Ansett and the Fokker Friendship
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: BRISBANE QLD AUSTRALIA
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Sorry, that should have been Dora-9. Slip of the pen as they say.
MMO/MMS Max BRwt 19,731, MMV/MMR 20,410 as was most of the FN. series A/C)
Last time I poled an F27 was to Duxford UK to display, after not seeing one for nigh on 8 years. Scared the S..T out of me.....
Regards ...............
MMO/MMS Max BRwt 19,731, MMV/MMR 20,410 as was most of the FN. series A/C)
Last time I poled an F27 was to Duxford UK to display, after not seeing one for nigh on 8 years. Scared the S..T out of me.....
Regards ...............
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Dora-9, yes rated coverage of navaids with a time/distance factor as I recall.
FL200 was an effort southbound, had to make it by "Walker??", fly level, get some extra kts, up a bit and so on. Allowed us to go via NWN rather than WIT/ abeam PHE for the fix. Bloddy DCA were becoming anal in some areas as the DC-3 was fading out
better than DC-3 just the same.
FL200 was an effort southbound, had to make it by "Walker??", fly level, get some extra kts, up a bit and so on. Allowed us to go via NWN rather than WIT/ abeam PHE for the fix. Bloddy DCA were becoming anal in some areas as the DC-3 was fading out
better than DC-3 just the same.
Donder, I was going to respond with "where the hell are you getting your numbers from?", but a cup of tea and a lie down later, plus further research indicates we're both correct!
Bulletin 367, issued on 22.12.1983 increased the weights for VH-FNO, FNP, FNQ, FNT, FNU, FNV, FNW, MMO & MMS (i.e. all the surviving -200/-400/-600's). The MBRW became 20410 kgs. I think this brought them up to the -500 figures.
Prior to this, the MBRW was 19731 for all of them (excluding the -500's) was 19,731 kgs.
Cheers!
In my defence, I left the fleet in September 1983.
Bulletin 367, issued on 22.12.1983 increased the weights for VH-FNO, FNP, FNQ, FNT, FNU, FNV, FNW, MMO & MMS (i.e. all the surviving -200/-400/-600's). The MBRW became 20410 kgs. I think this brought them up to the -500 figures.
Prior to this, the MBRW was 19731 for all of them (excluding the -500's) was 19,731 kgs.
Cheers!
In my defence, I left the fleet in September 1983.
The F27 might have been fun as a Capt but as an FO what memories! One certain Capt would park with the wing tip over a drain to make it next to impossible to get the pitot cover off with that stupid stick thingy. (He found it amusing apparently). Dragging out that ground cart on a cold winter morning, manual load sheets, securing the webbing etc all while his Lordship had a fag and a yarn with the locals up against the boundary fence. The check flights where a nightmare having to know all the drain holes and such vital things as to where is the primary heat exchanger and which intake is the secondary. (sorry Dora-9 you were ok). Then the overnights, under the staircase for the boy in Mildura with the ceiling the stair-well in reverse. Every time someone went up or down it was like an earthquake. I always seemed to be the FO on Initial Command checkouts with the tension level akin to having dinner with the ex-wife. I must admit the 'track trips' were fun though. Apart from the hearing loss I would do it all again, we're a strange lot.
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I'm with you George, although the weather was better in Brissy.
I didn't particularly like the Mouse. I came from DC-3s. In really thinking about it I didn't like the aeroplane it's systems and it's being operated like a jet rather than an older generation prop aircraft that it was.
There was the fun of hoping old Rexy would stuff up one day with his cutting both engines as he left the runway and coasted in, but he was an 'old and bold' and always needed the brakes to stop her.
Ron C. when he was a FO, tried just sneaking a tiny bit of brake on to fix the old bugg*r but Rex was onto it straight away and told him to get his feet off the brakes.
There were many fun activities like landing on the grass at Maryborough and Bundy just for fun. Five hundred feet up the beach and over Green Island Being the only airliner that could take off at Brissy and all ports north in cyclones and having to fly in them.
Flying in cyclones wasn't particularly bad; lots of drift and flight planning for interesting alternates but it wasn't overly rough. One topped at about 6500 feet and we cruised way above it.
The pleasure was being with the blokes who were all uptight on getting their command and watching them relax and get naughty as their experience increased.
They taught me heaps and slowly I stopped dying the death before and during checks from ostmosis.
Half them smoked like chimneys in the cockpit and all except Rexy mucked in doing the job.
Rexy left the lot to the F O specially on overnights when he talked to the groundstaff and left us to put 'er to bed and again in the morning we were left to get the locks 'n chocks out, do our job AND his, while he chatted to the pax in the terminal and carried little kids out to the aircraft for their mothers.
That got him in the end. The poor blo*dy FO managed to forget the nose gear lock in the mad rush to get everything ready after arriving at the drome much later than normal as was the way with our Rexy.
When the nose gear didn't come up, Old Rexy knew immediately why ... (previous experience someone has kept Stchoom about for decades?)
This time the gear collapsed and DCA was in on it.
FO got nailed to the wall and was about to be flogged with barbed wire when one of the more unpopular DCA coves said, "Wait a minute... isn't it the Captain's responsibility..."
The F O didn't get the sack after all and proved beyond doubt that he was a fine operator by later becoming a popular Check Captain.
We FLEW the Mouse and learned our craft from blokes who'd been taught airmanship from blokes who'd been taught airmanship from old Waries and chaps who'd flown with Kingsford Smith.
Too bad we lost that knowlege base a couple of decades ago and now read the laments of pilots who are overworked, haven't had that grounding and are going to train 200 hour cadets to operate auto pilots that do exactly what's in-putted into computers while scootin' along at eight miles a minute.
I didn't particularly like the Mouse. I came from DC-3s. In really thinking about it I didn't like the aeroplane it's systems and it's being operated like a jet rather than an older generation prop aircraft that it was.
There was the fun of hoping old Rexy would stuff up one day with his cutting both engines as he left the runway and coasted in, but he was an 'old and bold' and always needed the brakes to stop her.
Ron C. when he was a FO, tried just sneaking a tiny bit of brake on to fix the old bugg*r but Rex was onto it straight away and told him to get his feet off the brakes.
There were many fun activities like landing on the grass at Maryborough and Bundy just for fun. Five hundred feet up the beach and over Green Island Being the only airliner that could take off at Brissy and all ports north in cyclones and having to fly in them.
Flying in cyclones wasn't particularly bad; lots of drift and flight planning for interesting alternates but it wasn't overly rough. One topped at about 6500 feet and we cruised way above it.
The pleasure was being with the blokes who were all uptight on getting their command and watching them relax and get naughty as their experience increased.
They taught me heaps and slowly I stopped dying the death before and during checks from ostmosis.
Half them smoked like chimneys in the cockpit and all except Rexy mucked in doing the job.
Rexy left the lot to the F O specially on overnights when he talked to the groundstaff and left us to put 'er to bed and again in the morning we were left to get the locks 'n chocks out, do our job AND his, while he chatted to the pax in the terminal and carried little kids out to the aircraft for their mothers.
That got him in the end. The poor blo*dy FO managed to forget the nose gear lock in the mad rush to get everything ready after arriving at the drome much later than normal as was the way with our Rexy.
When the nose gear didn't come up, Old Rexy knew immediately why ... (previous experience someone has kept Stchoom about for decades?)
This time the gear collapsed and DCA was in on it.
FO got nailed to the wall and was about to be flogged with barbed wire when one of the more unpopular DCA coves said, "Wait a minute... isn't it the Captain's responsibility..."
The F O didn't get the sack after all and proved beyond doubt that he was a fine operator by later becoming a popular Check Captain.
We FLEW the Mouse and learned our craft from blokes who'd been taught airmanship from blokes who'd been taught airmanship from old Waries and chaps who'd flown with Kingsford Smith.
Too bad we lost that knowlege base a couple of decades ago and now read the laments of pilots who are overworked, haven't had that grounding and are going to train 200 hour cadets to operate auto pilots that do exactly what's in-putted into computers while scootin' along at eight miles a minute.
Moderator
Dragging out that ground cart on a cold winter morning, manual load sheets, securing the webbing etc
Character building stuff
all while his Lordship had a fag and a yarn with the locals up against the boundary fence.
has to be some privilege with rank, (even if it only was 2½ bars to start with) .. and he probably did his time on the same 10 years earlier ...
under the staircase for the boy in Mildura
the Grand was my favourite pub .. you can keep your Hiltons and Sheratons ..
I always seemed to be the FO on Initial Command checkouts with the tension level akin to having dinner with the ex-wife.
Donder and I can relate to that .. when we were intake we had a like number of initial commands going through at the same time. Great fun and a good bunch of blokes.
I must admit the 'track trips' were fun though.
probably best not to venture too close to track trip stories until all the participants have died and the statute of limitations has expired.
Apart from the hearing loss
you're probably just as deaf as I am .. I guess the Ta-tas guys are better with their having used decent headsets on the Mouse.
FO got nailed to the wall ... isn't it the Captain's responsibility..."
One of my contemporaries and a fine chap - he never appeared to be bitter about the incident at all, though.
Too bad we lost that knowlege base a couple of decades ago
.. and now no-one, other than the older folk, appear to perceive the problems associated with the Industry's dumbing down ...
Character building stuff
all while his Lordship had a fag and a yarn with the locals up against the boundary fence.
has to be some privilege with rank, (even if it only was 2½ bars to start with) .. and he probably did his time on the same 10 years earlier ...
under the staircase for the boy in Mildura
the Grand was my favourite pub .. you can keep your Hiltons and Sheratons ..
I always seemed to be the FO on Initial Command checkouts with the tension level akin to having dinner with the ex-wife.
Donder and I can relate to that .. when we were intake we had a like number of initial commands going through at the same time. Great fun and a good bunch of blokes.
I must admit the 'track trips' were fun though.
probably best not to venture too close to track trip stories until all the participants have died and the statute of limitations has expired.
Apart from the hearing loss
you're probably just as deaf as I am .. I guess the Ta-tas guys are better with their having used decent headsets on the Mouse.
FO got nailed to the wall ... isn't it the Captain's responsibility..."
One of my contemporaries and a fine chap - he never appeared to be bitter about the incident at all, though.
Too bad we lost that knowlege base a couple of decades ago
.. and now no-one, other than the older folk, appear to perceive the problems associated with the Industry's dumbing down ...
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Just in case any of you have forgotten!!!!!
"Third oil line valve".
With this type of propeller, the pitch lock is unlatched by the admittance of pressure oil into the lock operating (Third ) oil line.
The admittance of pressure oil into this line is governed by a (Third) oil line valve in the controller unit, which isolates the pressure side on the unit pump from the lock operating oil line. The (third) oil line valve consists of a double- headed valve on a common stem, together with their respective seatings.
The double-headed valve stem abuts a small piston. With the valve in its normal position, the lock operating oil line is isolated from the pump pressure side of the controller unit by one valve which is closed on its seating, but opens to the low pressure drain side of the controller unit via the other valve which is of its seating.
A lock-withdrawal solenoid incorporated in the controller unit allows the (third) oil line valve to be hydraulically moved to admit pressure oil into the lock operating line.
There, why did we have so much trouble understanding that in the first place???
Regards.........
"Third oil line valve".
With this type of propeller, the pitch lock is unlatched by the admittance of pressure oil into the lock operating (Third ) oil line.
The admittance of pressure oil into this line is governed by a (Third) oil line valve in the controller unit, which isolates the pressure side on the unit pump from the lock operating oil line. The (third) oil line valve consists of a double- headed valve on a common stem, together with their respective seatings.
The double-headed valve stem abuts a small piston. With the valve in its normal position, the lock operating oil line is isolated from the pump pressure side of the controller unit by one valve which is closed on its seating, but opens to the low pressure drain side of the controller unit via the other valve which is of its seating.
A lock-withdrawal solenoid incorporated in the controller unit allows the (third) oil line valve to be hydraulically moved to admit pressure oil into the lock operating line.
There, why did we have so much trouble understanding that in the first place???
Regards.........
Join Date: Jun 2001
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The BOW of the F27 must have been reasonably high, compared to the Saab/Brasilia. With a 20.0 tonne MTOW on the F27, the SAAB/Brasilia are about 12.0 tonne MTOW for 36/30 pax. Shows the advances in construction and more fuel efficient power plants.
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Skylane,
Zero fuel Wt early type 16,207 kg
Later type 17,023 Kg
500's 17,930 Kg
Empty A/C Wt Various from 12,296 to 13,068 (FNQ with freight floor fitted.)
About 3.5 tones to play with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards
Zero fuel Wt early type 16,207 kg
Later type 17,023 Kg
500's 17,930 Kg
Empty A/C Wt Various from 12,296 to 13,068 (FNQ with freight floor fitted.)
About 3.5 tones to play with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Regards
Skylane.
Do not forget the F27-200/400/600's could carry 44 pax and the F27-500 56 pax if the seat pitch of the SF340/Brasilia were applied. The F27's also had a major galley and in some cases heavy duty floors for QC operations as well as heavy doors.
In my opinion the aircraft are in different categories.
Some other major differences
Number of cabin crew
Fuel capacity
Payload/range
The F27's were solid as a rock and I doubt the SF340/Brasilia will ever match the hours/cycle limit of the F27.
Do not forget the F27-200/400/600's could carry 44 pax and the F27-500 56 pax if the seat pitch of the SF340/Brasilia were applied. The F27's also had a major galley and in some cases heavy duty floors for QC operations as well as heavy doors.
In my opinion the aircraft are in different categories.
Some other major differences
Number of cabin crew
Fuel capacity
Payload/range
The F27's were solid as a rock and I doubt the SF340/Brasilia will ever match the hours/cycle limit of the F27.
Moderator
"Third oil line valve".
Mate, if you did that all from memory, I owe you a beer or 20. I can only recall something about coarsening and going in to effect same ...
Mate, if you did that all from memory, I owe you a beer or 20. I can only recall something about coarsening and going in to effect same ...
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On the numbers in this thread, it looks like the -500 had a usable payload of about 4.9 tonne, 52 punters and baggage would be a juggle. The numbers I have on the Brasilia gives a payload of 3.0 tonne for 30 pax. The Brasilia would go further on the same amount of fuel with a TAS of 280 kts and the ability to cruise above F250, As far as longitivity goes, I guess the F27 should last longer being a more solid aircraft, compared to the Brasilia. I understand some of the Australian registered Brasilia's are in the mid 30,000 hrs range and still flying. I would suppose the Saab's of Rex would be in a similar position
I can still hear the words of Ray Lancaster in my ears.." IF ever the "Below Low Lock Light" is ON and the "Low Stop Removed" Light is out and oil pressure is available, AUTO COARSENING WILL OCCUR!!
Having done 2 Dart schools...Viscount and F27 I almost had the 3rd oil line sorted !
Emeritus
Having done 2 Dart schools...Viscount and F27 I almost had the 3rd oil line sorted !
Emeritus
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As a pimply faced teenage baggage handler in coffs harbour I have fond memories of the f27. Didn't think too much of it at the time, but plugging in the battery cart just a metre or so away from a running prop, I'm sure that wouldn't be aloud these days with osh. The public holiday schedule with flights arriving into the early am. Listening to the capt's and fo's of the time, thinking to myself this is want I want to do for a living.
25 odd years later now, have had a cpl for 21 yrs and currently a capt on a b737
Keep the stories coming fellas
25 odd years later now, have had a cpl for 21 yrs and currently a capt on a b737
Keep the stories coming fellas
Well ... I can also recall at Coffs Harbour, during my flying training, mixing it with the "flying bananas" .
Some of you may remember the days when the F27s were painted .... canary yellow ... I guess as a visibility enhancement. Well, it worked. I never ran into any of the Flying Bananas as they shot in along the coast.
The standard procedure between us (newbie learners) and the banana drivers was ... " I'll stay over the water, if you stay over the land" . Worked a treat in the Coffs AFIZ days and made us feel really proud, as ... we were "mixing it with the big boys".
Some of you may remember the days when the F27s were painted .... canary yellow ... I guess as a visibility enhancement. Well, it worked. I never ran into any of the Flying Bananas as they shot in along the coast.
The standard procedure between us (newbie learners) and the banana drivers was ... " I'll stay over the water, if you stay over the land" . Worked a treat in the Coffs AFIZ days and made us feel really proud, as ... we were "mixing it with the big boys".
Silly Old Git
Ah Coffs..I once split the arse out of my trousers there doing the usual stretch, step,heave entry through the front freight door.
Luckily one of the girls had a towel so I could wrap up and leave the tarmac with some dignity in SYD.
Luckily one of the girls had a towel so I could wrap up and leave the tarmac with some dignity in SYD.
Reminds me of the story doing the rounds in those days of Ken 'G' who had a reputation with the ladies. Flying low along the coast near Coffs he said to the F/As;
"Come up the front and I'll show you the biggest bannana in the world!"
Trouble was it went over the PA by mistake and one young lass urgently rushed into the cockpit to advise Ken of his mistake. On leaving the cockpit a front row pax said; "well........ was it?" (There was a large fibre-glass one on the roadside, I presume it's still there).
"Come up the front and I'll show you the biggest bannana in the world!"
Trouble was it went over the PA by mistake and one young lass urgently rushed into the cockpit to advise Ken of his mistake. On leaving the cockpit a front row pax said; "well........ was it?" (There was a large fibre-glass one on the roadside, I presume it's still there).