C207 lands short at Coffs
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C207 lands short at Coffs
A C207 landed short of the runway today at Coffs Harbour today due to engine failure. So who out there does powered approaches in piston engined singles? I always rather be higher on the approach then lower for this reason, after all, if the engine quits, you haven't got the luxury of another engine. Too often I see pilots who drag it in with power, being low on the approach. Perhaps a reality check is needed sometimes to help avoid these types of accidents. There should be no reason why a landing on the runway could not be made if you are either in the circuit or within gliding distance of the airport. 
Yeah but what about the other 4 hours I have just flown across 600nm of desert or ocean. I am not going to glide into an airstrip out there
I personally don't fly a circuit close enough to glide in.
Otherwise I'd never want to leave the circuit
I personally don't fly a circuit close enough to glide in.
Otherwise I'd never want to leave the circuit
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While I see what you're getting at BCY, its not very practical to fly a single at all times as if it were about to lose its engine. This bloke obviously wasn't too high seeing as though the jumpers couldn't get out.
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VH-BCY - have you ever flown a loaded C207 "Skycoffin"?
I think maybe you should try what you are saying - a "gliding" 207 has about the same approach as a Space Shuttle (or perhaps a cat thrown from a very high rise apartment building.....).
But it has nothing on the new turbo compounded C209 "Super" with the JATO rockets, optional belly pod (double coffin taker) and underwing fuel drop tanks....
I think maybe you should try what you are saying - a "gliding" 207 has about the same approach as a Space Shuttle (or perhaps a cat thrown from a very high rise apartment building.....).
But it has nothing on the new turbo compounded C209 "Super" with the JATO rockets, optional belly pod (double coffin taker) and underwing fuel drop tanks....
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News report I heard was engine failure at height, got it restarted just before impact.
They also said as part of the damage that the "tyre snapped off" so make of it what you will....
They also said as part of the damage that the "tyre snapped off" so make of it what you will....
BCY
The techniques you speak of, like many we still teach in piston singles, were perfectly valid while teaching in Tigers during the War.
Did you learn to fly with the guy in the hangar next door to you?
Seriously - old mate is correct when he says
The guy was on climb for a skydiving operation, not "in the circuit". If he ****** up the glide approach it had nothing to do with his normal circuit habits.
The techniques you speak of, like many we still teach in piston singles, were perfectly valid while teaching in Tigers during the War.
Did you learn to fly with the guy in the hangar next door to you?
Seriously - old mate is correct when he says
what about the other 4 hours I have just flown across 600nm of desert or ocean.
Whilst there is always a chance of engine failure, the chance of stuffing up a glide approach in a heavy single is a greater risk.
It is much harder to constantly change your approach to arrive over the runway from different angles. The glide profile would be very different for different wind and operating weight and the rate of descent in big singles would be difficult to cope with.
This would be the only way you could ensure you'd glide to the runway from anywhere without compromising runway performance.
I believe this would lead to more accidents on landing then flying a stable powered approach.
If you don't have a 207 at your disposal take a bonanza or lance for a fly at max weight and do some gliding and see how close your circuit would have to be to make the runway, especially considering gear and flap on base and final.
You could even go further and say at idle you could get a suprise when you suddenly need go-round power and it coughs and splutters because its gone cold and fouled up.
Its much easier to just have off field options as you proceed round the circuit that you can easily reach without trying to stretch for the runway. The amount of successful landings on golf courses and similar in the past is testiment to this. The number of accidents by pilots trying to stretch a glide or turn back after take-off also say alot for techniques believing you can or have to make the runway.
In short if you can make the runway easily, go for it. If its doubtful or marginal then land somewhere else. If you are a student have a long chat to your instructor about it.
It is much harder to constantly change your approach to arrive over the runway from different angles. The glide profile would be very different for different wind and operating weight and the rate of descent in big singles would be difficult to cope with.
This would be the only way you could ensure you'd glide to the runway from anywhere without compromising runway performance.
I believe this would lead to more accidents on landing then flying a stable powered approach.
If you don't have a 207 at your disposal take a bonanza or lance for a fly at max weight and do some gliding and see how close your circuit would have to be to make the runway, especially considering gear and flap on base and final.
You could even go further and say at idle you could get a suprise when you suddenly need go-round power and it coughs and splutters because its gone cold and fouled up.
Its much easier to just have off field options as you proceed round the circuit that you can easily reach without trying to stretch for the runway. The amount of successful landings on golf courses and similar in the past is testiment to this. The number of accidents by pilots trying to stretch a glide or turn back after take-off also say alot for techniques believing you can or have to make the runway.
In short if you can make the runway easily, go for it. If its doubtful or marginal then land somewhere else. If you are a student have a long chat to your instructor about it.
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Distance from runways
AN3-bolt, yes I have flown the skycoffin. In fact, I use to own this very C207 and have flown many fully loaded skydive ops in it.
The point I was trying to make was simply there is nothing wrong of being a little higher on finals than a bit lower. As far as I know in this particular example, he was over 4000 feet and not far from the runway after being told there would be a delay in clearance. It was also not fully loaded. Only 5 POB and enough fuel for 1 sortie. I could be wrong with the information I have, but he should have made it easily, especially since there was a problem before the engine actually stopped(sorry H). He was only about 200 metres short.
I learnt to fly in ultralights where having an engine stop was only a matter of time not if. I was also taught that apart from initial takeoff and climb out, that you should be able to make the runway or at least somewhere close enough to make a safe landing in the event of an engine failure. What is wrong with this mindset? Too often circuits are done out of the range of most singles if the fan decides to stop.
HL, what do you mean by your comment "Did you learn to fly with the guy in the hangar next door to you?"
The point I was trying to make was simply there is nothing wrong of being a little higher on finals than a bit lower. As far as I know in this particular example, he was over 4000 feet and not far from the runway after being told there would be a delay in clearance. It was also not fully loaded. Only 5 POB and enough fuel for 1 sortie. I could be wrong with the information I have, but he should have made it easily, especially since there was a problem before the engine actually stopped(sorry H). He was only about 200 metres short.
I learnt to fly in ultralights where having an engine stop was only a matter of time not if. I was also taught that apart from initial takeoff and climb out, that you should be able to make the runway or at least somewhere close enough to make a safe landing in the event of an engine failure. What is wrong with this mindset? Too often circuits are done out of the range of most singles if the fan decides to stop.
HL, what do you mean by your comment "Did you learn to fly with the guy in the hangar next door to you?"
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Plane in hanger
Capt, at the moment all my planes are either working or down for maintenance. Can you lend me one, I need to fly to work! I promise I wont bend it, even if the engine stops. I have had plenty of practise over the years .
.
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I am guessing that CASA did the usual drug and booze check on the pilot. Wonder if the jumpers were tested as they are airside when they land.....
Know said operator, hopefully the pilot gets looked after accordingly...rather than the 6 pack of beer at the end of the week as your weekly pay...plus you can live in the hangar if you want....
Didn't see the jumpers with unpacked 'chutes...must have gone down with the ship?
3 planes in 3 years...doing well fellas!!!!
Now back to my fairy dust....
Know said operator, hopefully the pilot gets looked after accordingly...rather than the 6 pack of beer at the end of the week as your weekly pay...plus you can live in the hangar if you want....
Didn't see the jumpers with unpacked 'chutes...must have gone down with the ship?
3 planes in 3 years...doing well fellas!!!!
Now back to my fairy dust....
HL, what do you mean by your comment "Did you learn to fly with the guy in the hangar next door to you?"
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If he was at 4,000' when the noise stopped, why didn't the Nutters expadite the glider? Were they over water or perhaps they were wearing a static line? Anyone know?
I was silly enough to have an incident over the DZ at 1,000' and I told them to jump (a high load so no static lines). Made for a much easier landing with what may have been "dead weight" onboard? They got their adrenalin rush so they were happy with a low hop n pop.
You think the C207 is bad, try a C205. Got an unpleasant surprise when I did my first landing in it and ran out of elevator in the flare.
I was silly enough to have an incident over the DZ at 1,000' and I told them to jump (a high load so no static lines). Made for a much easier landing with what may have been "dead weight" onboard? They got their adrenalin rush so they were happy with a low hop n pop.
You think the C207 is bad, try a C205. Got an unpleasant surprise when I did my first landing in it and ran out of elevator in the flare.
Last edited by Biggles78; 25th Jun 2010 at 23:02. Reason: Typo
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a 3deg approach, or a standard approach is acceptable. But when conditions are favourable such as a long runway on disposal and runway reqd being not too long, there is nothing wrong with flying the approach high. (not too high) agree with BCY. Also refer to Canley Vale crash.
In Canley Vale crash, it was all because of lack of height.
In Canley Vale crash, it was all because of lack of height.
altitude is pilot's best friend
Last edited by aditya104; 26th Jun 2010 at 04:09.
aditya104 - that's a very long bow to draw, don't ya think? 
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Im sure every pilot would love a bit more altitude in an emergency, but you dont always get what you want!
Interesting the jumpers never bailed, when it comes to riding the elevator they are a nervous bunch of sissys just waiting for any excuse to jump!
"Why the hell would you guys jump from a perfectly servicable aircraft?"
"What!? you honestly think this thing is anywhere near servicable?!"
Interesting the jumpers never bailed, when it comes to riding the elevator they are a nervous bunch of sissys just waiting for any excuse to jump!
"Why the hell would you guys jump from a perfectly servicable aircraft?"
"What!? you honestly think this thing is anywhere near servicable?!"
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C207 crash update
Apparently the pilot was told to hold west of the highway at 4000(which is too far away from airport if the fan stops). He then made his way in but ran into trouble on final. Good job H, sorry if I made it sound like that you just stuffed up and was too low on approach. Not sure why skydivers didn't get out, I assume it happened too low and were over tiger country. 2 instructors on board with AFF and B-Rel students. Pilot was only tested that morning for booze and drugs, all clear.
Engine(TCM IO550) had only done about 50 hours from factory rebuilt. Still no clue on what caused the stoppage, I guess we will have to wait for the reports. And no, I don't think they ran out of fuel before anyone suggests it. They had at least 100 litres of fuel on board before takeoff, more than enough including reserves for the sortie
Engine(TCM IO550) had only done about 50 hours from factory rebuilt. Still no clue on what caused the stoppage, I guess we will have to wait for the reports. And no, I don't think they ran out of fuel before anyone suggests it. They had at least 100 litres of fuel on board before takeoff, more than enough including reserves for the sortie