Cloud Seeding Cessna 310 Moorabbin 1980's
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Cloud Seeding Cessna 310 Moorabbin 1980's
Had a discussion recently about cloud seeding operations in th 1980's using a Cessna 310 from Moorabbin. Does anyone have any more information of that operation such as how long did it go for, what were the various pilot's names, where did they do the seeding, etc
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Not directly related to your question Centaurus but of historical note, the CSIRO owned and used a 310 (VH-REK) back in the late 1950s for cloud seeding.
Later spent nearly seven years in New Guinea being flown by a Catholic Priest, the late Father JGA Flynn, before being finally relocated at Bankstown.
Was extensively rebuilt in 1994 and acquired by HARS in late 1996. Believe it was the first GA aircraft, as opposed to airline and military, to have approval for IMC operations in Oz.
Later spent nearly seven years in New Guinea being flown by a Catholic Priest, the late Father JGA Flynn, before being finally relocated at Bankstown.
Was extensively rebuilt in 1994 and acquired by HARS in late 1996. Believe it was the first GA aircraft, as opposed to airline and military, to have approval for IMC operations in Oz.
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There used to be a C320 (Skyknight) VH-DRK doing survey work in those times, unsure of the cloud seeding though.
It was in a sorry state for a long time in the GAM graveyard at Essendon.
Not sure what happened to it, but it definitely didn't fly out.
As a matter of interest, what was the difference between the 310 and 320,
apart from 10 in case those of you wish to state the bleedin' obvious?
It was in a sorry state for a long time in the GAM graveyard at Essendon.
Not sure what happened to it, but it definitely didn't fly out.
As a matter of interest, what was the difference between the 310 and 320,
apart from 10 in case those of you wish to state the bleedin' obvious?
I believe the 320 is basically a turbocharged 310. There also appears to be a difference in the side windows.
Don't think there's much more than that.
Probably more fuel in the 320 but don't quote me.
Don't think there's much more than that.
Probably more fuel in the 320 but don't quote me.
Hi Centaurus
There were 3 C310 rainmakers that I know of; VH-AER, VH-REK and VH-REL.
REK and REL taken at the end of their delivery flight on 5 Dec 57:
At Tamworth with rainmaker Hudson VH-EWR:
VH-AER is preserved by the Moorabbin Air Museum.
VH-REK is preserved by HARS.
C320 VH-DRK was last reported in Denis Beahan's yard at Roma in 2003.
Another lesser-known rainmaker is Beagle 206 VH-UNL which is preserved at the Queensland Air Museum.
Rgds
There were 3 C310 rainmakers that I know of; VH-AER, VH-REK and VH-REL.
REK and REL taken at the end of their delivery flight on 5 Dec 57:
At Tamworth with rainmaker Hudson VH-EWR:
VH-AER is preserved by the Moorabbin Air Museum.
VH-REK is preserved by HARS.
C320 VH-DRK was last reported in Denis Beahan's yard at Roma in 2003.
Another lesser-known rainmaker is Beagle 206 VH-UNL which is preserved at the Queensland Air Museum.
Rgds
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Par Avion from Hobart had a PA31P VH-BSF based at MB for that contract. I think the resident pilot was Lance Scott.
REL did a contract in Hobart about '64 or '65. Mike Hunt was the pilot. Remember seeing it on lake Pedder beach around that time.
REL did a contract in Hobart about '64 or '65. Mike Hunt was the pilot. Remember seeing it on lake Pedder beach around that time.
Slight Drift.....
I remember one of the 310's doing a 'wheels up' on the grass at Mascot.
Can't remember the date.
It was planned, in that the pilot did fly around and use up fuel, then made the approach, stopped both engines, and used the starter motor to align both of the 2 bladed props in the horizontal position - thus minimising the engine damage.
SMH of the day gave praise all round and reported the airframe damage to be minimal.
Sounds like a job 'well done'..??
p.s. Tch tch.... Mr Frisbie....
I remember one of the 310's doing a 'wheels up' on the grass at Mascot.
Can't remember the date.
It was planned, in that the pilot did fly around and use up fuel, then made the approach, stopped both engines, and used the starter motor to align both of the 2 bladed props in the horizontal position - thus minimising the engine damage.
SMH of the day gave praise all round and reported the airframe damage to be minimal.
Sounds like a job 'well done'..??
p.s. Tch tch.... Mr Frisbie....
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Cessna 310 cloud seeding 1980's
Centaurus:
Not sure about the 1980's but in 1966 and 1967 I did a lot of flying on cloud seeding in Cessna 310's, VH-TTM, VH-AER and VH-RLY. It was done for the CSIRO and we operated mainly from Dubbo, meeting the weather fronts out at the South Australian / New South Wales border and if they were suitable, then we would seed them until the front left the New South Wales Pacific coast. If weather came in from either the North or South we would do the same thing.
It was good for the IF training and Ice handling.
Tmb
Not sure about the 1980's but in 1966 and 1967 I did a lot of flying on cloud seeding in Cessna 310's, VH-TTM, VH-AER and VH-RLY. It was done for the CSIRO and we operated mainly from Dubbo, meeting the weather fronts out at the South Australian / New South Wales border and if they were suitable, then we would seed them until the front left the New South Wales Pacific coast. If weather came in from either the North or South we would do the same thing.
It was good for the IF training and Ice handling.
Tmb
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Wheels up at Mascot C310
EX FSO GRIFFO:
I do not know who to or when this happened but I do recall people in my younger days talking about such an incident.
My own incident at Mascot was in November 1965 and had to land with a magnetometer "Bomb" trailing behind and below the aircraft. It closed the airport for a time.
Tmb
I do not know who to or when this happened but I do recall people in my younger days talking about such an incident.
My own incident at Mascot was in November 1965 and had to land with a magnetometer "Bomb" trailing behind and below the aircraft. It closed the airport for a time.
Tmb
Bill Surh of Peninsular Air Services owned VH-REL in the late sixties and early seventies at Moorabbin. 'REL' was indeed an ex cloud-seeder and he also, later,(1970?) had a contract with the CSIRO for seeding, using a Twin Bonanza, VH-CLO an ex Conellan machine. Very little use was made of it in the cloud-seeding mode. I cannot remember why. The 310B was a totally different animal to later 310s' especially the 'Q' onwards, but great fun to fly, very light in roll. I saw 'REL' in Hamilton in the early eighties while visiting the Ansett Museum. The pilots for the CSIRO contract were Bill himself and John Fleming. Sadly both were subsequently killed in aircraft accidents. 'CLO' was painted two-tone blue with the CSIRO badge on the rear fuselage and fin. After the contract ended the aircraft was painted in a yellow scheme and ended its days on the Cairns fire dump.
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By George, you may well be correct. C310 VH-REL I believe was derelict in a paddock west of Branxholme Vic (sth of HML) in late '80's having been owned by a now former local identity, Tom Francis (previous owner of PA24-400 PYM among others). Don't know of circumstances now.
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Ahhh eighties GA in EN/MB. Such memories.
the C320 was a larger cabin than the 310.....I think. Certainly different windows. I remember the green DRK lurking around EN.
And another green machine. A navajo from out west, WBL I think. Was it SOW?
Skybird back then was kind of a central point for a lot of EN GA and certainly turboprops and jets. Anyone remember N133LE commonly known as nibble? CIII I think it was.
the C320 was a larger cabin than the 310.....I think. Certainly different windows. I remember the green DRK lurking around EN.
And another green machine. A navajo from out west, WBL I think. Was it SOW?
Skybird back then was kind of a central point for a lot of EN GA and certainly turboprops and jets. Anyone remember N133LE commonly known as nibble? CIII I think it was.
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Bill Surh of Peninsular Air Services owned VH-REL in the late sixties and early seventies at Moorabbin. 'REL' was indeed an ex cloud-seeder and he also, later,(1970?) had a contract with the CSIRO for seeding, using a Twin Bonanza, VH-CLO an ex Conellan machine. Very little use was made of it in the cloud-seeding mode. I cannot remember why.
Bit of a "cursed" aircraft.
VH-REL was my first twin endorsement and it's interesting to compare how we use to fly them. I was reading on another thread about a member looking for a Navajo checklist. We just started the engines, used "TEMPFSCH" and took off. I hired a light twin last month, when home on leave, and the checklist was like something out of the Space Shuttle. In regards to the ferry of 'REL' and 'REK' from the States I think Gordon Howe was one of the pilots.
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C320 was a turbo charged version of the C310. Then Cessna made all the series turbo charged which made the C320 redundant and it went out of production.
There were differences in the windows and also in the position of the rear bulkhead which changed the available cabin volume a little, but usually the changes were available in either model.
The external dimensions (span, length etc) were the same for each model.
I fly both at present and even though they are identical in external size, it is easy to be fooled when looking at the cabin. One has a ski tube but has the bulkhead further forward, one has a higher cabin roof over the pilot station, one has a two piece windscreen etc. One has a takeoff weight of 5670lb and the other is 5300 lb, but the useful load is about the same.
What I like about the C320 is that it has 285hp engines and is very quiet. It flies to about 25,000 feet and burns 32 gph while the C310 has 325 hp RAMs and can go higher (30,000 feet?) burning 36 gph but is so noisy it drives me mad after a few hours, even with a noise-cancelling headset.
Both are really fun to fly, and can be operated out of 3000 feet gravel strips safely, with good single engine performance if required. If you don't worry about engine failure, they can fly out of 2000 feet strips, although I usually use flap then, and pull them into the air early to avoid prop damage from rocks.
And if you have flown either, you already know the cabin heaters will have stopped working long before you reach 25,000 feet.
Parts are hard to get and expensive. We have not had the spars done, but I think all the ones in Aus have been modified?
If you get a chance to fly one, go for it. I guarantee you will love it.
There were differences in the windows and also in the position of the rear bulkhead which changed the available cabin volume a little, but usually the changes were available in either model.
The external dimensions (span, length etc) were the same for each model.
I fly both at present and even though they are identical in external size, it is easy to be fooled when looking at the cabin. One has a ski tube but has the bulkhead further forward, one has a higher cabin roof over the pilot station, one has a two piece windscreen etc. One has a takeoff weight of 5670lb and the other is 5300 lb, but the useful load is about the same.
What I like about the C320 is that it has 285hp engines and is very quiet. It flies to about 25,000 feet and burns 32 gph while the C310 has 325 hp RAMs and can go higher (30,000 feet?) burning 36 gph but is so noisy it drives me mad after a few hours, even with a noise-cancelling headset.
Both are really fun to fly, and can be operated out of 3000 feet gravel strips safely, with good single engine performance if required. If you don't worry about engine failure, they can fly out of 2000 feet strips, although I usually use flap then, and pull them into the air early to avoid prop damage from rocks.
And if you have flown either, you already know the cabin heaters will have stopped working long before you reach 25,000 feet.
Parts are hard to get and expensive. We have not had the spars done, but I think all the ones in Aus have been modified?
If you get a chance to fly one, go for it. I guarantee you will love it.
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Cloud Seeding 1980's
Seem to remember a pilot by the name of Ray Samson? from Cobar NSW doing cloud seeding back in the 70's in a 310 FYW. Anybody else that can confirm this
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Civil Flying Services had a contact for cloud seeding in 1969 over Victoria using Beech Barons. They also had a tip tanked Bonanza at Roma.
CFJ was one and there was one other, but cant recall the rego. CFJ was I recall, BIB at one stage when Bib Stillwell owned Civil. He later put that rego on his Lear.
Peter Bini did a fair bit of cloud seeding in the Baron out Nhill way for a few seasons. Barry ?? was another regular then... He later went to Civils in WA as did the Baron. And I think it was a bit earlier than '69. Maybe 67??
Yes, those days at MB were great.. nothing like today (sadly)