Aerospace Aviation
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Aerospace Aviation
Just read the article on the Daily Tele website:-
Pilot pupils left grounded after flight school collapse | The Daily Telegraph
Looks like Aerospace has also folded just like SFTC !
I did my GFPT there years ago, the quality has dropped significantly since then to the point of becoming a continental deli of sorts.
What a bunch of theives.
Looks like a lot of student visas will be cancelled very soon.
Pitts
Pilot pupils left grounded after flight school collapse | The Daily Telegraph
Looks like Aerospace has also folded just like SFTC !
I did my GFPT there years ago, the quality has dropped significantly since then to the point of becoming a continental deli of sorts.
What a bunch of theives.
Looks like a lot of student visas will be cancelled very soon.
Pitts
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The article cited their collapse being due to the "current financial environment". That's understandable if the school didn't have any cash flow from student enrolments, but here we have students who are already enrolled and have already paid their course in advance! You really can't blame the global financial crisis for this! 
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without any access to their records, one can only speculate. For any company (big or small), cashflow is the key. When you read that the majority of students had paid in advance (they should have read this forum first! 
), it probably infers that they didn't allocate their c/flows correctly. the tendency when an entity collects a lot of funds in advance, is to spend spend spend without regard to what the funds are actually for which, in this case, includes FUEL, unless you have someone who knows what they're doing.....apparently I don't think they did.
Pretty dodgy that the director is able to 'up and go' without due regard to the unpaid creditors from his past endeavour. C'mon ASIC...do your f###ing job.
), it probably infers that they didn't allocate their c/flows correctly. the tendency when an entity collects a lot of funds in advance, is to spend spend spend without regard to what the funds are actually for which, in this case, includes FUEL, unless you have someone who knows what they're doing.....apparently I don't think they did. Pretty dodgy that the director is able to 'up and go' without due regard to the unpaid creditors from his past endeavour. C'mon ASIC...do your f###ing job.
Fair go guys
Almost all of that article is about Barry Diamond and SFTC.
As far as Aerospace is concerned, back in the 1990s it [edit]seemed like[/edit] an excellent school.
Several of my contemporaries trained there and they became excellent pilots.
Almost all of them are now in Qantas or Cathay - that may be good or bad but that was their goal and the standard of the training they received helped make their goal attainable.
Don't scoff or crow, the Charter business you work for or your flying school may be next to go under.
As far as Aerospace is concerned, back in the 1990s it [edit]seemed like[/edit] an excellent school.
Several of my contemporaries trained there and they became excellent pilots.
Almost all of them are now in Qantas or Cathay - that may be good or bad but that was their goal and the standard of the training they received helped make their goal attainable.
Don't scoff or crow, the Charter business you work for or your flying school may be next to go under.
Last edited by Horatio Leafblower; 17th Jun 2010 at 09:29. Reason: Reviewed opinion after speaking to former colleagues...
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GA: the greatest Asshole Magnet
Ive noticed after spending about 5.5 years working in GA, that it somehow seems to attract every last asshole.
What is it about planes and assholes?
I have seen so many people who have been ripped off, lied to, exploited and abused its staggering.
These people make it a constant **** fight. My friends and family who work in other industries are constantly amazed when they hear the stories of the soft white-underbelly of the necessary evil of GA..
Who knows? Maybe in 20 years, when all these pricks responsible have retired or died, GA may be a nice, decent industry to work in.
I wonder.
What is it about planes and assholes?
I have seen so many people who have been ripped off, lied to, exploited and abused its staggering.
These people make it a constant **** fight. My friends and family who work in other industries are constantly amazed when they hear the stories of the soft white-underbelly of the necessary evil of GA..
Who knows? Maybe in 20 years, when all these pricks responsible have retired or died, GA may be a nice, decent industry to work in.
I wonder.
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C'mon ASIC...do your f###ing job
The last company I worked for went under earlier this year (4 months after I walked away
) with so much impropriety and dodgy transactions, creditors all pushed for ASIC and the ATO to investigate, evidence was presented, and yet nothing came of it, because it was too small for them, the ATO was owed $500k +++ and their response basically suggested they had bigger fish to fry.
They ignored the fact that there was a total debt of almost $2m.Now the director is trading under a different name, even though he bankrupt!! Once again, no one seems to care, not even the administrator...
This BS will keep going on until the authorities get tough and enforce the law, and unfortunately, people will continue to get burnt.
I really feel sorry for those students, unpaid workers, and the unpaid creditors. It can really significantly change a persons life.
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sure, that article mentions all the students affected and I do feel very sorry for them- because I myself was a former student at AA and know alot who were attending in the past few weeks.
It makes no mention of employees (instructors,admin etc) who have lost their jobs now- likely not paid the last few weeks/months salaries due to a lack of funds and are now jobless in what is an immensly tough climate in our industry even for the G1 guys.
Just thought id make it a bit fair and balanced as I knew some really decent instructors at both schools who have obviously like the students come out for the worse..
It makes no mention of employees (instructors,admin etc) who have lost their jobs now- likely not paid the last few weeks/months salaries due to a lack of funds and are now jobless in what is an immensly tough climate in our industry even for the G1 guys.
Just thought id make it a bit fair and balanced as I knew some really decent instructors at both schools who have obviously like the students come out for the worse..
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Dodgy Operators will always be in GA as long as there are punters whose only priority is to get the cheapest flying as quick as possible.
The Dodgy Operators just set their prices noticably cheaper than everywhere else and sit back and wait for suckers to part with $60k+ upfront.
I'm not really blaming the victims here but in 30 years of GA ive seen this happen so many times......
The old saying goes: "If it's too good to be true than it usually is", comes to mind.
Didn't any of the students ever ask themselves why the prices were so much lower than the competition?.
Were the staff totally 100% ignorant of how the school was run - or did they keep the blinkers on?....
Incredibly, CASA will again issue this person an AOC and ASIC will allow the company to run.
Maybe i'm being too hard on CASA - not their job..
Every company's costs are about the same: Fuel, landing fees, Insurance etc., So when a company sets prices lower than the others, something has to give. Eventually the company becomes a 'ponzi' type operation, kept running only on new students large deposits. As soon as student numbers slow down, the money tree dies and the company folds.
The steady operators are still in business, have been for many years and hopefully will continue to do so.
I don't know the owners of SFTC or AA but it sounds like one of the ex-owners is again in business and (believe me!) - will again set the cheapest prices and sit back while suckers throw money his way.
Anyone who has the urge to hand over life savings (theirs or their parent's) - please limit payments to $5k - $10k only. -It doesn't hurt as much
The Dodgy Operators just set their prices noticably cheaper than everywhere else and sit back and wait for suckers to part with $60k+ upfront.
I'm not really blaming the victims here but in 30 years of GA ive seen this happen so many times......
The old saying goes: "If it's too good to be true than it usually is", comes to mind.
Didn't any of the students ever ask themselves why the prices were so much lower than the competition?.
Were the staff totally 100% ignorant of how the school was run - or did they keep the blinkers on?....
Incredibly, CASA will again issue this person an AOC and ASIC will allow the company to run.
Maybe i'm being too hard on CASA - not their job..
Every company's costs are about the same: Fuel, landing fees, Insurance etc., So when a company sets prices lower than the others, something has to give. Eventually the company becomes a 'ponzi' type operation, kept running only on new students large deposits. As soon as student numbers slow down, the money tree dies and the company folds.
The steady operators are still in business, have been for many years and hopefully will continue to do so.
I don't know the owners of SFTC or AA but it sounds like one of the ex-owners is again in business and (believe me!) - will again set the cheapest prices and sit back while suckers throw money his way.
Anyone who has the urge to hand over life savings (theirs or their parent's) - please limit payments to $5k - $10k only. -It doesn't hurt as much
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RFG,
Great advice for all the new pilots. I agree, never hand over lump sums to offers of "Airline training", unless its Cathay, Qantas, BA etc and employment contract is signed. You will be offered all types of incentives but history has always proven that upfront payment only helps the operator and you put yourself in a HIGH risk position.
RFG knows what he talking about.
Well said RFG.
Great advice for all the new pilots. I agree, never hand over lump sums to offers of "Airline training", unless its Cathay, Qantas, BA etc and employment contract is signed. You will be offered all types of incentives but history has always proven that upfront payment only helps the operator and you put yourself in a HIGH risk position.
RFG knows what he talking about.
Well said RFG.
Who knows? Maybe in 20 years, when all these pricks responsible have retired or died, GA may be a nice, decent industry to work in.
This doesn't relate to Aerospace or SFTC btw but the only qualification you need in Aviation is money and lots of it. Enthusiasm can only go so far in making up for a lack of qualifications, aviation and business accumen.
There is a qualification for the enthusiasts however: we have a "Private Pilot Licence" which allows self-deluding amatuers and enthusiasts to believe they have what it takes to make a living from the business. If they have enough money they might even have a Commercial Pilots Licence, although often you'll hear them admit "Ive never used it".
If you have a First Aid ticket you can't hire 5 newly graduated doctors and start a doctor's surgery.
Incredibly, CASA will again issue this person an AOC and ASIC will allow the company to run.
Some very cheap training aircraft coming onto the market early in the new year. 3 years ago (in the middle of the Indian Gold Rush) you would pay $55k for a good C152 - now with SFTC and Aerospace's fleets that is going to be closer to $20k
Last edited by Horatio Leafblower; 16th Dec 2009 at 19:27.
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Nice first post, Want2goFlying
...since it's your first post and you're a worldly 19 years of age I'm going to cut you some slack and suggest some of these contributors have a lot more experience than you.
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I'm more than 19 and been in the industry for quite some so you can stick your slack where the sun don't shine. I am just so sick of reading so many "opinions" and ill informed ones at that. There are some shonky operators no doubt, but don't broad brush everyone. What do you know about either of these situations? When you are slightly more informed, get back to me.
Want2Go
I'm more than 19 and been in the industry for quite some (time)
Last edited by Horatio Leafblower; 17th Jun 2010 at 09:30. Reason: Altered opinion in light of evidence...
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What?
Quote: Horatio Leafblower
If you have a First Aid ticket you can't hire 5 newly graduated doctors and start a doctor's surgery.
If you have a First Aid ticket you can't hire 5 newly graduated doctors and start a doctor's surgery.
Aviation is much more heavily regulated than industries in the 'real world'.
Seriously though, does anyone know where the fleets are being sold up or who the administrators are? Maybe there's some bargains to be had...
Some very cheap training aircraft coming onto the market early in the new year. 3 years ago (in the middle of the Indian Gold Rush) you would pay $55k for a good C152 - now with SFTC and Aerospace's fleets that is going to be closer to $20k
When they went tits up the first time all of the Warriors were returned to GFS in Melbourne, I think it was, and the Arrows all went back to their owners.
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re sftc fleet
Nope, the Liberty fleet was purchased by SFTC.
That was probably one of the many factors that contributed to the collapse.
It appears that unfortunately some very bad management decisions were made in that company.
Its a real good idea to buy 12 new aircraft in one go, at $240 000 a piece..
That was probably one of the many factors that contributed to the collapse.
It appears that unfortunately some very bad management decisions were made in that company.
Its a real good idea to buy 12 new aircraft in one go, at $240 000 a piece..
Dunno.
There was a valuer from an auction house in my part of the world on Tuesday am and he had a list of Liberties, C152s and some C172s to go through.
The C152s have been here for more than 12 months, the bill for their last 100 hourly never got paid and so... *shrug*
There was a valuer from an auction house in my part of the world on Tuesday am and he had a list of Liberties, C152s and some C172s to go through.
The C152s have been here for more than 12 months, the bill for their last 100 hourly never got paid and so... *shrug*
to buy planes in auction
any idea where n how to buy those STFC or AA planes at 20k or any amount?? who to contact?? i'd love to hv one of the C172 or Arrow....any pointers??