Colour vision restriction & instructor rating

[Tom Tucker]

Hi all, am currently completing PPL with a view to obtain CPL and instructor rating but have colour vision problem.

PPL is restricted to day operations and I was wondering if anyone has been able to obtain instructor rating with similar problem?

Regards,

[Fonz121]

Hey mate,

I don't know the full details but I knew an instructor who was colour blind but did some test where he went to an airport and while being supervised by someone from CASA, the tower gave him different light signals and he just had to correctly say what they were. This lifted some condition off his medical. Like I said, can't fully remember the details but inquire about something along those lines. Best of luck.

[LeadSled]

TT,
Talk to Dr. A.M.Pape, Bellpost Hill Medical Clinic, Geelong, Victoria.

Arthur is the Australia expert on non-standard colour perception and pilot licensing standards.

There are many pilots who are only flying because of his efforts. He fought and won the original AAT case against DCA, on this subject.

Google his name, that should bring up some interesting information.

Start with <http://www.ozipilots.com.au/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&id=693&catid=1&func=sb_pdf>

Tootle pip!!

[Tom Tucker]

Thanks for the reply will follow up

Many thanks for the quick reply I will follow up.

Great forum and appreciate the referral from the CFI @ MFS

Fly high fly safe,

TT

[YPJT]

I know of a few pilots who cannot pass Ishihara or Farnsworth tests. Their medicals are endorsed something like "Valid in Australian airspace only up to CPL". So I think you will be fine for an instructor rating.

[Tom Tucker]

Some options for the colour challenged

Just incase anyone else has the same question here is a bit more info I have gleaned.

1) Instructor Rating requires CPL
2) CPL requires either Night VFR or Command Rating
3) Currently colour vision restriction precludes Night VFR
4) Command Rating comes in two parts (I think) day IMC and night IMC

So here are the options as I currently see them in order of cost and complexity:

a) seek exemption (aka wise and proactive Dr)
b) look to have CASA supervise flight check at night and identify coloured lights
c) Obtain day IMC Command rating and seek confirmation from CASA that this fulfils requirements for Instructors Rating

Any thoughts, confirmation of the implied assumptions etc greatly appreciated.

Regards

TT
Fly far, fly safe

[Andy_RR]

Originally Posted by Tom Tucker

3) Currently colour vision restriction precludes Night VFR

Are you sure that is the case in Aus? I have CVD and no explicit restriction on my (currently lapsed) medical. In JAA-land though, I had a Day-VFR restriction on my medical.

Has something changed here in Aus?

[conflict alert]

presume you did a latern test??

Often someone slightly colour blind that can't do the 'book of dots' can pass the latern test.

What sort of colour blindness is it? eg red green deficient

[YPJT]

TT, take LeadSled's advice and contact Arthur Pape. Something in what you are saying just does not ring correct. I was recently approached by a guy up north who was very much in the same boat as you. Doing his PPL and couldn't pass the Ishihara (like 8% of males). He got his medical back with the restricion I mentioned earlier ie, Valid in Australian airspace only up to CPL. Therefore OK for NVFR, OK for IR, OK for instructor rating.

Out of interest, do you have your medical yet?

I ask the same question as Andy RR, has something changed recently in Australia and CASA's rules?

[conflict alert]

out of interest, in OZ do they test for this every renewal? Used to in NZ but for some years now only on an initial medical, deemed to be something that doesn't 'happen' over time so only tested for once.

[YPJT]

In my experience, there is no subsequent colour vision testing. Although my DAME pulls the Ishihara plates out occasionally for sh1ts and giggles and says "you are colour blind aren't you"

[conflict alert]

sounds like my Doc who takes great delight in after a piss test holds the container up to the light and says 'look at those crabs'

[flyhardmo]

Ive got a mate who couldn't pass the Ishihara test but did the lantern test and has an unrestricted license. It won't get you into the RAAF but should be no problem for civil. He has shown the results to several CAA's around the world while converting licenses and never had a problem.
good luck

[conflict alert]

did the lantern test and has an unrestricted license

that was where I was going with my posts - lantern test seems to be the 'ultimate' test and if you can get through that - in civil land thats okay, and then your never tested again...well at least where I'm from

[YPJT]

Conflict Alert,
That's the way I understand it too. In fact I think it extends even further to successfully passing the practical light gun test.

Before Arthur Pape successfully took CASA to the AAT and won, us CVDs were restricted to day pvt VFR only. I think it was changed in abou 1996 that you could basically do everything except ATPL.

[conflict alert]

CAA Rules Class 1, 2 and 3 under vision

have no history or diagnosis of any vision disorder that is of
aeromedical significance

not sure what aeromedical significance is but at any rate doesn't differentiate between PPL CPL ATPL. Class 1 CPL Class 2 PPL Class 3 ATCO and under VISION for medical standards all start with quote above.

[triadic]

I know of one Dash8 Capt who is CVD and holds a medical that says Australian airspace only. Suits his needs. Obviously Day/Night/IFR..

Talk to Arthur P as indicated above - he is the wiz! You will find him on the CASA DAME list in Geelong.

a) seek exemption (aka wise and proactive Dr)

Suggest you don't go down this path until you have spoken to AP and done all the required tests and know what the restrictions on your PPL are. If you ask the DAME to do a CPL medical that should place it all before you.

[Biggles66]

flyhardmo - I would be interested to know if he showed it to any JAR (Europe) countries as they won't even normally allow you to get an instrument rating without a night rating and with CVD - no night rating... So I am wondering, if i come from here with a "clean" medical and go to the Europeans, would they issue me with a unrestricted medical? I should say I started off in Europe and could only get a medical with the typical restriction "no night flying" and no CPL, etc.

[OZZI_PPL]

I am Red /Green colour deficient. Always have major problems with the colour plate test. "Major" as in 8 out of 24 correct....

I have done the Farnsworth Lantern test a number of different times and always score better. The main issue I have with the plates, is that I can see a figure but always confuse a 6 with an 8 or a 3 with an 8 etc.

I had to do the Farnsworth test on my initial Class 2. They tested me again on the Colour plates at my last medical renewal. Even though I had an abysmal score, me medical was processed without any dramas.

[conflict alert]

I am Red /Green colour deficient.

same - cannot do the dots but passed latern test. Told the dots are a lazy way for Doc's to do the test. Passed a latern test and noted on file so have been able to get any licence with no restrictions. As previously mentioned - they only do colour check on initial now over here. Prior to that always had to tell the quack after failing miserably when he would show me the book of 'dots' that I had passed the latern test...every medical renewal...it was a pain in the ass..but they just noted it down and signed the medical off.