Northern Territory Aeromed Contract
The standard way of measuring accident rates is to consider the number of accidents (or fatalities) per x number of flying hours, so the size of the fleet is irrelevent.
Whilst there no doubt are many more twins about, I think most people would agree that there are enough C208 / TBM / PC12's etc. floating around now that they represent a pretty sizeable fleet in themselves.
Using the NTSB's figures from 1998 - 2007, single engine turboprops had one-third of the engine-related fatal accident rate of multi-engine turboprops.
That is a FACT.
Whilst there no doubt are many more twins about, I think most people would agree that there are enough C208 / TBM / PC12's etc. floating around now that they represent a pretty sizeable fleet in themselves.
Using the NTSB's figures from 1998 - 2007, single engine turboprops had one-third of the engine-related fatal accident rate of multi-engine turboprops.
That is a FACT.
My point wasn't about engine reliability, or a PC-12/B200 debate. A single engine aircraft will do all the same things a multi engine aircraft will do with the same equipment, no argument with that. Its an engine and they malfunction, in most cases it's as simple as an "O" ring, linkage, incorrect essembly or component.
The point I was making is that, if your flying around the territory at night, particularly in the wet season in a single engine aircraft and that engine stops, you're dead. To argue against that means you support acceptable losses, which is little comfort to the crew and medical staff who are exposed to that risk every day.
Had two of the four failures I have experienced in my career occurred in a single engine aircraft, there is no doubt I would not be here today, end of story.
The point I was making is that, if your flying around the territory at night, particularly in the wet season in a single engine aircraft and that engine stops, you're dead. To argue against that means you support acceptable losses, which is little comfort to the crew and medical staff who are exposed to that risk every day.
Had two of the four failures I have experienced in my career occurred in a single engine aircraft, there is no doubt I would not be here today, end of story.
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Any news on the interim contractor? I heard a bit of goss that an operator was supplying 4 King Airs with spectrum units of some sort, and that they had no need to recruit any new pilots from the current pearl guys as they already had their own crew, god only knows where they are coming from. Like I said, Overheard a bit of goss.. Can anyone confirm any of that?
AND
Can someone please just go and start a SE V's ME thread so we can have this one back.
DD
AND
Can someone please just go and start a SE V's ME thread so we can have this one back.
DD
Sprucegoose
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The PC-12 cabin is built to withstand a force of around 20G.
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Dances With Dingos, the goss is that 4 a/c are on their way from Poland, 4 spectrum units, all single stretcher a/c, 1 with a lifter.
DO NOT GET SICK AFTER JUNE!!!! if you are in the top end.
DO NOT GET SICK AFTER JUNE!!!! if you are in the top end.
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Well then it is a good thing the guys up there only lift one patient at a time then eh 
Any news on the jobs? And who will have the AOC they will be operating under?
DD
Any news on the jobs? And who will have the AOC they will be operating under?
DD
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Apologies to all for sending the thread back in the direction of twin vs. single, but I must pick rcoight up on a couple of things.
The statistic you are quoting may well be a FACT but it does nothing to address the question of which configuration one would rather be in when the inevitable engine failure occurs.
That statistic merely shows that it is better to be in the single when you make crash-like contact with the ground. We already knew this.
But the whole point is to avoid the crash part - and that is where the two engines come in.
Almost every engine failure in a single will result in crash-like contact with the ground, but not every engine failure in the twin will.
That statistic - as you have acknowledged - does not consider engine failures in the twin where the twin continued on to land safely.
We would like to see the statistic that does take this into account. That is exactly what The Green Goblin was saying. I think you misunderstood him.
They have 14-18 experienced King Air pilots sitting around with nothing else to do? Yeah, right.
The statistic you are quoting may well be a FACT but it does nothing to address the question of which configuration one would rather be in when the inevitable engine failure occurs.
That statistic merely shows that it is better to be in the single when you make crash-like contact with the ground. We already knew this.
But the whole point is to avoid the crash part - and that is where the two engines come in.
Almost every engine failure in a single will result in crash-like contact with the ground, but not every engine failure in the twin will.
That statistic - as you have acknowledged - does not consider engine failures in the twin where the twin continued on to land safely.
We would like to see the statistic that does take this into account. That is exactly what The Green Goblin was saying. I think you misunderstood him.
... they had no need to recruit any new pilots from the current pearl guys as they already had their own crew, god only knows where they are coming from ...
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appreciate you wanting to discuss twin/single but this is not a thread on that.
Those that are caught up in this debarcle require this thread and others like it to air our situation and gain information. This is the depth we have reached when we can only get answers from a rumour network.
Those that are caught up in this debarcle require this thread and others like it to air our situation and gain information. This is the depth we have reached when we can only get answers from a rumour network.
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This thread is about airmedical work, and there are airmedical operators that operate single engined aircraft, and others that operate twin engined aircraft. It is appropriate to discuss such things on this thread. It is relevent.
It appears that some are uncomfortable discussing this.
It appears that some are uncomfortable discussing this.
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Please stick to the SUBJECT
Hey you guys with the big chip on your shoulder!!!! This aint about PC12's. Never was!! The tender document clearly states the requirement for multiengine turboprops! OK?!?!?
The rumour for the interim contract has it that the ol' AUSJET guys have the fixed wing portion. Are these guys up to the task? Are their single stretcher set-ups gonna be able to handle the work?
Seems that the Pearl guys were struggling with a dual stretcher configuration according to the NT Guvmen'.
I take it that most of us saw the segment on sixty minutes last night. How are the Careflight guys (read management) going with the bad publicity.
A westwind sitting on the bottom of the ocan with Careflight written on the side!!!
The rumour for the interim contract has it that the ol' AUSJET guys have the fixed wing portion. Are these guys up to the task? Are their single stretcher set-ups gonna be able to handle the work?
Seems that the Pearl guys were struggling with a dual stretcher configuration according to the NT Guvmen'.
I take it that most of us saw the segment on sixty minutes last night. How are the Careflight guys (read management) going with the bad publicity.
A westwind sitting on the bottom of the ocan with Careflight written on the side!!!
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Dual stretchers are not isolated to the NTAMS contract.
They work fine apart from being a pain in the armpit.
My guess is that it is political. Pearl could continue during the interim until the new Tender is in action. A/c, facilities in place. go figure.
They work fine apart from being a pain in the armpit.
My guess is that it is political. Pearl could continue during the interim until the new Tender is in action. A/c, facilities in place. go figure.
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The tender document clearly states the requirement for multiengine turboprops! OK?!?!?
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The tender states the initial bid is for a twin engine airframe, alternatives can then be made be it single or multi.
eg
Option 1 Be200
Option 2 Pilatus PC 12
Option 3 Bloody walk
eg
Option 1 Be200
Option 2 Pilatus PC 12
Option 3 Bloody walk
The NT govt will put all the responses to the tender out on a matrix and choose which options will give what they perceive to be the best bang for their buck.
They will look at various things not just only the bottom dollar.
But all things considered there are already PC12's in the state operating (see EMS fixed wing out of ASP), so that sort of already does set a precedence you would have to think (rightly or wrongly).
As for the rotary component it will be interesting to see what airframe they invest their biccies into.
Best everyone takes the emotion out of it, it's just another contract. And nothing's a given until it's announced. Just remember an interim contract doesn't necessarily mean that their foot is firmly in the door for the long term contract (read careflight).
They will look at various things not just only the bottom dollar.
But all things considered there are already PC12's in the state operating (see EMS fixed wing out of ASP), so that sort of already does set a precedence you would have to think (rightly or wrongly).
As for the rotary component it will be interesting to see what airframe they invest their biccies into.
Best everyone takes the emotion out of it, it's just another contract. And nothing's a given until it's announced. Just remember an interim contract doesn't necessarily mean that their foot is firmly in the door for the long term contract (read careflight).
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Cloke and Dager
They will look at various things not just only the bottom dollar.
k around, argue, shift blame, cover their arses, pass the buck and then finally, GO WITH THE CHEAPEST OPTION. That is one theory.
Another is, RFDS SE are advertising. But I thought they were going to have to find places for the Vic Air Ambo pilots that will be soon be replaces by Pel Air.
May be a bit of a stretch but is the SE section starting to crew up for a possible bid for the NT contract? They did after all download a copy of the contract and they are capable of providing the twin engine requirement. Unlike Central and Western sections.
I Love a good conspiracy.
DD
Last edited by Dances With Dingoes; 8th Mar 2010 at 20:28.
