best twin for training?
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Torque, there has been a lot very good insight into this, to which I am very appreciative. Perhaps I hadnt looked into this as much as I thought, but I was under the impression you would need an IR on either a single or twin to get an Instructor rating? I was looking at doing that also as I would make finding employment easier near a major center, which is something I have to consider with my partner finishing a Law degree before I finish this.
I have noticed that some schools around state that you can get your CPL GST free if you do the basic syllabus, but didnt mention that it was the same if you did something more advanced (CIR-FIR). I didnt realise you could write off the further training afterwards, I guess under further educatoin expenses (or what ever its called). Has anyone done this recently and could share how much tax they saved on the MECIR? Using Johnston Aviations $14,000 as a guide. Maybe I should join a Tax forum to get these answers......
But, as a scenario, wouldnt a operator with singles and twins be more likely to hire someone, (even with low hours) if they had the MECIR over a guy with the same hours without it? Ofcourse, but there are just to many maybes and what ifs out there. Just getting my head around a new way of thinking after makeing what I thought was an informed decision.
Thanks everyone for your input, goes to prove there is a wealth of knowledge on here!!!
I have noticed that some schools around state that you can get your CPL GST free if you do the basic syllabus, but didnt mention that it was the same if you did something more advanced (CIR-FIR). I didnt realise you could write off the further training afterwards, I guess under further educatoin expenses (or what ever its called). Has anyone done this recently and could share how much tax they saved on the MECIR? Using Johnston Aviations $14,000 as a guide. Maybe I should join a Tax forum to get these answers......
But, as a scenario, wouldnt a operator with singles and twins be more likely to hire someone, (even with low hours) if they had the MECIR over a guy with the same hours without it? Ofcourse, but there are just to many maybes and what ifs out there. Just getting my head around a new way of thinking after makeing what I thought was an informed decision.
Thanks everyone for your input, goes to prove there is a wealth of knowledge on here!!!
Ezz,
If you sign up for an approved 150hr integrated CPL course, you don't pay GST. Not sure about the tax ramafications beyond CPL, torque seems to be on to it though.
You do not need an instrument rating to get an instructor rating, the prerequisite is CPL + NVFR as a minimum. I chose to do an instrument rating over NVFR as this allows you to exercise the priveliges of a NVFR as long as the rating is current.
You really just need to decide which path you want to go down though - charter or instructing. If you decide to go down the instructor route though, make sure it is something you actually want to do and not something you are forcing yourself to do. Nothing worse than an instructor who doesn't give a damn
If you sign up for an approved 150hr integrated CPL course, you don't pay GST. Not sure about the tax ramafications beyond CPL, torque seems to be on to it though.
You do not need an instrument rating to get an instructor rating, the prerequisite is CPL + NVFR as a minimum. I chose to do an instrument rating over NVFR as this allows you to exercise the priveliges of a NVFR as long as the rating is current.
You really just need to decide which path you want to go down though - charter or instructing. If you decide to go down the instructor route though, make sure it is something you actually want to do and not something you are forcing yourself to do. Nothing worse than an instructor who doesn't give a damn
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Mav, totally agree regarding instructors giving a dam! Teaching/instructing is something I enjoy and have been doing in my last profession since I was 19. I can imagine there is a lot of guys out there just for the time building and couldnt careless, which hurts the more people than they may think. I do get great enjoyment watching someone use or suceed with something I have had a part in teaching them how to do, which is why I considered it.
How often do you have to have a check ride to keep the IR current? From memory I think its 3 months? Is it just a matter of paying for rental cost or is there a check fee involved as well?
How often do you have to have a check ride to keep the IR current? From memory I think its 3 months? Is it just a matter of paying for rental cost or is there a check fee involved as well?
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On.. and .. On.. and .. On.. 
You don't fly aircraft only by committee decision,, someone has to be a captain and make a final decision. Can you do that?
If you intend to be an instructor, or instrument rated, read the regulations and requirements yourself.. You haven't got time to text someone, or phone a friend, when you get to the DA on a marginal approach, or the student is flaring and holding off too high and doing nothing about it.. 3 month renewals? are you talking about airline proficiency sim checks, or what?
Oh .., I've hurt your precious feelings again..
Just as you insulted mine with your proposal, if required, to sell coke..
I have kids thanks very much.. they don't fly yet.. I'll show them and encourage them when they decide they are ready, one did a degree in Policing and Enforcement..but they display more brains, and can work things out better for themselves, than you appear able to..
F...wit
The Gods spare us all
You don't fly aircraft only by committee decision,, someone has to be a captain and make a final decision. Can you do that?
If you intend to be an instructor, or instrument rated, read the regulations and requirements yourself.. You haven't got time to text someone, or phone a friend, when you get to the DA on a marginal approach, or the student is flaring and holding off too high and doing nothing about it.. 3 month renewals? are you talking about airline proficiency sim checks, or what?
Oh .., I've hurt your precious feelings again..
Just as you insulted mine with your proposal, if required, to sell coke..
I have kids thanks very much.. they don't fly yet.. I'll show them and encourage them when they decide they are ready, one did a degree in Policing and Enforcement..but they display more brains, and can work things out better for themselves, than you appear able to..
F...wit
The Gods spare us all
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J3...mate, I get legless often enough to know what you mean there...the internet makes my spaztasticness more available and accessible to the world at large! 
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Frigatebird,
Thank you again for your constructive contribution to what I thought was a reasonable discussion. I came on this forum to talk to people who could help me gain direction and insight, and instead, even from my first post, you've chosen to be sarcastic and unhelpful. I ask about a rating and you accused me of taking mummy and daddy's money and contributing to a global financial crisis. And even now, you offer no useful comment about the content of this thread - instead, you dwell literally on things that were never and most obviously not intended to be taken that way. I am not a coke dealer and will never be. I was making the point that it was not your business or place to criticise how I would get into a flight school. I am glad to hear that your kids have achieved so much, but please do not make the arrogant assumption that my mental capacities are deplorable. Asking questions is not a crime, I hope should your kids have a few of their own you respond in a much better way. I don't know everything mate, but I was also raised never to despise meager beginnings. If all you want to do is come on here and put me down, save us both the time and don't. You haven't hurt my feelings.
Thank you again for your constructive contribution to what I thought was a reasonable discussion. I came on this forum to talk to people who could help me gain direction and insight, and instead, even from my first post, you've chosen to be sarcastic and unhelpful. I ask about a rating and you accused me of taking mummy and daddy's money and contributing to a global financial crisis. And even now, you offer no useful comment about the content of this thread - instead, you dwell literally on things that were never and most obviously not intended to be taken that way. I am not a coke dealer and will never be. I was making the point that it was not your business or place to criticise how I would get into a flight school. I am glad to hear that your kids have achieved so much, but please do not make the arrogant assumption that my mental capacities are deplorable. Asking questions is not a crime, I hope should your kids have a few of their own you respond in a much better way. I don't know everything mate, but I was also raised never to despise meager beginnings. If all you want to do is come on here and put me down, save us both the time and don't. You haven't hurt my feelings.
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Good.
I never accused you of anything, you just took it that way. All I did was ask a question myself. And I gave you information like the others.
But I did get sick of you just going on and on, and wanting to be spoon fed information that you will have to learn up on from the regulations if you want to be a working pilot. Frankly I'm going to bed, I'm tired of people like yourself..
I never accused you of anything, you just took it that way. All I did was ask a question myself. And I gave you information like the others.
But I did get sick of you just going on and on, and wanting to be spoon fed information that you will have to learn up on from the regulations if you want to be a working pilot. Frankly I'm going to bed, I'm tired of people like yourself..
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Just before anyones decides to correct me on my previous post, I saw a Partenavia in Darwin yesterday on my way through . Looked like it was parked out the front of CSG. Maybe they are starting to creep into the top end as well.
Sorry for the thread drift. Still reckon a baron is the best bet for the MECIR if you want an endo that is useful for work though.
Sorry for the thread drift. Still reckon a baron is the best bet for the MECIR if you want an endo that is useful for work though.
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Torsion, I was unaware if the one at Alligator in Kunna's. I've only been there on a handful of occasions so it may have been out flying.
I was talking about 1 or 2 being used for scenic flights around the rock.
I was talking about 1 or 2 being used for scenic flights around the rock.
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Just before anyones decides to correct me on my previous post, I saw a Partenavia in Darwin yesterday on my way through . Looked like it was parked out the front of CSG. Maybe they are starting to creep into the top end as well.
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Charter Twins
EZZ35
If your eventual aim is to fly for a major airline, then staying in a major centre probably won’t get you very far. As others have suggested, make a clear decision of what your eventual aim will be, because if its the majors you’re after, going “bush” for an extended period of your life is just about essential. Our capital cities are full of CPL holders who were going to be airline pilots. And I take my hat off to those who choose to be a career instructor; its an honourable vocation and we need more of them in Australia for the benefit of our future industry. The instructors who get into airlines have to leave the centres and go into charter eventually if they want to change their direction, and getting into charter is a faster way than instructing.
I would agree with those who say put off the twin for a more appropriate time, as the heady days of quick progression seem to be well over, and aviation seems to have settled back to a more normal pace. Return of the 90’s , a situation where you need quite a bit of single charter aeroplane experience (700 – 1000 hrs) and a good employment record before anyone will chance you with their charter twin, especially in IFR conditions even if you’ve got the rating. Remember it means cash flow for them and costs money to insure and fix if something happens. Any downtime costs the company losts charters and lots of money. To get the first single charter job you need to spend some months getting known and breaking the ice with an employer (while you’re living there). The only fast track out of it is possibly a cadetship such as Qantaslink, Rex or similar.
A twin Comanche would be rarely if ever used in charter, Dubbo’s Airlink was the only operator I’d ever heard of, and flying school time in a twin would not really count for much, plus you would have to wait your turn in the single engine queue anyway before your twin spot comes up.
Barons and Cessna 310 were usually the first charter twin job, which would then lead onto Navajos / chieftains /Cessna 402 / 404 when you had proved you could handle the former pair, but that is probably some years off for you. Unless you’re born with the luck of the Irish, a chance to go straight onto a twin without doing a couple of years of paid employment flying a “high powered” charter single will never come.
My suggestion would be that if you have the funds, get a Cessna 210 endorsement and finish off your CPL on that if you can arrange it, with an Airvan being the next best thing, and perhaps a single engine instrument rating to give you an “out” if you get trapped by weather while you’re doing your “single engine VFR apprenticeship”. That way you’ve got some appropriate entry level experience that you have a chance to market to an employer. Though, if things are still tight in GA, it may be that cattle station mustering work and parachute dropping are the first steps on the rung, in which case a Cessna 182 endorsement is good to have in your kit. Then you can head North for some years, and begin working your way up the mountain until such time as an opportunity might allow you to return home within aviation.
When you know what twins your company operates, you’ll know what twin endorsement to get on your first or second stint of annual leave back in your home town, so you’re ready to go. That’s the time when you can also consider upgrading your single IFR rating to a twin for the time when its eventually needed.
In my opinion, some time on the “C-210 workhorse” with a 182 endorsement alongside it, is probably the best way to go to increase your employment prospects in the real world, if GA is back to the way it was when I scored my first job. But probably also important to realise is that your personality, perceived company "fit" and persistence will play an equal role in any employer's mind.
Hope the above is useful. Good Luck.
If your eventual aim is to fly for a major airline, then staying in a major centre probably won’t get you very far. As others have suggested, make a clear decision of what your eventual aim will be, because if its the majors you’re after, going “bush” for an extended period of your life is just about essential. Our capital cities are full of CPL holders who were going to be airline pilots. And I take my hat off to those who choose to be a career instructor; its an honourable vocation and we need more of them in Australia for the benefit of our future industry. The instructors who get into airlines have to leave the centres and go into charter eventually if they want to change their direction, and getting into charter is a faster way than instructing.
I would agree with those who say put off the twin for a more appropriate time, as the heady days of quick progression seem to be well over, and aviation seems to have settled back to a more normal pace. Return of the 90’s , a situation where you need quite a bit of single charter aeroplane experience (700 – 1000 hrs) and a good employment record before anyone will chance you with their charter twin, especially in IFR conditions even if you’ve got the rating. Remember it means cash flow for them and costs money to insure and fix if something happens. Any downtime costs the company losts charters and lots of money. To get the first single charter job you need to spend some months getting known and breaking the ice with an employer (while you’re living there). The only fast track out of it is possibly a cadetship such as Qantaslink, Rex or similar.
A twin Comanche would be rarely if ever used in charter, Dubbo’s Airlink was the only operator I’d ever heard of, and flying school time in a twin would not really count for much, plus you would have to wait your turn in the single engine queue anyway before your twin spot comes up.
Barons and Cessna 310 were usually the first charter twin job, which would then lead onto Navajos / chieftains /Cessna 402 / 404 when you had proved you could handle the former pair, but that is probably some years off for you. Unless you’re born with the luck of the Irish, a chance to go straight onto a twin without doing a couple of years of paid employment flying a “high powered” charter single will never come.
My suggestion would be that if you have the funds, get a Cessna 210 endorsement and finish off your CPL on that if you can arrange it, with an Airvan being the next best thing, and perhaps a single engine instrument rating to give you an “out” if you get trapped by weather while you’re doing your “single engine VFR apprenticeship”. That way you’ve got some appropriate entry level experience that you have a chance to market to an employer. Though, if things are still tight in GA, it may be that cattle station mustering work and parachute dropping are the first steps on the rung, in which case a Cessna 182 endorsement is good to have in your kit. Then you can head North for some years, and begin working your way up the mountain until such time as an opportunity might allow you to return home within aviation.
When you know what twins your company operates, you’ll know what twin endorsement to get on your first or second stint of annual leave back in your home town, so you’re ready to go. That’s the time when you can also consider upgrading your single IFR rating to a twin for the time when its eventually needed.
In my opinion, some time on the “C-210 workhorse” with a 182 endorsement alongside it, is probably the best way to go to increase your employment prospects in the real world, if GA is back to the way it was when I scored my first job. But probably also important to realise is that your personality, perceived company "fit" and persistence will play an equal role in any employer's mind.
Hope the above is useful. Good Luck.
Many year's ago you did have to get a C210 endorsement before they bought in the group endorsement's.
A CP that I worked for showed me his licence with all the single engine endorsements and ranged from C150, C170, C175, C172, C182, C205, C206, C207, C210, Victa, PA-18, PA-28/140, PA-24, Auster, Chipmunk and Tiger Moth.
Don't mention it to loudly otherwise CASA will reintroduce as a stealth way to raise revenue!!!!
A CP that I worked for showed me his licence with all the single engine endorsements and ranged from C150, C170, C175, C172, C182, C205, C206, C207, C210, Victa, PA-18, PA-28/140, PA-24, Auster, Chipmunk and Tiger Moth.
Don't mention it to loudly otherwise CASA will reintroduce as a stealth way to raise revenue!!!!
nee naw nee naw nee naw
*door slams*
allo allo allo... wot 'ave we 'ere then? Detective Senior Sergeant Bargearse from the spelling police... we ave 'ad report of Inappropriate of apostrophes in this vicinity. 
PLURALS DO NOT NEED BLOODY APOSTROPHES!
YOU DO NOT NEED TO PUT A F$%^ING APOSTROPHE IN FRONT OF EVERY F$%^ING 'S'.
FFS
allo allo allo... wot 'ave we 'ere then? Detective Senior Sergeant Bargearse from the spelling police... we ave 'ad report of Inappropriate of apostrophes in this vicinity.
PLURALS DO NOT NEED BLOODY APOSTROPHES!
YOU DO NOT NEED TO PUT A F$%^ING APOSTROPHE IN FRONT OF EVERY F$%^ING 'S'.
FFS
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Ezz,
If you get your MECIR, keeping it 'current' is worthless and expensive. All you are doing is paying for twin hours. Realistically, do your renewal every year (mine used to cost 1 hour of aircraft and 1 one hour of Sim + ATO fee) and wait for that twin job. The operator will no doubt do some sort of ICUS (remember you need 10hours on type to operate IFR CHTR) so all of your currency will be fixed up then.
As far as which aircraft to do your MECIR on...I asked the same question 13 years ago. I chose the C310 because I was convinced that the C310 was the endorsement of choice. Result....never flew one again. First twin job was on a Baron.
As to whether you should get it now or later my opinion is this. If you are aiming for a career as a professional pilot and have aspirations for bigger and better things than a 210/206, get EVERYTHING done ASAP (ATPLs, MECIR etc). You never know what opportunity is around the corner. I have seen many guys over the years miss the opportunity to take a twin job offered to them because they didnt have their MECIR. Likewise, many have missed the boat with airlines (from regionals to majors) and turbine operators because the ATPLs were not done. My point is, whether you have 500 hours or 5000 hrs, you never know what opportunity is around the corner.
And finally, having the MECIR gave me a little extra flying in a higher performance aircraft which boosted the confidence and made the transition from the mighty PA28R to the C210 a piece of p*ss.
If you get your MECIR, keeping it 'current' is worthless and expensive. All you are doing is paying for twin hours. Realistically, do your renewal every year (mine used to cost 1 hour of aircraft and 1 one hour of Sim + ATO fee) and wait for that twin job. The operator will no doubt do some sort of ICUS (remember you need 10hours on type to operate IFR CHTR) so all of your currency will be fixed up then.
As far as which aircraft to do your MECIR on...I asked the same question 13 years ago. I chose the C310 because I was convinced that the C310 was the endorsement of choice. Result....never flew one again. First twin job was on a Baron.
As to whether you should get it now or later my opinion is this. If you are aiming for a career as a professional pilot and have aspirations for bigger and better things than a 210/206, get EVERYTHING done ASAP (ATPLs, MECIR etc). You never know what opportunity is around the corner. I have seen many guys over the years miss the opportunity to take a twin job offered to them because they didnt have their MECIR. Likewise, many have missed the boat with airlines (from regionals to majors) and turbine operators because the ATPLs were not done. My point is, whether you have 500 hours or 5000 hrs, you never know what opportunity is around the corner.
And finally, having the MECIR gave me a little extra flying in a higher performance aircraft which boosted the confidence and made the transition from the mighty PA28R to the C210 a piece of p*ss.
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besides the C310 and the B55/58 I would recommend the seminole. I really enjoyed the Piper Semiole seems to be nicer to fly then the duchess and twin comanchee especially the 2000 model. Just a personal preference.
Twin Catastrophe is a good aircraft for training on - cheap to buy, easy on the gas - but it is of limited use in the Charter world. That said, I know of at least one multi-millionaire who charters Basair/HVA's TinCans on a weekly basis.
...the other drawback with their Twin Commanches is the fact they need two pilots for IFR CHTR (no autopilot)... so not much useful load left, especially now that Edward is putting on the Kgs...
...the other drawback with their Twin Commanches is the fact they need two pilots for IFR CHTR (no autopilot)... so not much useful load left, especially now that Edward is putting on the Kgs...
