What is ICUS
ICUS = the holy grail for unscrupulous operators who hire inexperienced gullable Pilots who are willing to work for less to get into something 'shiney' instead of the traditional route with the promise of ICUS when it's time for a command upgrade. After 3 years of the right hand seat with no command time and no prospects of an upgrade the word ICUS aint so promising anymore.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wherever the work is!
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ICUS = the holy grail for unscrupulous operators who hire inexperienced gullable Pilots who are willing to work for less to get into something 'shiney'
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: I come from the land downunder
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good idea, but unless implemented in some sort of military framework, I daresay completely flawed.
(Now for my attempt at humour, sic)
It's actually an Aussie b*stardisation of a kiwi term for "yes mate" - which they would say as "aye cuz"... ICUS....
I know, flame on.
And before anyone from NZ says anything, I have lived there, and did come back saying bro, cuz, mean, and I have a whopping huge Maori inspired tattoo.
(Now for my attempt at humour, sic)
It's actually an Aussie b*stardisation of a kiwi term for "yes mate" - which they would say as "aye cuz"... ICUS....
I know, flame on.
And before anyone from NZ says anything, I have lived there, and did come back saying bro, cuz, mean, and I have a whopping huge Maori inspired tattoo.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, the above comments are valid and you should be warry about forking out money for "ICUS" with certain dodgy companies but its still NOT what ICUS is for.
The purpose of ICUS is to build up the required hours on type to fly as a part of operating crew. A fairly standard figure for most types is 50 hours.
The purpose of ICUS is to build up the required hours on type to fly as a part of operating crew. A fairly standard figure for most types is 50 hours.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Used to be 100 hours for an Islander in the Solomons, until a proposal to halve that was approved reluctantly. Civil Aviation and Sol Airlines had such a poor opinion of a pilots learning ability.. Made making an Islander captain a long drawn out, expensive process..
It's when you act as the captain of the aircraft while under the supervision of another captain. You should be making all decisions regarding the conduct of the flight. It can be a way for an FO to gain command time to meet various requirements (company, CASA, insurance etc.)
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NZ
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about the ICUS supervisor? (The PIC). Do they still log the hours as full PIC hours in Oz?
I know in NZ, the PIC supervising a pilot undergoing "command training" (NZ version of ICUS) can not log those hours towards a higher licence (ATPL)
I know in NZ, the PIC supervising a pilot undergoing "command training" (NZ version of ICUS) can not log those hours towards a higher licence (ATPL)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
Age: 83
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ICUS
As usual, a Flight Engineer has to point the way.
In Command Under Supervision (ICUS)
means the flight time a co-pilot may log when performing the duties and functions of a pilot in command under the supervision of a pilot in command authorised by the operator of the aircraft for that purpose.
Note: Conditions required for ICUS to be credited are listed in CAR 5.40.
In Command Under Supervision (ICUS) Includes all flight time when assigned as co-pilot acting in command under supervision as defined above:ICUS may be logged as follows:
a) in log books with single and multi-engine ICUS columns, the flight time is logged accordingly and is included in the Grand Total Hours;
b) if the log book does not have an ICUS column then ICUS may be logged in the Pilot in Command column as long as it is clearly identified as ICUS and the pilot in command is also identified;
c) alternatively, another unused column may be used to log ICUS.
Note: Pilots must ensure their log book records allow for accurate calculation of separate ICUS and PIC flight time totals.
This seems pretty clear to me, at least in Australia.
In Command Under Supervision (ICUS)
means the flight time a co-pilot may log when performing the duties and functions of a pilot in command under the supervision of a pilot in command authorised by the operator of the aircraft for that purpose.
Note: Conditions required for ICUS to be credited are listed in CAR 5.40.
In Command Under Supervision (ICUS) Includes all flight time when assigned as co-pilot acting in command under supervision as defined above:ICUS may be logged as follows:
a) in log books with single and multi-engine ICUS columns, the flight time is logged accordingly and is included in the Grand Total Hours;
b) if the log book does not have an ICUS column then ICUS may be logged in the Pilot in Command column as long as it is clearly identified as ICUS and the pilot in command is also identified;
c) alternatively, another unused column may be used to log ICUS.
Note: Pilots must ensure their log book records allow for accurate calculation of separate ICUS and PIC flight time totals.
This seems pretty clear to me, at least in Australia.
Last edited by Old Fella; 13th Jul 2014 at 07:00. Reason: Addition
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NZ
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So to answer the question, the PIC still logs the hours commanding a pilot undergoing ICUS as full PIC hours?
Like if a pilot has a lot of time COMMANDING other ICUS pilots (e.g training them up), they can still log that time towards an ATPL under the Australian rules?
Like if a pilot has a lot of time COMMANDING other ICUS pilots (e.g training them up), they can still log that time towards an ATPL under the Australian rules?
This is what happens when counter-intuitive terms are used in an attempt to create the condition of half pregnant.
It would make more sense if it were called Pilot Under Supervision Simulating Command.
The pilot being supervised logs PUSSC, and must differentiate that time from actual PIC time, and identify the supervising PIC, in the logbook.
The supervising pilot is the PIC so logs the time as PIC.
Whether the hours criterion for a qualification differentiates between time as PIC supervising PUSSCs and other PIC time: dunno and couldn't be bothered checking.
It would make more sense if it were called Pilot Under Supervision Simulating Command.
The pilot being supervised logs PUSSC, and must differentiate that time from actual PIC time, and identify the supervising PIC, in the logbook.
The supervising pilot is the PIC so logs the time as PIC.
Whether the hours criterion for a qualification differentiates between time as PIC supervising PUSSCs and other PIC time: dunno and couldn't be bothered checking.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
Age: 83
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PIC - ICUS
Folks, it does not seem to me to be ambiguous. Surely, if a pilot is under supervision he or she is being supervised by one in higher authority. It really should not take a Rhodes scholar to determine that when a pilot is acting as pilot "In Command Under Supervision" he is training or being assessed to be promoted to act as PIC subject to meeting a predetermined competency level.
The "Supervising" pilot is the actual "Pilot in Command" and is the one with responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight. Seems fair enough to me and I fail to see why the supervisory pilot should not log his hours as PIC. Obviously, if Kopity has it correct, the NZ authorities have a different view and that is their business. How they justify their view is of interest all the same.
The "Supervising" pilot is the actual "Pilot in Command" and is the one with responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight. Seems fair enough to me and I fail to see why the supervisory pilot should not log his hours as PIC. Obviously, if Kopity has it correct, the NZ authorities have a different view and that is their business. How they justify their view is of interest all the same.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
Age: 83
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Creampuff Questions.
Oh no Creampuff, not your semantics again? I know you like stirring the pot but it does become tedious. At my age I try to use what brain cells I have, still in working order, productively. I don't wish to try and justify every comment I make.
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NZ
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ok thanks for your input. Yeah it's a bit of a funny rule I agree, If a pilot is ensuring the safe outcome of the flight and is technically and operationally the PIC then why shouldn't they be entitled to use that PIC time towards an ATPL!
the rule is here:
http://www.caa.govt.nz/rules/Rule......solidation.pdf
61.31 (j)
It does however only apply if the aeroplane is a single pilot required aircraft, so I suppose the reasoning is that the PIC sits back and watches while the trainee fights the leans and the turbulence and does all the work... in reality though the trainee needs constant help, hence "under supervision"...
Anyway, so no one knows of any rules of similar kind in Oz it seems..?
I couldn't find any in all the law texts.
the rule is here:
http://www.caa.govt.nz/rules/Rule......solidation.pdf
61.31 (j)
It does however only apply if the aeroplane is a single pilot required aircraft, so I suppose the reasoning is that the PIC sits back and watches while the trainee fights the leans and the turbulence and does all the work... in reality though the trainee needs constant help, hence "under supervision"...
Anyway, so no one knows of any rules of similar kind in Oz it seems..?
I couldn't find any in all the law texts.
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NZ
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts