Owning a plane in NZ
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27/09 "That Piper has slightly bigger wheels than when I saw it last. By the way it's not a Super Cub."
Must have been sometime ago. Now sporting a bigger and better donk too. Should climb like a home sick angel now.
Knox.
Must have been sometime ago. Now sporting a bigger and better donk too. Should climb like a home sick angel now.
Knox.
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conflict alert, thanks for your reply the costs are not to bad, I would probably do 200hrs a year and maybe rent it out to trusted friends who have plenty of tail wheel time.
I just want the freedom, to head off and know that no bloody flying school wants there plane back by a certain time and that it is in the condition that I left it in etc etc.
I just want the freedom, to head off and know that no bloody flying school wants there plane back by a certain time and that it is in the condition that I left it in etc etc.
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I guess it might be time for me to help a bit here...
I want the prices that Conflict Alert said.... I wish
Insurance... $4300
Hangerage... $4000
LANDING FEES for 200hrs $3400
eek:
Interest... say $5600
Then there are the running costs ...
but who cares you have lost interest by now right...
Best to fly someone else’s... www.citabria.co.nz
But good luck to you... the best thing, are all the people that you get to meet, taildragger pilots are a close group of people and we all know the secret of life....
I want the prices that Conflict Alert said.... I wish
Insurance... $4300
Hangerage... $4000
LANDING FEES for 200hrs $3400
eek:Interest... say $5600
Then there are the running costs ...
but who cares you have lost interest by now right...
Best to fly someone else’s... www.citabria.co.nz
But good luck to you... the best thing, are all the people that you get to meet, taildragger pilots are a close group of people and we all know the secret of life....
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Conflict Alert I reckon you'll need to increase those costs a little (double in some cases)
Insurance - Normally percentage of hull value, Super Cub is xpensive, I don't think you will get much change from 90 - 100K for a good one, and around 5% = $5000/100 = $50hr Insurance
Fuel & Oil- Super Cub has O320 150-160HP around 35/36 Litres Hour, with fine pitch prop on it to get in and out of tight places, the engine will be revving higher than normal with this combination, lower TAS in cruise, longer time to get to and from said tight places = higher than normal fuel flow overall. Say 40 LHR x 100 = 4000L x $2L = $8000 year /100 = $80hr fuel.
Oil @ 1L/5hrs = 20yr @ $10L = $200/100 = $2hr (actual oil cost will probably be more depending on engine condition)
Maintenance - Would have to be at least $1800 -2000 for 100 Hourly @ one per year, plus ARA, would say about the same = $4000/100 = $40hr. Contribution for new engine and prop, recover, tyres, unscheduled R&M would depend engine life, fabric condition etc. 40K for new engine and prop alone - 40000/15 (15 years @ 100hrs year) = $2670 year/ 100 = $26.7hr say $30hr
Basic operating cost therefore is $202hr @ 100hrs year without hangarage, finance, increase insurance for low time pilots, airways and landing fees. Plus I would put in 20-30% overall for the 'wife and kids' factor!
All this in NZD by the way.
Would love to have me own machine and hence have crunched a few numbers and, yep, in 'aint cheap!
Insurance - Normally percentage of hull value, Super Cub is xpensive, I don't think you will get much change from 90 - 100K for a good one, and around 5% = $5000/100 = $50hr Insurance
Fuel & Oil- Super Cub has O320 150-160HP around 35/36 Litres Hour, with fine pitch prop on it to get in and out of tight places, the engine will be revving higher than normal with this combination, lower TAS in cruise, longer time to get to and from said tight places = higher than normal fuel flow overall. Say 40 LHR x 100 = 4000L x $2L = $8000 year /100 = $80hr fuel.
Oil @ 1L/5hrs = 20yr @ $10L = $200/100 = $2hr (actual oil cost will probably be more depending on engine condition)
Maintenance - Would have to be at least $1800 -2000 for 100 Hourly @ one per year, plus ARA, would say about the same = $4000/100 = $40hr. Contribution for new engine and prop, recover, tyres, unscheduled R&M would depend engine life, fabric condition etc. 40K for new engine and prop alone - 40000/15 (15 years @ 100hrs year) = $2670 year/ 100 = $26.7hr say $30hr
Basic operating cost therefore is $202hr @ 100hrs year without hangarage, finance, increase insurance for low time pilots, airways and landing fees. Plus I would put in 20-30% overall for the 'wife and kids' factor!
All this in NZD by the way.
Would love to have me own machine and hence have crunched a few numbers and, yep, in 'aint cheap!
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VH - VIN....maybe I'm guessing you may have picked up on who I am!!
Shredder and Wombat,
Perhapes there should be two topics - "Owning an aircraft in Auckland" and "Owning an aircraft in the rest of NZ"
My experience of hangerage (particularly in the South Island) is that most ask for around $50 a week - hence my figure of 2500
Insurance - if your paying 5% of hull value you need to shop around Shredder!! I have owned various types over the past 10 years and NEVER paid more than 2.5% with a million liability. My original figure of 1800 may have been on the lighter side but not by much - even for 100k insurance will be 2500 plus GST obviously reducing if you insure for lesser a value. Having said that my insurance has always been for me only as the pilot.
Fuel - again, Shredder, if your using 40lts / hr for a 150 motor might I suggest you are absolutely flogging it!! I did say in my original post (depending on the engine) as not all Super cubs come with a 150 or 180 motor! 20lts that I wrote was a typo and should have been 30 and using the $1.50/ltr gave me the value of 45bucks per hours as stated. I did say including oil as this is negligable really at the end of the day unless your motor is stuffed. I operated an aircraft not too dissimiliar to the one pictured previously before it grew large wheels!!!, with a 150 motor and averaged, appropriately leaned, 26 to 28 ltrs per flying hour at 2400. By the way, where the hell do you get your fuel from at 2 bucks a litre!!!!!!!!
Landing fees - I didn't include those as its up to the individual as to whether they wish to operate at airfields where these will be incurred. Wombat - those fees are horrific, you must have done a lot of short flights.
Maint...I did make the comment after my figure of $1500 for an annual and ARA (cheeeep) implying that the figure was on the cheaper side of things. Naturally the more flying you do per year the more its going to visit the maint hangar (50 / 100hrs) the cost is going to go up (per year). I guess once again you have to shop around and check out the hourly rates of engineers.
Bla Bla
One thing I did not include as Shredder pointed out is the engine replacement cost and this will have to be calculated if using the calander time as a cost per year or if using hours a cost per hour. Under private ops of course you can still run on condition beyond calander or TBO with a certain criteria. Havn't mentioned the prop replacement or the avionics - and the list goes on.
The raw operating cost is still cheap in my view but yes it does start getting up there when you add everything on, you can't calculate unforseen maint and quite frankly, as an aircraft owner, if you added every little thing plus some more for mum dad and the kids then as wombat says, you would very rapidly lose interest in owning an aircraft. As I originally stated in my first post - if you need to rely on other people flying your aircraft to help pay for itself - then you probably shouldn't buy it. To me its just great to be able to go somewhere anytime I want without booking or negotiating with 10 other people and I just accept that the cost some years might not be much and other times alot. I look at the aircraft the same as a car at the end of the day, if I'm driving from A to B I know that it will cost me about x amount of dollars in fuel and that's what I work on. I just accept that regardless of how many A to B trips I do, I still have to get my 10000km checks done, registration, insurance, carwashes (I'm far too lazy) and any unforseen work. I certainly don't break everything down to work out a cost per KM otherwise I would never drive anywhere!! This is the same principle I work on with my aircraft, but each to their own.
cheers
I'm guessing you may have picked up on who I am!!Shredder and Wombat,
Perhapes there should be two topics - "Owning an aircraft in Auckland" and "Owning an aircraft in the rest of NZ"
My experience of hangerage (particularly in the South Island) is that most ask for around $50 a week - hence my figure of 2500
Insurance - if your paying 5% of hull value you need to shop around Shredder!! I have owned various types over the past 10 years and NEVER paid more than 2.5% with a million liability. My original figure of 1800 may have been on the lighter side but not by much - even for 100k insurance will be 2500 plus GST obviously reducing if you insure for lesser a value. Having said that my insurance has always been for me only as the pilot.
Fuel - again, Shredder, if your using 40lts / hr for a 150 motor might I suggest you are absolutely flogging it!! I did say in my original post (depending on the engine) as not all Super cubs come with a 150 or 180 motor! 20lts that I wrote was a typo and should have been 30 and using the $1.50/ltr gave me the value of 45bucks per hours as stated. I did say including oil as this is negligable really at the end of the day unless your motor is stuffed. I operated an aircraft not too dissimiliar to the one pictured previously before it grew large wheels!!!, with a 150 motor and averaged, appropriately leaned, 26 to 28 ltrs per flying hour at 2400. By the way, where the hell do you get your fuel from at 2 bucks a litre!!!!!!!!
Landing fees - I didn't include those as its up to the individual as to whether they wish to operate at airfields where these will be incurred. Wombat - those fees are horrific, you must have done a lot of short flights.
Maint...I did make the comment after my figure of $1500 for an annual and ARA (cheeeep) implying that the figure was on the cheaper side of things. Naturally the more flying you do per year the more its going to visit the maint hangar (50 / 100hrs) the cost is going to go up (per year). I guess once again you have to shop around and check out the hourly rates of engineers.
Bla Bla
One thing I did not include as Shredder pointed out is the engine replacement cost and this will have to be calculated if using the calander time as a cost per year or if using hours a cost per hour. Under private ops of course you can still run on condition beyond calander or TBO with a certain criteria. Havn't mentioned the prop replacement or the avionics - and the list goes on.
The raw operating cost is still cheap in my view but yes it does start getting up there when you add everything on, you can't calculate unforseen maint and quite frankly, as an aircraft owner, if you added every little thing plus some more for mum dad and the kids then as wombat says, you would very rapidly lose interest in owning an aircraft. As I originally stated in my first post - if you need to rely on other people flying your aircraft to help pay for itself - then you probably shouldn't buy it. To me its just great to be able to go somewhere anytime I want without booking or negotiating with 10 other people and I just accept that the cost some years might not be much and other times alot. I look at the aircraft the same as a car at the end of the day, if I'm driving from A to B I know that it will cost me about x amount of dollars in fuel and that's what I work on. I just accept that regardless of how many A to B trips I do, I still have to get my 10000km checks done, registration, insurance, carwashes (I'm far too lazy) and any unforseen work. I certainly don't break everything down to work out a cost per KM otherwise I would never drive anywhere!! This is the same principle I work on with my aircraft, but each to their own.
cheers
Last edited by conflict alert; 29th Sep 2009 at 02:11.
