Parachuting at Elwood Park
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Parachuting at Elwood Park
Yesterday was probably the start of using the beachside park at Elwood as a parachuting DZ.
I would appear that the local council has approved para hops into the park on a trial basis, possibly two months. The jumps will be tandem (read passenger carrying) and will operate from Moorabbin airport.
Elwood Park is on the beach south of Melbourne City. An aircraft in that area could be on any one of four frequencies so hearing a two-minute-to-jump warning might not be heard. Elwood is just north of the Brighton VFR waypoint into Moorabbin.
The area is already very busy with aircraft going north and south and into Essendon, some in CTA, others about to join CTA and others flying OCTA.
One has to ask does this meet APF regulations in hopping over a built up area?
Do these jumps meet APF regs in terms of the jumpers having lifejackets on given the proximity to the sea?
It would appear that a NOTAM will be issued on the day of any scheduled jumps. Whether that will be a Moorabbin or Melbourne FIR NOTAM is unclear at this stage.
It has been reported that more than 100 jumps per week are planned.
Given the extra workload on the Melbourne RAS 135.7 perhaps AirServices should start thinking of charging per hop for each flight that involves an airways clearance, in the same way that IFR flights are charged for using the system.
Beware when flying north of Moorabbin for both horizontal and vertical traffic.
I would appear that the local council has approved para hops into the park on a trial basis, possibly two months. The jumps will be tandem (read passenger carrying) and will operate from Moorabbin airport.
Elwood Park is on the beach south of Melbourne City. An aircraft in that area could be on any one of four frequencies so hearing a two-minute-to-jump warning might not be heard. Elwood is just north of the Brighton VFR waypoint into Moorabbin.
The area is already very busy with aircraft going north and south and into Essendon, some in CTA, others about to join CTA and others flying OCTA.
One has to ask does this meet APF regulations in hopping over a built up area?
Do these jumps meet APF regs in terms of the jumpers having lifejackets on given the proximity to the sea?
It would appear that a NOTAM will be issued on the day of any scheduled jumps. Whether that will be a Moorabbin or Melbourne FIR NOTAM is unclear at this stage.
It has been reported that more than 100 jumps per week are planned.
Given the extra workload on the Melbourne RAS 135.7 perhaps AirServices should start thinking of charging per hop for each flight that involves an airways clearance, in the same way that IFR flights are charged for using the system.
Beware when flying north of Moorabbin for both horizontal and vertical traffic.
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If there was a NOTAM issued every time they are going to jump then that will help a little but seriously I liken the location to jumping out overhead Carrum. Mind you, Elwood is next to Brighton which is essentially an approach point for GAAP. Not so much am I overly concerned about the chutes as such but the aircraft dropping them, they are out to get up and down as quick as they can so you are certanily right about vertical and horizontal traffic.
Tooradin has been operating next to water for near 6 years and they haven't lost anyone to the water yet.
Do you really want parachute aircraft to be charged for VFR CTA clearances? If you kept pushing that and it happened, god help us all.
Tooradin has been operating next to water for near 6 years and they haven't lost anyone to the water yet.
Do you really want parachute aircraft to be charged for VFR CTA clearances? If you kept pushing that and it happened, god help us all.
One has to ask does this meet APF regulations in hopping over a built up area?
Responsibility for safety of the drop largely rests with the meat bomber. If as you say there is a possibility of a number of frequencies in use then the workload on that final jump run will be a little high.
We used to see jumping into the ocean between Fremantle and Rottnest a few years back without too much problem. Perth Radar were always good at keeping the jump aircraft and those transiting mainland to the island or down the VFR route separated.
AirServices should start thinking of charging per hop for each flight that involves an airways clearance,
Last edited by YPJT; 4th Mar 2010 at 06:01.
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My semi-educated guess would be that ATC will clear the meatbomber to climb and descend out of the way of lanes of traffic in the area, likely over the bay depending on which rwy is in use at YMML which should be safe enough.
Proximity to water would unlikely pose a problem the tandem masters will all be very experienced and used to landing in certain areas; wind is also taken into account and if it's blowing offshore too strongly, they won't land on the beach. They'll have lifejackets with the pax just in case tho.
However I would also have concerns with aircraft potentially flying through the DZ enroute to Brighton or towards YMEN, especially considering students who are struggling with high workloads (I know I would have likely missed the call during training), and would be interested to know how they are going to negate the potential risk?? A tandem master, pax and rig will make a mess of any aircraft if they end up sharing airspace.
Proximity to water would unlikely pose a problem the tandem masters will all be very experienced and used to landing in certain areas; wind is also taken into account and if it's blowing offshore too strongly, they won't land on the beach. They'll have lifejackets with the pax just in case tho.
However I would also have concerns with aircraft potentially flying through the DZ enroute to Brighton or towards YMEN, especially considering students who are struggling with high workloads (I know I would have likely missed the call during training), and would be interested to know how they are going to negate the potential risk?? A tandem master, pax and rig will make a mess of any aircraft if they end up sharing airspace.
Elwood DZ
For those of your flying in the Melbourne area, have you ever heard on ML Radar the clearance "Lilydale One".
The skydivers at Lilydale are the same people operating into Elwood and they work very closely with ML ATC. Lilydale One is a defined area to the South and East of Lilydale where they climb and descent in CTA. Melbourne Skydive also have a Cloud Manual approved by the AFP and ML ATC where they are approved to drop through cloud.
Your points are well made with reference to the approach point into YMMB, but I am positive Radar is comfortable with the arrangement otherwise they wouldn't be able to drop in the area. Melbourne Skydive also drop into Royal Park near the Melbourne zoo from time to time.
Cheers
O471
The skydivers at Lilydale are the same people operating into Elwood and they work very closely with ML ATC. Lilydale One is a defined area to the South and East of Lilydale where they climb and descent in CTA. Melbourne Skydive also have a Cloud Manual approved by the AFP and ML ATC where they are approved to drop through cloud.
Your points are well made with reference to the approach point into YMMB, but I am positive Radar is comfortable with the arrangement otherwise they wouldn't be able to drop in the area. Melbourne Skydive also drop into Royal Park near the Melbourne zoo from time to time.
Cheers
O471
I'm guessing that there may have been a case for a better weather check here?
Skydivers rescued as wild winds take Melbourne by surprise
Skydivers rescued as wild winds take Melbourne by surprise
DRAMATIC footage has captured the moment skydivers were caught out as wild winds and thunderstorms lashed Melbourne.
A total 14 tandem skydivers were rescued after diving in wild weather at St Kilda foreshore.
Five people were treated with welts and abrasions after freefalling from 12,000 feet into hail and storm clouds.
Instructor Thomas Lumb said the weather turned to “armageddon” after they leapt from the plane.
“Once we were out, there was nothing we could do about it,” he said.
MFB confirmed two people were rescued while “struggling” in the water, their parachute still attached, after they were brought down by the storm at about 3pm.
Another 12 people were found at the foreshore after MFB conducted a land and sea search.
First-time skydiver Samuel Cunningham, 29, was covered from head to toe in red welts.
“It was very painful,” the Pakenham man said.
“It seemed all right on the way up, but when we jumped out everything went pear-shaped. We got pelted on the way down.”
Mr Cunningham and his instructor landed on the beach, about 1.5km away from the target landing spot.
Herald Sun reader Christian said he saw the skydivers “dropping like flies”.
“They were going way faster than usual and you could tell they were going to have a rough landing,” he said.
As the skydivers hurtled to the ground, Christian captured the heavy impact on his phone.
“The first one landed pretty heavily in the water, you can see it in the video,” he said.
“Then there was another one that landed on the patch of land in front of the Espy.”
Two people were taken to The Alfred hospital with minor injuries at 3.44pm, while another three were being assessed at the scene at 4pm.
Christian said about an hour before the storm hit he had walked past the Skydive the Beach outlet and asked one skydiver whether he’d be going up in the wild weather.
“He said they weren’t sure if they were still going up or not, but then about an hour later I was still walking around in the area and I noticed these four skydivers dropping like flies,” he said.
Mr Lumb said the instructors — all with skydiving experience — used radars and internet forecasts to track the weather.
But he said nothing had suggested a storm would hit during the jump.
In his seven years as an instructor, Mr Lumb said he had never experienced anything like the rapid weather change.
Only two of the tandem jumpers made it to the usual landing area at St Kilda Marina, with a couple landing on the beach, one coming down in the ocean and another landing in a park near the St Kilda Sea Baths.
Skydive the Beach owner Anthony Boucaut denied MFB reports that the skydivers had to be rescued.
He said the experienced divers decided on a soft landing on the sand and in shallow water when the wild weather hit.
“The 14 people rescued is absolute furphy,” he said.
“Never let a story get in the way of the truth.”
Two other skydive groups were booked in for the afternoon but have been cancelled with strong winds set to continue.
A total 14 tandem skydivers were rescued after diving in wild weather at St Kilda foreshore.
Five people were treated with welts and abrasions after freefalling from 12,000 feet into hail and storm clouds.
Instructor Thomas Lumb said the weather turned to “armageddon” after they leapt from the plane.
“Once we were out, there was nothing we could do about it,” he said.
MFB confirmed two people were rescued while “struggling” in the water, their parachute still attached, after they were brought down by the storm at about 3pm.
Another 12 people were found at the foreshore after MFB conducted a land and sea search.
First-time skydiver Samuel Cunningham, 29, was covered from head to toe in red welts.
“It was very painful,” the Pakenham man said.
“It seemed all right on the way up, but when we jumped out everything went pear-shaped. We got pelted on the way down.”
Mr Cunningham and his instructor landed on the beach, about 1.5km away from the target landing spot.
Herald Sun reader Christian said he saw the skydivers “dropping like flies”.
“They were going way faster than usual and you could tell they were going to have a rough landing,” he said.
As the skydivers hurtled to the ground, Christian captured the heavy impact on his phone.
“The first one landed pretty heavily in the water, you can see it in the video,” he said.
“Then there was another one that landed on the patch of land in front of the Espy.”
Two people were taken to The Alfred hospital with minor injuries at 3.44pm, while another three were being assessed at the scene at 4pm.
Christian said about an hour before the storm hit he had walked past the Skydive the Beach outlet and asked one skydiver whether he’d be going up in the wild weather.
“He said they weren’t sure if they were still going up or not, but then about an hour later I was still walking around in the area and I noticed these four skydivers dropping like flies,” he said.
Mr Lumb said the instructors — all with skydiving experience — used radars and internet forecasts to track the weather.
But he said nothing had suggested a storm would hit during the jump.
In his seven years as an instructor, Mr Lumb said he had never experienced anything like the rapid weather change.
Only two of the tandem jumpers made it to the usual landing area at St Kilda Marina, with a couple landing on the beach, one coming down in the ocean and another landing in a park near the St Kilda Sea Baths.
Skydive the Beach owner Anthony Boucaut denied MFB reports that the skydivers had to be rescued.
He said the experienced divers decided on a soft landing on the sand and in shallow water when the wild weather hit.
“The 14 people rescued is absolute furphy,” he said.
“Never let a story get in the way of the truth.”
Two other skydive groups were booked in for the afternoon but have been cancelled with strong winds set to continue.
Skydive the Beach owner Anthony Boucaut denied MFB reports that the skydivers had to be rescued.
The photo of the two tandem masters hugging and shaking hands says a lot, especially with the rubbish bins blown over in the background.
You'd have to have had your head in the sand to not know that weather was coming today ! So the hail just fell from the blue sky above did it???
That video looks like a normal video with someone trying to lose height normally.
They are damn lucky they didn't drown. Same as in NZ today.
That video looks like a normal video with someone trying to lose height normally.
They are damn lucky they didn't drown. Same as in NZ today.
How absolutely moronic that they were dropping chutes with CB's building over the Melbourne area at the time, which were on the TAF. Hopefully someone gets their ass kicked for this ... was one way to easily kill multiple people
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You gotta admit Melbourne weather was quite unpredictable today. I was sitting in Batman Park (I think that's what they call it) where the helipads are located. It was sunny, calm and warm, I was even handed a free ice-cream by Melbourne Trams who are doing major road works nearby.
Then I got up to go back and within 5 minutes it was p#ssing down, it came out of nowhere. I looked around and there were only a few largish cumulus clouds floating about like Zeppelins. I checked the BOM website and their rain radar only showed tiny spots of intense rain with lots of clear air, never seen this kind of phenomenon before, but this is Melbourne I guess.
Bad luck for the parachutists, I watch them regularly at Elwood and they are pretty good. Typical Herald Sun dribble, that's why I don't buy their newspaper.
Then I got up to go back and within 5 minutes it was p#ssing down, it came out of nowhere. I looked around and there were only a few largish cumulus clouds floating about like Zeppelins. I checked the BOM website and their rain radar only showed tiny spots of intense rain with lots of clear air, never seen this kind of phenomenon before, but this is Melbourne I guess.
Bad luck for the parachutists, I watch them regularly at Elwood and they are pretty good. Typical Herald Sun dribble, that's why I don't buy their newspaper.
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I just can't believe this sort of crap is still happening. Bad weather just don't appear from no where. Just pushing the gap to make an extra dollar.
Hopefully the APF board will take a few ratings for some time.
And no one landed in the water in NZ. The boats went to the aircraft expecting to find people then found everyone further up the beach and brought them back to where the road access was. Pilot had to be cut from large blackberry bush. Poor press reporting as usual.
FH.
Hopefully the APF board will take a few ratings for some time.
And no one landed in the water in NZ. The boats went to the aircraft expecting to find people then found everyone further up the beach and brought them back to where the road access was. Pilot had to be cut from large blackberry bush. Poor press reporting as usual.
FH.
They did the same thing 2 years ago while I was watching from the Melb F1 paddock. A big CB was rolling in from the west during F1 quali on Sat arvo, it was easily visible for a while and they still jumped, big squall line, made for interesting watching until they landed.
Seems they never learn or indeed look at the weather?
Seems they never learn or indeed look at the weather?
To experience falling through hail, unless it was travelling at a amazingly high front speed, you'd have dropped them into the top of it.
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Saw some great footage of the guy that went into the water on facebook. Stopped 10ft short of smashing into the pier. The sky looks about 5-6/8 so no excuse saying it crept up.
When you live....
It was unusual weather yesterday - the thunderstorms early in the afternoon were being created by the CBD. But by later in the afternoon they were general across the city.
I have posted before that I have concerns about the way these guys operate. I've seen them land off the DZ in the past - on the beach near Elwood life saving club. I've also seen them emerge from cloud, under canopy, very close to the C182 out of Williamstown.
I have posted before that I have concerns about the way these guys operate. I've seen them land off the DZ in the past - on the beach near Elwood life saving club. I've also seen them emerge from cloud, under canopy, very close to the C182 out of Williamstown.
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If a parachutist was hit by an aircraft, whose fault would it be? Not trying to start and argument, but would it be the pilot who could have been listening to another frequency and not heard them jump or the person controlling the canopy?
I opined that leaving EN before a call there and then going onto 132.1 or 135.7 after a call had been made there, would leave me oblivious to a jump happening. And I believe it unreasonable to have to avoid an area (which many MB operators now do) because of the commercial operation causing risk to others.
There are a number of pilots around who will attest to coming close to drops without having heard a 'warning' broadcast beforehand.
When you live....
there has to be coverage on 135.7, MB Tower, EN Tower, CTA broadcast, Yarra 132.1 and hope that everyone is listening and gets one of the calls