China Southern WA
Ringbinder, way off thread, and facts not quite right re who was where, and when, if at all. BUT consider inside knowledge of a company's financial position and business ethics also a factor in why a person might pack his footy and go home. Chief pilot shelf life can be inversely proportional a company's willingness and ability to be legally compliant and whether they look after all pilots - not just the CP. Plus a certain intolerance which grows as one ages. Add another one to your list. Iran Air on 31 December 1979. Something to do with a revolution.
btw, did you get your GEERS money after the SAW collapse? The AFAP 'done good' on that.
Anyway, shall we get back on topic now? What news of improvements at China Southern with CAE Canada running the show? Plenty young instructors interested in this, as they have been a training ground for the regionals for many years. How is the current turnover?
btw, did you get your GEERS money after the SAW collapse? The AFAP 'done good' on that.
Anyway, shall we get back on topic now? What news of improvements at China Southern with CAE Canada running the show? Plenty young instructors interested in this, as they have been a training ground for the regionals for many years. How is the current turnover?
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I worked at China Southern in Merredin but 10 years ago, used to be award rates, has it changed? In 99 I got 35k as a Grade 2 instructor. How is it now?
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Ringbinder,
Easy, isn't it - hiding behind a pseudonym on Prooone, trying to smear somebody elses name and reputation. Just that it's not gonna work, 'cause those of us who's got to know Gordo knows better. He doesn't suffer fools easily though, so I'd wager a bet that you are one of those fools that has been told to put up or shut up
If indeed GB has retired, it is our industry's loss and the gain of the Moreton Bay Sailing Club
Happy tailwinds Gordo, you've forgotten more about flying airplanes than what most of us will ever know.
Easy, isn't it - hiding behind a pseudonym on Prooone, trying to smear somebody elses name and reputation. Just that it's not gonna work, 'cause those of us who's got to know Gordo knows better. He doesn't suffer fools easily though, so I'd wager a bet that you are one of those fools that has been told to put up or shut up
If indeed GB has retired, it is our industry's loss and the gain of the Moreton Bay Sailing Club
Happy tailwinds Gordo, you've forgotten more about flying airplanes than what most of us will ever know.
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Nah, Redjet (a pseudonym, well fancy that!!!), not sullying anyone's name. Gas Chamber made a comment on crowds going bust and my point is that GB left them before (and if) that ever happened. I was challenging the correctness of GC's comment.
M.E.A. disputes he (GB) was at all of those outfits mentioned ... I believe otherwise. Can't understand how that is damaging to someone's reputation.
You're right, it is easy - just need to open your eyes and you'll see what I was querying.
M.E.A. disputes he (GB) was at all of those outfits mentioned ... I believe otherwise. Can't understand how that is damaging to someone's reputation.
You're right, it is easy - just need to open your eyes and you'll see what I was querying.
Last edited by ringbinder; 10th Aug 2010 at 23:37. Reason: clarification
Well OK Ringbinder, dear girl, I can see you are agonising over this. So to put it to bed... Never at SQ, but assigned CASA FOI for them. Air Nauru did not technically go bust, but had their sole aeroplane repossessed by the bank and were grounded for 10 months. APNG - call it prescient. SAW & OzJet - definitely there on both occasions at the vinegar stroke.
Happy? Now, go enjoy your Harley. Not half the bike a Guzzi is, of course.
Back on topic, due to an inability to retain jet instructors, China Southern contracted the Citation flying out to REVESCO. There never was a career path to that anyway, as the CAAC require more jet minimum experience than the College was prepared to provide. They did it for one former CP but apparently it didn't work out too well.
Also, apparently most of their MECIR instructors now have gigs with the airlines. Great news.
Happy? Now, go enjoy your Harley. Not half the bike a Guzzi is, of course.
Back on topic, due to an inability to retain jet instructors, China Southern contracted the Citation flying out to REVESCO. There never was a career path to that anyway, as the CAAC require more jet minimum experience than the College was prepared to provide. They did it for one former CP but apparently it didn't work out too well.
Also, apparently most of their MECIR instructors now have gigs with the airlines. Great news.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 12th Aug 2010 at 05:39. Reason: deleted statement re Phase 4, due updated info
RB, in deference to your claimed lack of interest the history lesson has been condensed. But it seems to confirm old mate Gasman was right, not 'incorrect'.
Latest on China Southern is the Citations' days may be numbered. Apparently new Management is keen on King Air C-90's. If that is true, maybe it would be a good thing for the instructors. Not all that relevant for the students to have to learn all about condition levers and beta ranges etc, but I suppose their attitude will be much as it was for the Citation. Which generally was, get it over with to get back to China. Only a few showed any real interest in it. Those few were a pleasure to train.
What would be good for the students would be to get back to 50 hours ICUS on a more advanced aeroplane, which should be more affordable with C-90s.
Latest on China Southern is the Citations' days may be numbered. Apparently new Management is keen on King Air C-90's. If that is true, maybe it would be a good thing for the instructors. Not all that relevant for the students to have to learn all about condition levers and beta ranges etc, but I suppose their attitude will be much as it was for the Citation. Which generally was, get it over with to get back to China. Only a few showed any real interest in it. Those few were a pleasure to train.
What would be good for the students would be to get back to 50 hours ICUS on a more advanced aeroplane, which should be more affordable with C-90s.
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C90s 
Heard that one when I was there 10-11 years ago. Around about Course 11. That was before the RWY at MDN was sealed and we did briefings in the dirt with sticks..... Sounds like not a lot has changed really.
Heard that one when I was there 10-11 years ago. Around about Course 11. That was before the RWY at MDN was sealed and we did briefings in the dirt with sticks..... Sounds like not a lot has changed really.
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Phase 4
Actually M.A.E, take it from someone who knows...
Phase 4 Mgr was not forced to quit. He had personal/family reasons for ASKING to be moved back to an Instructor role.
Phase 4 Mgr was not forced to quit. He had personal/family reasons for ASKING to be moved back to an Instructor role.
Comment deleted. Just shows not to listen to everything you hear in the pub. Apparently, the Koran does not prohibit alcohol at all . It merely offers the advice not to conduct business when p!ssed. Good advice, that.
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Getting back to the original post for those considering instructing with CS and interested in the pay.
From what I know there’s quite a few unhappy campers since the change of management. New management have enforced a new pay scale and slashed all the well publicised allowances previously paid by CS. Those on the old scale (started prior to management change) still receive the same pay as before but management refuse to give them anything in writing to guarantee what they currently get, so how long they will receive it is any bodies guess. One can’t help but think that it will either only be until there are enough experienced lower paid newbies to fill the void by the inevitable walk out by the snr instructors if their pay is cut, or they will wait for the snr instructors to move on and employ all new instructors on the new scale with the expectation the newbies will be happy to have a job and sign whatever they are offered.
Any existing instructors paid on the old scale wanting to upgrade their instructor ratings are forced onto the new scale if they do, which offers considerably less in terms of the allowances that CS previously paid. This is the case even if they have been employed by CS for over a yr or more. So basically, if they’re wanting to upgrade from grade 3 to grade 2 or grade 2/1 single to mutli engine training they will get 5-15k a yr less (depending on grade & hrs flown) than they were previously on. This is despite the added responsibility and in the case of the Phase 4 guys forking out BIG $$$$ for their META, IFR approval, ect. Also, any new instructor goes on the new pay scale and will effectively be getting paid less then someone doing the exact same job as them but who started prior to the management change.
From what I know there’s quite a few unhappy campers since the change of management. New management have enforced a new pay scale and slashed all the well publicised allowances previously paid by CS. Those on the old scale (started prior to management change) still receive the same pay as before but management refuse to give them anything in writing to guarantee what they currently get, so how long they will receive it is any bodies guess. One can’t help but think that it will either only be until there are enough experienced lower paid newbies to fill the void by the inevitable walk out by the snr instructors if their pay is cut, or they will wait for the snr instructors to move on and employ all new instructors on the new scale with the expectation the newbies will be happy to have a job and sign whatever they are offered.
Any existing instructors paid on the old scale wanting to upgrade their instructor ratings are forced onto the new scale if they do, which offers considerably less in terms of the allowances that CS previously paid. This is the case even if they have been employed by CS for over a yr or more. So basically, if they’re wanting to upgrade from grade 3 to grade 2 or grade 2/1 single to mutli engine training they will get 5-15k a yr less (depending on grade & hrs flown) than they were previously on. This is despite the added responsibility and in the case of the Phase 4 guys forking out BIG $$$$ for their META, IFR approval, ect. Also, any new instructor goes on the new pay scale and will effectively be getting paid less then someone doing the exact same job as them but who started prior to the management change.
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The saviours... that aren't...
Its a shame that an operation like this that could be so good is, well... not.. 
The money, albeit due to allowances, started to resemble something worthwhile about 2yrs ago.
With the advent of the Ops Mgr who isn't and the Principle who couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag, the thought of the Canadians taking control was seen as a welcome change that hopefully would be for the better... it appears though from what I hear and read this sadly isn't the case, frying pan into the fire???
There is always grumbling and talk of mass exodus within aviation, it seems, regardless of the company but sadly it seems there will always be people happy to accept whatever is around thus the cr@p operators seem to survive...
Is this a reflection of an industry where the profits of operators (those without red tails or bodies) are so close to the bone competition prevents any decent operators from flourishing?
Good luck to those battling their way through at the moment...
P.O.M
The money, albeit due to allowances, started to resemble something worthwhile about 2yrs ago.
With the advent of the Ops Mgr who isn't and the Principle who couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag, the thought of the Canadians taking control was seen as a welcome change that hopefully would be for the better... it appears though from what I hear and read this sadly isn't the case, frying pan into the fire???
There is always grumbling and talk of mass exodus within aviation, it seems, regardless of the company but sadly it seems there will always be people happy to accept whatever is around thus the cr@p operators seem to survive...
Is this a reflection of an industry where the profits of operators (those without red tails or bodies) are so close to the bone competition prevents any decent operators from flourishing?
Good luck to those battling their way through at the moment...
P.O.M
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So many strong words 'Starship'
However, I beg to differ with your statements (all but about three of them actually)
They say that small amounts of information can be dangerous- because the ignorant fill in the gaps and hence there comes a rumour purported to be a fact.
P'raps you should double check with your 'source'?
Bah! But why bother, eh? This is, after all, a rumour mill- not a truth factory...
However, I beg to differ with your statements (all but about three of them actually)
They say that small amounts of information can be dangerous- because the ignorant fill in the gaps and hence there comes a rumour purported to be a fact.
P'raps you should double check with your 'source'?
Bah! But why bother, eh? This is, after all, a rumour mill- not a truth factory...
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So what are the facts then roundnround
Having spent too many of my piloting years at CS I am genuinely interested. Unfortunately it is starting to sound like the 'good 'ol days' was when Barney ran the show
Having spent too many of my piloting years at CS I am genuinely interested. Unfortunately it is starting to sound like the 'good 'ol days' was when Barney ran the show
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Im with Monopole here roundnround, if your [roundnround] all so wise with knowledge on the fact, just so i dont become the ignorant one please do, for not only my benefit but for everyone is this forum. please explain....???
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Sorry for the bump but still havent been able to determine the pay they offer their instructors. Any other valid information from someone who is actually currently instructing there?
Thanks
Thanks