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DFRDB/MSBS Indexation -Heads Up for ex-ADF people

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DFRDB/MSBS Indexation -Heads Up for ex-ADF people

Old 8th Nov 2009, 12:47
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DFRDB/MSBS Indexation -Heads Up for ex-ADF people

Interesting discussion on the hidden agenda for hiding the disappointing and inequitable outcome of the Matthew's report on indexation of DFRDB pensions etc (a KRUDD pre-Election promise that fizzled).

is at this link
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 01:02
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Back to the top

Keep thinking about this when you are advising your son, daughter, niece or nephew whether or not to join the ADF as a career (short or long)
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Old 30th Nov 2009, 21:43
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I wouldn't let that put you off a career in Defence. However forewarned is forearmed! As I have stated on other threads, my advice is to contribute the bare minimum to MSBS and salary sacrifice to another superannuation fund of your choice. Should MSBS start performing like a real super fund should (ain't holding my breath!) you could always roll the funds from the other fund into it.
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Old 1st Dec 2009, 00:36
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What has the amount you contribute got to do with indexing of your pension? You have to take your contributions as a lump sum.
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Old 14th Feb 2010, 12:58
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DFRDB ABC Q and A Monday 9.30 PM 15th February 2010

Dear All,

By way of introduction, and for those who don’t know me, my name is Peter Thornton and as an Ex-Military and Commonwealth Superannuant. I am seeking your IMMEDIATE ASSISTANCE PLEASE to broadcast this message as widely as possible and to take part in the action as detailed below.

To explain, and if you are not aware; there has been a long term plight by a large number of Ex-Military and Commonwealth Retirees and Representative Bodies to seek justice in correcting the ongoing erosion of Government Retirement Pensions ( i.e. to correct the poor indexation mechanism of DFRB/DFRDB, MSBS, CSS and PSS Superannuation benefits). If you need some instant measure of how much Government Retirees have been shafted over the last 20 years or so (or will likely to be shafted into the future .... attention to all those who are yet to retire!) then the graph below will be a stark reminder and/or an instant reference to the injustice that has been perpetrated against Military and Commonwealth Superannuants ..... the erosion effectively forcing many onto welfare over time.

As a consequence, and to aid in this fight, 3 audience seats have been secured at the last minute for myself, John Coleman (Indexation Manager - SCOA) and Ian Scott (NSW State President - DFWA) in the upcoming ABC ‘Q and A’ program, this Monday evening, 15th of February, from 9:30-10:30pm. Here’s the link Q&A | ABC TV .

The purpose of obtaining seats on this specific occasion is because Lindsay Tanner (Minister for Finance) and Barnaby Joyce (Shadow Minister for Finance) will be on the panel and they are directly responsible for the carriage of this matter. As a consequence, the 3 of us will have the same pre-prepared question ready to ask the two Ministers about the ongoing injustice of current indexation arrangements and what the Government/Opposition intends to do about it.

HOWEVER, we face a major uphill battle (without your specific and collective help) because the erosion of Military/C’wlth Superannuation Pensions is not in the media spot light at the moment ..... and because we will be overshadowed by approximately 220 other people in the audience who will be eager to ask questions about other current affairs issues such as the ceiling installation deaths, the Emissions Trading Scheme etc.

BUT .... we believe that if everybody rallies as soon as possible to create a constant barrage of information flows on the Q and A website ... i.e. through their blog, submission of online questions, uploading of video questions etc ..... then maybe .... just maybe ..... it might be enough to convince Program Staff that our issue is truly a nationwide affair that affects up to 600,000 people (not including extended family) ... and is therefore worthy of a question to be asked.

ACTION PLAN:

1. We ask that upon receipt of this email that you all IMMEDIATELY ON FORWARD it to your extended networks .... and in turn .... we ask that these subsequent contacts to do the same (even if they are not affected) so we can generate a multiplier effect in generating the numbers and action needed.


2. We ask if everybody could access the Q and A website here Q&A | ABC TV and begin immediately to submit a barrage of questions in text, video, SMS and/or Twitter formats where possible. WE NEED TO TRY AND DROWN OUT ALL THE OTHER ISSUES/QUESTIONS IF WE CAN!!!!


3. We need everybody to be as active as possible on the night in question .... i.e. in blogging in your feelings before and particularly during the program ..... because .... we need you all to turn up the heat big time during the program so that Program Staff / Tony Jones will feel compelled to nominate one of us to ask the question.


DO YOU NEED MORE INFORMATION OR SOURCES OF INSPRIATION? ...... THEN PLEASE ACCESS THE FOLLOWING WEBSITES ......

SCOA: Superannuated Commonwealth Officers Association (Superannuated Commonwealth Officer’s Association)

http://www.dfwa.org.au/ (Defence Force Welfare Association ..... click on ‘WHAT’S NEW’ ..... )


I trust and hope you will all rally to this occasion .... and I apologise in advance if you have received this message in error or will receive it more than once in the next few days ... but under the circumstances ... I hope you will understand.

Kind regards

Peter Thornton
DFRDB (Ex-Army 1980-2001) & PSS Superannuant (C’wlth 2001 – 2007)
02 6296 7003
0406 1944 69
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Old 14th Feb 2010, 15:52
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Thanks for the 'heads -up' Peter,

Question re the indexation issue sent addressed to Lindsay Tanner......

Griffo, CSS superannuant.
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Old 14th Feb 2010, 16:41
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Tht Notorious Graph that Tells it all


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from this link:
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http://www.dfwa.org.au/images/other/...pdf_sep_09.pdf
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Old 15th Feb 2010, 21:13
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So the defence super is linked to the CPI?
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Old 16th Feb 2010, 01:36
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Orbiting the CPI FIX

rmcdonal So the defence super is linked to the CPI?
Of course and that's the reason why its value is falling away so rapidly. Look at the graph above. It's not rocket science.

CPI was discarded as an invalid measure of inflation mny many years ago and they eventually had to modify the calculation of pension indexation to retain the grey-power vote. However a similar calculation bestowed insufficient increments to parliamentary pensions so the bureau of statistics was asked to evolve a guaranteed methodology for providing and locking in significant adjustments to politician's pensions. They were then locked into the same rises that politicians who haven't yet retired are awarded.

Minister Tanner's weak and puny excuse for being unable to do something similar to Defence pensioners was simply that their defined benefit scheme has always orbited around that CPI concept. He says that anyone who'd opted on discharge or retirement NOT to take a lump sum of some (or maximum available) size would be "relatively" disadvantaged if the CPI basis for annual increments was to be changed. This (in DFRDB anyway) is believed to be around only 1.5% of Defence Force pensioners - (but he didn't mention that).

Overall the govt attitude has always been that the electoral power of ex Defence Force personnel and War pensioners/widows etc is minimal in the overall scheme of things - and any cost/benefit study only serves to reinforce that view. It would cost any budget dearly to depart that CPI fix, because once they'd done that, there would then be no justification for NOT implementing "fair" increases such as the politicians or OAP's get now. It's a revolving door argument, full to the brim with specious arguments, that we can never win - without significant electoral clout.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 04:33
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Join the Defence Force Welfare Assn?

Well after studying this thread and the similar one on the Military Forum, I think I'll be joining the DFWA and becoming an agitator for ADF pensions fair play.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 05:05
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I wonder what the Commonwealth and States collective liability is for unfunded politician and public service superannuation?

Is Defence personnel superannuation funded or another unfunded liability? From the graph above, I assume unfunded?

I thought the Future Fund was to fund politician, public service and Defence personnel superannuation liability?

Not sure about politicians and public servants, but retired Defence Force personnel deserve a fair go. There was a time Australia was proud of the service and support given to very deserving ex servicemen.

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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 10:19
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I'm so glad that I wasted 20 years of my life serving in the ADF .

I'll do everything that I can to stop my kids from joining.

What a waste of time.
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Old 23rd Feb 2010, 03:35
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Q&A et al

C-Change: Serving in the ADF was not a waste of you time. It was and is an honourable profession as is evidenced by the comments of posters on this forum. Unfortunately, it is only our politicians of all persuasions that don’t realise this. They are happy to bask in the reflected glory of ADF personnel when they send them off on or return from a deployment, i.e. war, but a very quick to forget them after that.

Even though the compare of Q&A admitted that they had received thousands of emails on the topic of DFRB/CSS indexation, he only allowed one question from the audience and Mr Tanner waffled on displaying that he has no real knowledge of what the issue is and the unfairness of that situation as outlined by Unctuous.
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Old 23rd Feb 2010, 11:05
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For those who haven't bothered to go to (or are unaware of)...

....the thread on the Military Forum (link is in the first post of this thread), here's a good rundown below, from there, of what a bogus operand the CPI has become:
i.e. like all politically vulnerable devices it can be cunningly manipulated to produce any outcome you wish (which is exactly what's been done for 25 years now):
The CPI measurement is the greatest rubbery measurement stunt ever pulled on an unsuspecting population. The CPI measurement methods have been "adjusted" so much by politicians, the CPI measurement is now meaningless.

Google "CPI measure flawed" and you'll get plenty of food for thought. When the CPI measurement was introduced, a set basket of "goodies", the average purchasing requirements for a family or individual, to live satisfactorily, was the measurement standard.
Along the way, the CPI basket has been adjusted, screwed with, modified, quantified and generally made so irrelevant, to any actual living costs - by political influences - it is high time it was abandoned, and an independent, highly accurate measurement method, installed in its place.

Typical of the cunning CPI rorts, is the "discretionary" method of measurement, introduced by political forces, in years gone by (both Labor and Liberal).
The "discretionary" line says that any particular item in the basket can no longer be set as a fixed % of expenditure - but that it can be adjusted downwards, if prices rise.
The argument goes, that if fuel prices rise, you can use the car less - and therefore, fuel costs can be reduced as a % of weekly expenditure, when it comes to measuring fuel costs in the CPI figures.
The same "discretionary" line applies all across the board. They reckon that if wheat goes up, you can eat less Weeties, and eat something else that uses a cheaper grain.
This goes on, all across the board, and using this "discretionary" nonsense style of measurement means that no item can ever have a set % of expenditure attached to it.

This kind of "measurement" is the same kind of rubbery figures applied to everything that politicians ever have a hand in. No longer is your money fixed to a set value. No, it "floats", and has a different value every day. Guess who benefits out of this? Of course, not the average Joe Bloggs - but the national and global banks and finance houses! - as they trade in our currency, every minute of every hour of the day! - surprise! surprise!

A rubbery CPI gives politicians wondrous powers. They live and die by the CPI figures. A bad CPI is political death - but a good CPI makes them look like heroes! - and they get voted back in!! "Why not have a CPI we can 'adjust' at will, to suit our political ends", says the pollies?? What a wondrous idea! Fuel goes up? - they can ride bicycles! Bread goes up? - they can eat cake!! Marie Antoinette would rejoice, having access to the current CPI measurements - she could prove that the people weren't starving, and were more than comfortable, with a spreadsheet full of CPI figures to flourish as irrefutable proof....
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Old 23rd Feb 2010, 21:33
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And to think that these people actually control the indixation methods of the pensions in question
Writing Speeches For The Government
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Old 24th Feb 2010, 04:07
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Price Increases under the CPI

Here;s a link to demonstrate just how arbitrary and facetious price increases made in accordance with the declared CPI really are:

link
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Old 31st May 2010, 12:45
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Senator Fielding's Petition Invite for Proper indexation of Defence Force pensions

A Fairer Go For Our Veterans Petition :: Senator Steve Fielding
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Please sign Senator Fielding's Petition for a more just indexation of Defence Force and veterans' pensions..... and email the link to your mates.
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Old 3rd Jun 2010, 11:00
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Australia Raises Minimum Wage

But ADF pensioners, DFRB, MSBS and DFRDB recipients and disability veterans will just continue their rearward march... at a now increased pace.


03 june 2010

By RACHEL PANNETT

CANBERRA—In a victory for unions, Australia's new independent workplace-relations tribunal said Thursday it will raise the country's minimum wage by 4.8% to 569.90 Australian dollars (about US$485) in early July.
The decision raises the wage rate paid to the country's lowest paid workers to A$15 an hour. It falls just A$1 short of calls by organized labor for a pay rise of A$27 a week.
But it has angered business groups that had lobbied for a more measured rise as small businesses in particular shake off the effects of the recent global financial crisis.
"This decision has nailed the coffin in on small business and thousands of jobs for working Australians," said Scott Driscoll, national president of the United Retail Federation lobby.
It also alerts the Reserve Bank of Australia to potential wage pressures, especially as economists expect the engines of the A$1.2 trillion economy to fire-up fully later in 2010 as a mining boom sparks recovery. The central bank monitors wage growth as a bellwether for the broader inflation outlook.
Interest rates have been raised six times since October, taking the cash rate target to 4.5%, amid rising concerns about inflation. Unemployment in April was 5.4%, close to what Treasury considers full employment. Consumer price index inflation was running at 2.9% in the first quarter compared with a year ago—already at the top of the central bank's 2%-to-3% target band.
The proportion of Australian workers on the minimum wage is relatively small—1.4 million people, or a little over 10% of the working population. But business groups, especially retailers, worry the ruling could set a precedent, driving up wage demands across the broader economy.
Last year, the minimum wage rate was held steady in recognition of uncertain times for the economy.
"While a case existed for a modest increase, this decision goes well beyond what was responsible or justified," said Greg Evans, director of economics and industry policy at business lobby the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, adding that many small businesses "will be left reeling".
But Geoffrey Giudice, president of the Fair Work Australia tribunal, said the increase was justified because real prices have risen in the economy while minimum wages haven't.
"There is a strong case for a rise in minimum wages to provide a fair and relevant safety net to protect the relevant living standards of [low-wage] employees," he said.
Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard said the decision was "economically responsible and fair."
The Australian economy grew at a much slower pace in the first quarter than at the end of last year as the withdrawal of economic stimulus, surprising weakness in business investment and sluggish growth in export volumes took some of the steam out of activity, according to official gross domestic product data released Wednesday.
But economists say the moderation will be short-lived as companies continue to plan significant investment, especially in the mining sector, while a substantial upswing in commodity prices is already washing through the economy.
—Alex Wilson in Melbourne and James Glynn in Sydney contributed to this article.
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 15:07
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The Cause: as now Influenced by the Election......

Senator Steve Fielding was the only MP fighting the good fight for fair indexation of service pensions, however he has less than a

snowball's chance in hell of being re-elected.
But the Coalition Promise to do something (if elected) is below.

############################################################ #####

From: Hardie, Robert (L. Markus, MP)
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:16 AM
Subject: Coalition Joint Release - Military Superannuation-


Please find attached a Joint Media Release from the Coalition outlining our plan to introduce new indexation arrangements for DFRDB superannuants.


JOINT PRESS RELEASE

THE HON. TONY ABBOTT MHR, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION,

SENATOR THE HON. DAVID JOHNSTON, SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE,

THE HON. BOB BALDWIN MHR, SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE, SCIENCE AND PERSONNEL AND ASSISTING SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE,

LOUISE MARKUS MHR, SHADOW MINISTER FOR VETERANS? AFFAIRS AND

STUART ROBERT MHR, SHADOW PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY FOR DEFENCE


INCREASED SUPPORT FOR AUSTRALIA?S VETERANS AND EX-SERVICE PERSONNEL



A Coalition Government will introduce new indexation arrangements for Defence Force Retirement and Death Benefits Scheme (DFRDB) members as part of its commitment to supporting Australia?s veterans and ex-service personnel.


Under a Coalition government, from 1 July 2011 those DFRDB members aged 55 years or older will have their military superannuation

pensions indexed to the greater of the Consumer Price Index (CPI), Male Total Average Weekly Earnings (MTAWE) or the Pensioner and Beneficiary Living Cost Index (PBLCI).


These changes are being made as part of the Coalition?s recognition of the unique nature of military service and our commitment to introducing a fair, equitable and fiscally responsible military superannuation system.


Widows of DFRDB superannuants will also benefit from the announced changes.


Labor broke its election promise to "fix" the issue of military superannuation indexation and this has yet another example that the Labor Government is all talk and no action.


This is a fully costed and fully funded policy. Savings already identified by the Coalition will be used to offset the $98 million cost over the forward estimates. A further $100 million will be invested into the Future Fund as a first step towards funding the new arrangements beyond the forward estimates.


This change brings into line the indexation of DFRDB superannuation with the aged pension. Currently DFRDB superannuation is indexed according to the CPI.


If the indexation rate had increased in line with the aged pension, military superannuants would have received an extra $28.40 per fortnight to their pension (if they received the full pension rate) in March this year.


Unlike Labor, the Coalition has consulted widely and listened carefully to the views put forward by veterans, ex-service people, ex-service organisations and current ADF personnel.


The Coalition acknowledges the February 2010 submission from Returned Services League (RSL) National President, Rear Admiral Ken Doolan

AO RAN (Rtd) on military superannuation together with the long-standing efforts of the Defence Force Welfare Association (DFWA) and in particular, of Colonel David Jamison (Rtd), National President of the DFWA.


We are committed to real action to support our veterans, and will ensure that those who have served their nation are properly looked after in their retirement. After all, military service is unique and unique solutions are required to recognise that service.


Above all else, Australia?s service personnel, past and present, after giving so much to their nation, deserve to live out their lives in the knowledge that they have financial security.


27 JUNE 2010



<<10-06-27 Joint Press Release with Johnston, Markus, Baldwin, Robert.pdf>>
____________________________________________________________ __________________________________________
deleted article from "Adelaide Now":

#
Veterans on attack over pension dud

Even Labor MPs, including two frontbenchers, have attacked the Government decision to breach…
an election commitment. But the Government is resisting calls to increase the pension for more than 300…

28 Sep 2009 | Adelaide Now > Adelaide Now | article | Find related
____________________________________________________________ ______________________________
Re: ADF News.......Part Two
« Reply #35 on: Sunday,May 17, 2009 »
In reply to the report by Air Chief Marshal Huston .
I disagree with what he had to say with the exception of the change of benefits over the last four years, which I am not familiar with.

It can not be disputed that since the early 1960's the compensation & benefits available to defence force personnel is to put it mildly

far from satisfactory, & benefits to ex service personnel is even worse & at this time there is nothing on the horizon to prove that this

is going to improve any time in the future. At this stage I would say that there are enquiries into benefits by various authorities

but that in no way confirms that service & ex service compensation or superannuation benefits are going to finally be brought in to line

with adequate renumeration benefits for military personnel, Plenty of promises but realistically speaking, no real benefits.
My suggestion to Service Personnel going in to active areas is to double load with insurance at the very least . Neil Macdonald
____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

other relevant articles:

DFRDB and MSBS Information


Veterans' pensions under fire | The Australian


Rann pleads for military pensions to be CPI-linked | The Australian
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Old 29th Jul 2010, 09:52
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See details of the DFWA campaign for Fair Indexation

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at this link

It seems to be a participatory campaign.
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