visual circling off an instrument approach
Join Date: May 2009
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Pilots should not commit to a straight in landing unless they can be satisfied that wind conditions are suitable.
In legal documents the word 'should' usually has the same meaning as 'shall'.
(Friends in the 'legal arts' suggest the use of the word 'should' in a document, is a sign of poor drafting.)
Join Date: May 2002
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You need to use your experience and good decision making, using all available information to reach the desired outcome safely
Bummer hanging around waiting for station passage.
Go back through the DCA Safety Digest and you find plenty of circling approach accidents including;
1. AC500 at Hobart that flew into the water at night time, mind you the PPL pilot doing a charter flight during an airline strike and holding an IFR rating probably did help the cause either,
2. AC560 down out King Island flying into the ground on the down-wind leg at night-time,
3. Piper PA-31/350 at King Island on a night freight flight flew into the ground on base leg,
4. AC500 on medical flight into YWBL at night time flight flew into the ground on the downwind leg,
5. AC560 on a night time Reg203 flight flew into the ground during a night circuit,
6. Piper PA-31/350 crashed turning final after a circling approach at Launceston,
7. Piper PA-31/350 crashed at Young during a night cirling approach,
Just to name a few.
Pity a bit more effort was put into teaching the IFR student how to fly a bad weather circuit in marginal conditions.
Go back through the DCA Safety Digest and you find plenty of circling approach accidents including;
1. AC500 at Hobart that flew into the water at night time, mind you the PPL pilot doing a charter flight during an airline strike and holding an IFR rating probably did help the cause either,
2. AC560 down out King Island flying into the ground on the down-wind leg at night-time,
3. Piper PA-31/350 at King Island on a night freight flight flew into the ground on base leg,
4. AC500 on medical flight into YWBL at night time flight flew into the ground on the downwind leg,
5. AC560 on a night time Reg203 flight flew into the ground during a night circuit,
6. Piper PA-31/350 crashed turning final after a circling approach at Launceston,
7. Piper PA-31/350 crashed at Young during a night cirling approach,
Just to name a few.
Pity a bit more effort was put into teaching the IFR student how to fly a bad weather circuit in marginal conditions.
Join Date: May 2002
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Bummer hanging around waiting for station passage.
Go back through the DCA Safety Digest and you find plenty of circling approach accidents including;
1. AC500 at Hobart that flew into the water at night time, mind you the PPL pilot doing a charter flight during an airline strike and NOT holding an IFR rating probably did help the cause either,
2. AC560 down out King Island flying into the ground on the down-wind leg at night-time,
3. Piper PA-31/350 at King Island on a night freight flight flew into the ground on base leg,
4. AC500 on medical flight into YWBL at night time flight flew into the ground on the downwind leg,
5. AC560 on a night time Reg203 flight flew into the ground during a night circuit,
6. Piper PA-31/350 crashed turning final after a circling approach at Launceston,
7. Piper PA-31/350 crashed at Young during a night cirling approach,
Just to name a few.
Pity a bit more effort was put into teaching the IFR student how to fly a bad weather circuit in marginal conditions.
Go back through the DCA Safety Digest and you find plenty of circling approach accidents including;
1. AC500 at Hobart that flew into the water at night time, mind you the PPL pilot doing a charter flight during an airline strike and NOT holding an IFR rating probably did help the cause either,
2. AC560 down out King Island flying into the ground on the down-wind leg at night-time,
3. Piper PA-31/350 at King Island on a night freight flight flew into the ground on base leg,
4. AC500 on medical flight into YWBL at night time flight flew into the ground on the downwind leg,
5. AC560 on a night time Reg203 flight flew into the ground during a night circuit,
6. Piper PA-31/350 crashed turning final after a circling approach at Launceston,
7. Piper PA-31/350 crashed at Young during a night cirling approach,
Just to name a few.
Pity a bit more effort was put into teaching the IFR student how to fly a bad weather circuit in marginal conditions.
Join Date: May 2006
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“Flightsafety is about 20 years too late.”
But not early enough for some – Circling approaches at the bottom of a now called NPA in low viz, are a high risk/high workload segment – no doubt. Some are blissfully unaware of the collaborative factors that can quickly escalate when in the wrong place at the wrong time. These types of approaches require respect. You can’t simplify or stylize a technique, each circumstance is different, a good SOP is a starting point.
“Australian RPT operators (and probably GA) have forgotten more about NPAs and circling approaches than FS will ever know.”
Maybe forgotten a little too much perhaps – from what I have read on this thread.
“The only reason they are apparently dangerous is because pilots aren't trained to fly them properly with sound SOPs that work,”
Yes, they ARE dangerous under these circumstances, but that’s the situation many inexperienced pilots find themselves, and training is the issue. Some of the trainers lack experience in the form of actual exposure to the condition that can arise.
“Now that we have SI Apps (RNAV) on all runways, the time has come for circling to be reduced; that doesn't mean it's dangerous or very high workload, particularly if the vis is good.”
No, there are many runways requiring you to circle.
The issue to circle in adverse conditions at the minima with low viz has enormous potential for CFIT – if you are not aware of the factors then the link to Flightsafety is a good point of first enquiry.
“At 100kt, turning on a sixpence, if you think they're dangerous you shouldn't be in the cockpit.”
It isn’t a sixpence, the rest of your statement is well……..a bit bland and inflammatory.
But not early enough for some – Circling approaches at the bottom of a now called NPA in low viz, are a high risk/high workload segment – no doubt. Some are blissfully unaware of the collaborative factors that can quickly escalate when in the wrong place at the wrong time. These types of approaches require respect. You can’t simplify or stylize a technique, each circumstance is different, a good SOP is a starting point.
“Australian RPT operators (and probably GA) have forgotten more about NPAs and circling approaches than FS will ever know.”
Maybe forgotten a little too much perhaps – from what I have read on this thread.
“The only reason they are apparently dangerous is because pilots aren't trained to fly them properly with sound SOPs that work,”
Yes, they ARE dangerous under these circumstances, but that’s the situation many inexperienced pilots find themselves, and training is the issue. Some of the trainers lack experience in the form of actual exposure to the condition that can arise.
“Now that we have SI Apps (RNAV) on all runways, the time has come for circling to be reduced; that doesn't mean it's dangerous or very high workload, particularly if the vis is good.”
No, there are many runways requiring you to circle.
The issue to circle in adverse conditions at the minima with low viz has enormous potential for CFIT – if you are not aware of the factors then the link to Flightsafety is a good point of first enquiry.
“At 100kt, turning on a sixpence, if you think they're dangerous you shouldn't be in the cockpit.”
It isn’t a sixpence, the rest of your statement is well……..a bit bland and inflammatory.
