and demand respect.
The subs had some real interesting captains too who were a bit of a law unto themselves and did things their way. Yeah! I know both TAA and Ansett had one each of them too.
A mate told me stories of one old F27 commander who had his own letdowns out in western NSW. "Bugger the letdown charts leave them in ya bag son!"
He had checked out the lay of the country and did his own NDB runway approaches.
'When ya've flown through flack and had coves shootin' bullets at ya son ya get a strong sense of survival and common sense".
Musta worked because they didn't crash in the Mouse.
The FOs had to have a sort of library of "How this bloke wants things done" that he raked up from his memory when he signed on.
The old Bast*rds flew THEIR way every leg unless they were being checked, then without ever practising, flew beautiful by the book check flights.
We learned a lot from all their little ways though, which came in handy when little surprises caught us out.
SOPs... safe but prooduce monkeys...Those who've flown aeroplanes with interesting colour schemes in the lower latitudes can tell ya stories.
Silly Old Git
Casino on a veeeery soggy day skipper with a lifetime on the Frugal (MT)says "Just keep flying the approach mate".
Well this old mate been in a few soggy situations himself before and I'm buggered if I see anything resembling land-ho.
Needless to say he takes control, points her a bit and we roll on and unlock the props.
Pax waiting at the gate said "I knew it was old M...we wouldn't be stuck here "
Well this old mate been in a few soggy situations himself before and I'm buggered if I see anything resembling land-ho.
Needless to say he takes control, points her a bit and we roll on and unlock the props.
Pax waiting at the gate said "I knew it was old M...we wouldn't be stuck here "
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Was there much improvement in performance between the F27 and F50. I would hazard a guess that the PW in the F50 would have a better fuel sgr than the Dart. How much difference was there in the weights of the two engines?
Silly Old Git
F50 should have worked. Maybe not the correct engine yet? As someone pointed out way better hull than 340 and they didnt have to tool up for it. They would have Cloggies that could build them in their sleep.
Thread Starter
What routes did Connellan's operate the F-27 on?
Imagine the PC police today if Captain KenG made that comment in front of a FA!!!
Must be a bit more to be told about the low flying incident at Alice Springs?
Imagine the PC police today if Captain KenG made that comment in front of a FA!!!
Must be a bit more to be told about the low flying incident at Alice Springs?
Moderator
Must be a bit more to be told about the low flying incident at Alice Springs?
As I recall,
(a) the captain involved on the flight conducted a lowish pass along the runway, it being his last flight on the Mouse prior to moving back onto the jet fleet.
(b) a transit 727 (?) captain took exception to the pass and advised management
(c) the captain involved was put back into the RHS on the jet fleet as penance for a period and then transitioned to the 727 as captain after his time in the sin bin
(d) I suspect that the captain involved was a little put out on the basis that others had done other things not terribly dissimilar without penalty
(e) the captain involved went on to an interesting career O/S post-89 and retired to Gippsland not all that long ago with an interest in occasional consulting work
Probably, apart from the observation that he might have done things differently had he possessed a crystal ball on the day, the incident is pretty well ancient history and not all that exciting in the overall scheme of things. I can recall a number of flights with other captains during my initial time in AN wherein far more "interesting" things were done ...
I guess, though, so long as folk don't go out of their way to identify the chap, the tale remains amongst the Mouse legends. I'm equally sure that he would just as soon the matter disappear into the aether and never again resurface ...
Not having seen him for some years, I ran into him a few months ago and we had a very pleasant hour or two over coffee reminiscing about this and that.
As I recall,
(a) the captain involved on the flight conducted a lowish pass along the runway, it being his last flight on the Mouse prior to moving back onto the jet fleet.
(b) a transit 727 (?) captain took exception to the pass and advised management
(c) the captain involved was put back into the RHS on the jet fleet as penance for a period and then transitioned to the 727 as captain after his time in the sin bin
(d) I suspect that the captain involved was a little put out on the basis that others had done other things not terribly dissimilar without penalty
(e) the captain involved went on to an interesting career O/S post-89 and retired to Gippsland not all that long ago with an interest in occasional consulting work
Probably, apart from the observation that he might have done things differently had he possessed a crystal ball on the day, the incident is pretty well ancient history and not all that exciting in the overall scheme of things. I can recall a number of flights with other captains during my initial time in AN wherein far more "interesting" things were done ...
I guess, though, so long as folk don't go out of their way to identify the chap, the tale remains amongst the Mouse legends. I'm equally sure that he would just as soon the matter disappear into the aether and never again resurface ...
Not having seen him for some years, I ran into him a few months ago and we had a very pleasant hour or two over coffee reminiscing about this and that.
Again, this is based on recollection, but it differs considerably from JT’s version!
(a)the captain involved on the flight conducted a lowish pass along the runway, it being his last flight on the Mouse prior to moving back onto the jet fleet.
The “lowish pass” also incorporated at least one steep turn where the wingtip was reported by the entire AN B727 crew as “being at most six feet above the ground”. It was certainly NOT scheduled as his last flight as a F.27 Captain as he was only checked out 12 months before.
(b)a transit 727 (?) captain took exception to the pass and advised management
Frankly the crews of both (AN and TAA) B727’s were appalled, but the AN Captain had the decency to wait until “the ace” had taxied in before telling him to his face that he was about to report him…
(c)the captain involved was put back into the RHS on the jet fleet as penance for a period and then transitioned to the 727 as captain after his time in the sin bin
True in part. He was downgraded for 5 years (he went to the B767), but for the aggressiveness of the AFAP he would have been fired on the spot. He was still an FO when the 1989 dispute erupted. My understanding was that he went to a ME operator but failed to get a command there too.
(d) I suspect that the captain involved was a little put out on the basis that others had done other things not terribly dissimilar without penalty
Sorry JT – rubbish. He would think this, but while there was the odd misdemeanor on “Track Trips”, there was nothing approaching just how dangerous and stupid this one was. He also got a controller fired over this episode as the controller (being a drinking buddy of “the ace”) hadn’t reported the episode.
(a)the captain involved on the flight conducted a lowish pass along the runway, it being his last flight on the Mouse prior to moving back onto the jet fleet.
The “lowish pass” also incorporated at least one steep turn where the wingtip was reported by the entire AN B727 crew as “being at most six feet above the ground”. It was certainly NOT scheduled as his last flight as a F.27 Captain as he was only checked out 12 months before.
(b)a transit 727 (?) captain took exception to the pass and advised management
Frankly the crews of both (AN and TAA) B727’s were appalled, but the AN Captain had the decency to wait until “the ace” had taxied in before telling him to his face that he was about to report him…
(c)the captain involved was put back into the RHS on the jet fleet as penance for a period and then transitioned to the 727 as captain after his time in the sin bin
True in part. He was downgraded for 5 years (he went to the B767), but for the aggressiveness of the AFAP he would have been fired on the spot. He was still an FO when the 1989 dispute erupted. My understanding was that he went to a ME operator but failed to get a command there too.
(d) I suspect that the captain involved was a little put out on the basis that others had done other things not terribly dissimilar without penalty
Sorry JT – rubbish. He would think this, but while there was the odd misdemeanor on “Track Trips”, there was nothing approaching just how dangerous and stupid this one was. He also got a controller fired over this episode as the controller (being a drinking buddy of “the ace”) hadn’t reported the episode.
Thread Starter
What happened to the Ansett F-27 skipper that held station over a ditched aircraft in Bass Strait in the early 1980's. It was on a Four Corners story about a delay in rescuing the two pilots?
On the Mildura -Melbourne run did TAA use Murray Valley Airlines Bandeirante or Sunstate(Mildura) Shorts S330 to compete gainst the F-27?
On the Mildura -Melbourne run did TAA use Murray Valley Airlines Bandeirante or Sunstate(Mildura) Shorts S330 to compete gainst the F-27?
RV went onto the B737 shortly afterward, then resigned to go into financial planning a few months later. I'm still in contact; he's well, successful and doesn't miss aviation at all!.
Moderator
but it differs considerably from JT’s version!
Guess we're all getting a tad older and it was a long time ago .. certainly, I don't warrant that my recollection on the matter would stand up to rigorous scrutiny in minute detail.
However a couple of your comments don't sit well with my enfeebled memory ... and much of the minutiae is not worth dredging up.
(a) He was still an FO when the 1989 dispute erupted.
I was on a different Type at the time so the memory might not be in order. However, I recall his going off on his command line check (having come in on that aircraft paxing ?) and don't recall his not having been successful - that, certainly, would have been a good time prior to the dispute.
(b) but while there was the odd misdemeanor on “Track Trips”, there was nothing approaching just how dangerous and stupid this one was.
Appears that you were much closer to the history than I was at the time. Certainly, I can recall some rather silly antics on the Mouse when I was too young and inexperienced to put my views as forcefully as I would do later on with a few more hours under the belt.
Not trying to minimise the inappropriateness of the event - it was quite silly in the overall scheme of things. The chap concerned, I have no doubt, would agree with that given the wisdom of years and the immediate consequences at the time.
We all have skeletons hidden in back of the closet and we all, hopefully, learn by our own mistakes and those of others as we pass along the career road ..
Guess we're all getting a tad older and it was a long time ago .. certainly, I don't warrant that my recollection on the matter would stand up to rigorous scrutiny in minute detail.
However a couple of your comments don't sit well with my enfeebled memory ... and much of the minutiae is not worth dredging up.
(a) He was still an FO when the 1989 dispute erupted.
I was on a different Type at the time so the memory might not be in order. However, I recall his going off on his command line check (having come in on that aircraft paxing ?) and don't recall his not having been successful - that, certainly, would have been a good time prior to the dispute.
(b) but while there was the odd misdemeanor on “Track Trips”, there was nothing approaching just how dangerous and stupid this one was.
Appears that you were much closer to the history than I was at the time. Certainly, I can recall some rather silly antics on the Mouse when I was too young and inexperienced to put my views as forcefully as I would do later on with a few more hours under the belt.
Not trying to minimise the inappropriateness of the event - it was quite silly in the overall scheme of things. The chap concerned, I have no doubt, would agree with that given the wisdom of years and the immediate consequences at the time.
We all have skeletons hidden in back of the closet and we all, hopefully, learn by our own mistakes and those of others as we pass along the career road ..
JT, you're so right about relying on memory! More straining of brain cells later:
(a) He was still an FO when the 1989 dispute erupted.
In retrospect simple mathematics would suggest that I might be wrong. The incident occurred in 1983 (?), so that the 5 years’ ban would have expired prior to the dispute. I have no recollection of him gaining a command again or not.
As for the remainder, I've PM'd you...
(a) He was still an FO when the 1989 dispute erupted.
In retrospect simple mathematics would suggest that I might be wrong. The incident occurred in 1983 (?), so that the 5 years’ ban would have expired prior to the dispute. I have no recollection of him gaining a command again or not.
As for the remainder, I've PM'd you...
MEMORIES!
