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Qantas Group Unity

Old 13th Aug 2009, 18:20
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ozmate
Posts: 376
Also from AIPA "During the Long Haul EBA negotiations an undertaking was given to accept the current Jetconnect operation"
WTF?
What's THAT got to do with Long Haul? Seems like a S/H concession to me.
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Old 13th Aug 2009, 22:09
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Dragun,

I've heard the same thing from many QLink mates of mine re: LoL. Seems to me you guys are stuck between a rock and a hard place, because something like LoL is not a reason on which to choose your union representation.

As you probably know, AIPA doesn't need to provide such a policy because the QF EBAs have their own LoL provisions provided by the company.

Have you spoken to Capt G.E. (the QLink rep on the AIPA CoM) about what could be done to get some sort of policy in place with AIPA?
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Old 14th Aug 2009, 03:21
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Syd, NSW
Posts: 353
Blown' Wrote
One question though, how is the (sic)rumuneration package for the AIPA President calculated?If there is no financial 'pain" like the rest of us are enduring then this gesture is purely stage managed theatrics.
I don't know the answer to that one Blown. Would you care to enlightlen us all?
Or are you just $hit stirring again?

From meeting Barry J I choose to see his gesture as a genuine acknowledgment that we are all in this together.
CaptCloudbuster is online now  
Old 14th Aug 2009, 04:08
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 70
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Not shit stirring capt Cloudduster,
Just asking a simple question really, a question a lot of other AIPA members are starting to ponder.After all didn't you lot campaign on a platform of honesty, transparency and communication? So come on, how about a bit of that honesty and transparency could you communicate to us mere mortals how is the Presidents remuneration package calculated?
If there is already a min guaranteed component in that package with AIPA making up the difference, how is this contractual obligation going to be influenced by Barry's magnanimous offer?
Simple Question really , after all the devil is in the detail is it not?
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Old 14th Aug 2009, 07:38
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: HKG
Posts: 41
HKGís Asia Pacific Daily says:
Full service carriers in particular are in disarray. Mergers are no option in bleak Asian airline environment and almost all airlines are universally deeply in the red. At present there is no obvious reason for optimism in the regionís legacy airline sector...critical to expansion of the LCC segment is the proactive liberalisation of aviation access.

Tis time you blokes downunder stoped throwing stones at each other and started to think about the LCC freight train coming your way.

You can only hope that your association's leadership comes good with the career opportunity. WoodenEye seems so proud of.

It pains me to point out the obvious, but without it, ya .

Last edited by GlobalMaster; 14th Aug 2009 at 22:23. Reason: Removal of Hangover Effects
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Old 14th Aug 2009, 11:43
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Sorry I misunderstood your post Blown.... I didn't realise you were just asking a simple question... I thought you were casting aspersions.

Lets give credit where it's due.

Here's a simple question for you:

What you would have done to manage the crisis more effectively had you still been on the Exec?
CaptCloudbuster is online now  
Old 14th Aug 2009, 11:44
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 297
What sacrifices have you made Blow-n-gasket? How long have you been in the charlie Q, The world has changed.Many junior pilots don't know where their career are going at the moment and all you can do is throw stones...wouldn't it be better to unite your team around you and make a difference.....Were you part of the Woodeye crew? Did you get anyone a payrise...hmmmmm...let me think.
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Old 14th Aug 2009, 22:55
  #28 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 83
Hmmm! In monetary terms, the EBA 8 Offer was far superior to what rolling over EBA 7 provided. (Ie: 4 x 3% & a one off 4%) compared with:
  • Back pay of 3% pa from 1 Jan 07,
  • A new B744 fleet pay structure for all LH pilots,
  • An increase in MGH to 175 hrs - not 160,
  • A increase in agreed Fleet pay rates of 3% annually,
  • Full CPI protection by way of a bonus bank on top of the 3% annual fleet pay increase,
  • Introduction of an employee share purchase plan using salary sacrifice dollars ($1.51 buy when Qantas raised capital in March- now $2.50)
As its architect (Garry Duggan) says elsewhere
Just... the many benefits buried by the misinformation.
And when it comes to career protection, EBA8 didn't let Qantas New Zealand be used to threaten Mainline; as the EBA7 Rollover has.

IMHO, the rejection of LHEBA 8, orchestrated by political vested interests with scant regard for other than soon to be A380 Captains, is probably the greatest folly unwittingly committed by Qantas LH pilots in my 30 yrs in Qantas?

Yes, EBA 8 also required LH pilots to endorse simplicity and flexibility and it was this aspect of it, that was used to kill it.

Worry now is - that very same simplicity and flexibility is required if the Qantas Group is to prosper and Mainline compete with Jetstar.

Best solution all round means, career progress and the kicking the GOAL.

Last edited by WoodenEye; 14th Aug 2009 at 23:49.
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Old 15th Aug 2009, 00:23
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Woodeneye.

Dont agree with you on a lot of things, but I do agree with your assessment of EBA 8

What I find interesting is that 'the second officers champion', that idiot 'chuck' has been NOWHERE to be seen when S/O's were recently threatened with redundancy. I'll bet my left ball he didnt take a flexi line.

What a pack of hypocrites the whole anti EBA8 crowd is - the horse trainer, DD, the whole lot of them.

We are dead men walking now. All of us. As I said to a my F/O recently, its time to begin to prepare for your career after QF. Get qualifications outside of aviation, be aware of what required for contract jobs ect ect
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Old 15th Aug 2009, 00:30
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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mohikan,

I'll bet my left ball he didnt take a flexi line.
According to the Flexi-Line FSO released on qfflightcrew.com yesterday, Chuck has indeed taken a 150hr flexi-line.

Now, what am I going to do with your left nut? Make a nice necklace perhaps?
Transition Layer is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2009, 00:40
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Posts: 137
Dragun,the AFAP are fully occupied at the moment beating the crap out of the AAPMBF trustees so for any other important issues please don't call them until the beatings have stopped.DD.
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Old 15th Aug 2009, 00:59
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Posts: 175
TL.

I will have to be a pretty big necklace to carry such a heavy load LOL
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Old 15th Aug 2009, 03:47
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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IMHO, the rejection of LHEBA 8, orchestrated by political vested interests with scant regard for other than soon to be A380 Captains, is probably the greatest folly unwittingly committed by Qantas LH pilots in my 30 yrs in Qantas?
Not so. Not by a long shot.
The greatest folly unwittingly committed by Qantas LH pilots was electing you and your lot into power at AIPA. 3 years in the darkness.
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Old 15th Aug 2009, 04:11
  #34 (permalink)  
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Even Wombats & Cyber bullies are entitled to an opinion.

Nonetheless, if what AIPA, on my watch, had to do to fend off the intended wholesale transition of the Qantas Group to APA and shut out any potential to spin off Jetstar; (matters, which were at the time understood by very few, but are now obvious to all except those who refuse to see; then public accusation of 'three years in the dark', is criticism I am very proud to cop.

Given the Work Choice legislation of the time, donít believe there was any other way to do it. Thankfully that piece of regressive legislation is now history and the door is open for Harvard style win/win progress.

I wait with interest to see what upcoming LHEBA negotiations bring forth and whether or not the outcome is as good as what LH EBA 8 offered.

Good luck!

Last edited by WoodenEye; 15th Aug 2009 at 04:24.
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Old 15th Aug 2009, 05:59
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Oh yeah mohikan and IW, EBA 8 would have avoided all this stuff now........not. What planet are you guys on?
Not Earth, that's for sure. EBA 8 was smashed by over 70% of the pilot population, not 2 or 3. Or are you saying that just a few people have such a hold over the pilots that they would blindly follow them to vote the way they did. You have to face it 1500 pilots smashed the EBA and it was the best thing that ever happened....haha.
Face it Wooden Eye, you tried and you failed and you were moved on. Don't be bitter and twisted. Enjoy your twilight years.
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Old 15th Aug 2009, 08:28
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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If you believe that the 3 years in the darkness were caused by AIPA, ask some of the Exec at the time about "The transcript" over a cold beer.

Have your eyes opened. The plans for the LH pilot body were in place long before Wood-eye got there. They continue to be enacted today.
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Old 15th Aug 2009, 08:29
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
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No wonder the Brits up here still think Australia isnít civilised.

Obviously Wombat and Autobrakeís canít read or donít care that it has already been pointed out that itís time they:
  • stoped throwing stones and started to think about the LCC freight train.
Malicious posts only serve to raise the temperature and lift the bar for those still trying. They contribute nothing and suggest that the authors arenít really Australians, let alone Qantas pilots. Most Australianís I know up here, wouldnít consider Ww and Ab suitable to represent either.

Right now, people like my brother, are sweating on the guys in AIPA implementing a career pathway that will keep them employed and get them promoted.

Please just get on with it.
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Old 15th Aug 2009, 10:51
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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To Cloudduster, busdriver etal,

It doesn't matter two hoots what I think.
It doesn't matter two hoots what the guy sitting next to me thinks.
What does matter is what the majority thinks.
Unfortunately the majority sometimes gets a pretty filtered view of what's happening.
What asolutely flabbergasts me is how some of you lot went out of your way to undermine policies Woodeneye tried to instigate for what one can only guess to be as political gain leading up to the Exec elections.
So who cast the first stones? Why couldn't you lot "get on with it then"?
Funny how some of these policies that you lot then were so happy to undermine and threaten pilot's careers with ,you are now happy to embrace as your own ,seeing that you're now in the drivers seat and need to get on with it.Is that because due to the legislation of the day there are limited paths to follow? Maybe Woodeneye knew something after all.

PS Autobrakes, how do you explain away the Shorthaul EBA vote.
It was an almost identical result yet the baby wasn't thrown out with the bathwater there was it?. No , the massive NO vote there gave leverage to re-negotiate some of the more contentious issues ,didn't it. Ask some of your mates in management why they wanted EBA8 sunk, and what the strategic benefits there are for management in having EBA7 "rolled over".
When it comes time for Qantas pilots being forced to meet the market as they're backed further and further into a corner I'm sure Management will take pity on us and "go easy". Who knows when the time comes, which it will, EBA8 may just be missed.
GlobalMaster is correct ,Management's tune hasn't changed only the pipers tune leading the troops has.
At the end of the day will the destination we're being led be worth it?
For that matter just what is Team Bazza's vision?
For all our sakes I hope it's a good one!

Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 15th Aug 2009 at 11:21.
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Old 15th Aug 2009, 11:26
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 39
It's a dark and stormy night , your about to start the approach. Your low on fuel . It's not the time to be arguing over what minima should be set. No conflict in the cockpit . One chance to get it right. Good luck
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Old 15th Aug 2009, 12:25
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 97
The same 10 or so clowns out of about 2400 pilots are still bleating whenever anything to do with the previous admin is mentioned.

Time for the turkeys to bury their heads in the sand and move on with life. Surely by now they must realise there are many who desert bars when the aforementioned are suspected of being close by. Get over the politics you losers and just get behind whoever is in power, not undermine them.
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