ADS-B, Stuff that I have found.
Folks,
Airservices canned WAAS in Australia, because there was no way to charge for it, what a shame!!
Remember, we did have WAAS coverage until a few years ago, but the (I think PamAmSat) satellite was moved east over the Pacific ---- or the service moved to another more easterly satellite.
Generation 3 GPS will produce WAAS accuracy, without WAAS, for everything but aircraft and high speed rail, so aviation in Australia misses out again.
The "post Airservices" DoI &T look at WAAS as a national infrastructure effort went nowhere, because of Gen 3 GPS, coming soon to a receiver near you, and the major airline saying they had no use for WAAS ---- so the rest of aviation looses.
Thanks, Minister.
Tootle pip!!
Airservices canned WAAS in Australia, because there was no way to charge for it, what a shame!!
Remember, we did have WAAS coverage until a few years ago, but the (I think PamAmSat) satellite was moved east over the Pacific ---- or the service moved to another more easterly satellite.
Generation 3 GPS will produce WAAS accuracy, without WAAS, for everything but aircraft and high speed rail, so aviation in Australia misses out again.
The "post Airservices" DoI &T look at WAAS as a national infrastructure effort went nowhere, because of Gen 3 GPS, coming soon to a receiver near you, and the major airline saying they had no use for WAAS ---- so the rest of aviation looses.
Thanks, Minister.
Tootle pip!!
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OZ: Haha, yeah, hadn't even thought of that, we have plenty of powered and maintained ground stations they could put the gear in.
So it probably would have been a few extra millions installation and negligible maintenance. Sigh...
T28D: the internet capacity of the birds is irrelevant. You just need to add a completely different electronics package on there just for the WAAS, that's all.
So it probably would have been a few extra millions installation and negligible maintenance. Sigh...
T28D: the internet capacity of the birds is irrelevant. You just need to add a completely different electronics package on there just for the WAAS, that's all.
baswell,
The estimate for the ground station initial installation for Australia was, as I recall, between AUD$26M and $38M when the AUD was about 78C US, so much cheaper now, with an annual running cost of about AUD$5-6M, a pittance, really, in the big scheme of things.
Indeed, what the government has just spent on advertising the carbon tax would have covered it comfortable.
Tootle pip!!
The estimate for the ground station initial installation for Australia was, as I recall, between AUD$26M and $38M when the AUD was about 78C US, so much cheaper now, with an annual running cost of about AUD$5-6M, a pittance, really, in the big scheme of things.
Indeed, what the government has just spent on advertising the carbon tax would have covered it comfortable.
Tootle pip!!
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A classic piece of technology. The "link".
It comes up, "Internet explorer cannot display this webpage".
I'm going to buy a Lada Niva, the 16 valve model. Its got 8 in the wireless.
EDIT to add the new link works, thanks.
It comes up, "Internet explorer cannot display this webpage".
I'm going to buy a Lada Niva, the 16 valve model. Its got 8 in the wireless.
EDIT to add the new link works, thanks.
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Nearly four years old but interesting to gauge how things have progressed
This was possible 20 years ago if the powers that be just had gotten their heads out of their arses.
And by now it would have been so cheap that every lighty would have come with it as standard too.
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T28D: if they had figured out before they ordered these birds that this is what they wanted, they could have made sure they had space for it. 
Same as for the Optus birds; I have no doubt that they would have loved to share their launch cost with the government by hosting WAAS on it and gladly would have made room.
Impossible is nothing... (unless you are dealing with government)
Same as for the Optus birds; I have no doubt that they would have loved to share their launch cost with the government by hosting WAAS on it and gladly would have made room.Impossible is nothing... (unless you are dealing with government)
baswell,
You obviously didn't understand what I said:
The Government positively decided against WAAS, because, after the implementation of Generation 3 GPS, you will have WAAS or better position accuracy for all but high speed moving platforms.
The Government decided, based on the major airlines disinterest ( they would only pay for LAAS or whatever its new name is - - GBAS),and no other major application, that they would not invest just for what was left of aviation ---- Regionals and GA.
There are NO plans to take advantage of the coverage for the Japanese satellite, same reason. It looks like PNG will go WAAS in the not too distant future, it will make a huge difference in servicing the mining, oil and gas industry in the southern highlands.
OZ,
Can't help myself, but what does come to mind is the thought: " Move on, folks, nothing new here" ----- but elsewhere there is something new, with FAA confirming the long anticipated adoption of VDL-2 (TDMA) as the mandatory datalink.
Just to remind everybody, VDL-2 + ADS-B/C data = VDL-4.
And, if the original ICAO plan had been followed through, and not been hijacked by (mostly) US airlines, who were promised a "quick, cheap and easy" ADS-B using 1090ES transponders, VDL-4 would have satisfied all the datalink requirements in a modern digital (relatively) broad band format, instead of the highly constricted 1909ES requiring separate datalinks. As some of you will know, ARINC and SITA converted from the old VHF ACARS to VDL-2 some time ago, including Australia.
And, as we are all too well aware, 1090ES ADS-B has proven to be neither cheap nor easy, particularly for Australian GA, with unique mandates for GA, unlike the rest of the world.
I not that FAA has also just announced the subsidies for airlines to fit 1909ES ADS-B ---- because of the up to US$500,000 per aircraft, but no subsidy for GA UAT, because it is cheap and easy --- and the far less restrictive mandate, compared to Australia, despite ten times of more US traffic ---- comparing apples and apples, not the apples and oranges comparisons used to try and justify the Australian mandate.
Remember, VDL-4 was the FIRST (not Australia) routine use of ADS-B in CNS/ATM ---- in Scandinavia.
And, VDL-4 (or UAT) had become the ADS-B standard, we would have had access to cheap ADS-B for GA in Australia ---- instead of the expensive shambles we face.
Tootle pip!!
You obviously didn't understand what I said:
The Government positively decided against WAAS, because, after the implementation of Generation 3 GPS, you will have WAAS or better position accuracy for all but high speed moving platforms.
The Government decided, based on the major airlines disinterest ( they would only pay for LAAS or whatever its new name is - - GBAS),and no other major application, that they would not invest just for what was left of aviation ---- Regionals and GA.
There are NO plans to take advantage of the coverage for the Japanese satellite, same reason. It looks like PNG will go WAAS in the not too distant future, it will make a huge difference in servicing the mining, oil and gas industry in the southern highlands.
OZ,
Can't help myself, but what does come to mind is the thought: " Move on, folks, nothing new here" ----- but elsewhere there is something new, with FAA confirming the long anticipated adoption of VDL-2 (TDMA) as the mandatory datalink.
Just to remind everybody, VDL-2 + ADS-B/C data = VDL-4.
And, if the original ICAO plan had been followed through, and not been hijacked by (mostly) US airlines, who were promised a "quick, cheap and easy" ADS-B using 1090ES transponders, VDL-4 would have satisfied all the datalink requirements in a modern digital (relatively) broad band format, instead of the highly constricted 1909ES requiring separate datalinks. As some of you will know, ARINC and SITA converted from the old VHF ACARS to VDL-2 some time ago, including Australia.
And, as we are all too well aware, 1090ES ADS-B has proven to be neither cheap nor easy, particularly for Australian GA, with unique mandates for GA, unlike the rest of the world.
I not that FAA has also just announced the subsidies for airlines to fit 1909ES ADS-B ---- because of the up to US$500,000 per aircraft, but no subsidy for GA UAT, because it is cheap and easy --- and the far less restrictive mandate, compared to Australia, despite ten times of more US traffic ---- comparing apples and apples, not the apples and oranges comparisons used to try and justify the Australian mandate.
Remember, VDL-4 was the FIRST (not Australia) routine use of ADS-B in CNS/ATM ---- in Scandinavia.
And, VDL-4 (or UAT) had become the ADS-B standard, we would have had access to cheap ADS-B for GA in Australia ---- instead of the expensive shambles we face.
Tootle pip!!
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Finnaly gettin to have a better read of the OZBUSDRIVER link via #245
Identification of ADS-B System Vulnerabilities and Threats
Looks like spoofings out..
via Pg 8; "...The ADS-B signal can be spoofed... ...first broached (Dick Smith,) but the hype surrounding it soon evaporated..."
.... though they do seem to skirt thru any possibilitys of the GPS being turned off..
At least the critical bit is noted -
"The GPS is an integral component to the ADS-B system and any adverse effect has high consequence..."
Meanwhile, out in the real world, them future Osama's just keep trying...
"...A 26-year-old man from a Boston suburb was arrested Wednesday and accused of plotting to attack the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol with remote-controlled model planes packed with explosives.
These are not balsa-wood-and-rubber-band toys investigators are talking about. The FBI said Rezwan Ferdaus hoped to use military-jet replicas, 5 feet to 7 1/2 feet long, guided by GPS devices..."
Could model airplanes become a terrorist weapon? - US news - Security - msnbc.com
.
Finnaly gettin to have a better read of the OZBUSDRIVER link via #245
Identification of ADS-B System Vulnerabilities and Threats
Looks like spoofings out..
via Pg 8; "...The ADS-B signal can be spoofed... ...first broached (Dick Smith,) but the hype surrounding it soon evaporated..."
.... though they do seem to skirt thru any possibilitys of the GPS being turned off..
At least the critical bit is noted -
"The GPS is an integral component to the ADS-B system and any adverse effect has high consequence..."
Meanwhile, out in the real world, them future Osama's just keep trying...
"...A 26-year-old man from a Boston suburb was arrested Wednesday and accused of plotting to attack the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol with remote-controlled model planes packed with explosives.
These are not balsa-wood-and-rubber-band toys investigators are talking about. The FBI said Rezwan Ferdaus hoped to use military-jet replicas, 5 feet to 7 1/2 feet long, guided by GPS devices..."
Could model airplanes become a terrorist weapon? - US news - Security - msnbc.com
.
.
A post that has little to do with what i've been posting... Hmmm... seems 'poster' baswell hasn't been reading all the other threads on this subject..
Fer some 'perspective' some comments via ausairpower -
"...The US FAA is currently looking at the implementation of the Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS), which will see DGPS error signals broadcast over the continental US from geostationary INMARSAT satellites. Aircraft with suitable receivers will thus be able to exploit both wide area and local DGPS schemes to get the best possible positional accuracy.
The USAF have been decidedly unhappy about this development, as they invested US$21 billion into developing and deploying the NavStar constellation, and expend US$600 million yearly to run it, only to have what they perceive to be civilian freeloaders exploit their system and defeat the built in safeguards against hostile use. As things stand, the deployment of the FAA's WAAS will allow anybody with a suitable commercial DGPS receiver to achieve blind bombing accuracies well in excess of what is provided by basic PPS P-code whilst in US airspace.
This is a nightmare for the USAF, responsible for defending US airspace, as the deployment of DGPS will very quickly lead to a virtual complete dependency of the civilian ATC and traffic management system upon DGPS. The option of shutting down the WAAS system, as well as local DGPS beacons would become extremely difficult, even in wartime, as the civilian infrastructure ever cost conscious will have dismantled much of its existing base of older navaids such as VOR/DMEs and NDBs. Even should much of the VOR/DME/NDB infrastructure remain in place and functional, the next issue to contend with is civilian pilot currency. The ease of using GPS/DGPS will see a steady erosion of the skills base and currency in the usage of conventional navaids. Thus shutting down the high accuracy component of the civilian GPS infrastructure would introduce serious operational hazards..."
GPS Guided Weapons - Parts I-V
.
via baswell; Not that it will help our delusional friend BingBoy, but to put things into perspective:
Fer some 'perspective' some comments via ausairpower -
"...The US FAA is currently looking at the implementation of the Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS), which will see DGPS error signals broadcast over the continental US from geostationary INMARSAT satellites. Aircraft with suitable receivers will thus be able to exploit both wide area and local DGPS schemes to get the best possible positional accuracy.
The USAF have been decidedly unhappy about this development, as they invested US$21 billion into developing and deploying the NavStar constellation, and expend US$600 million yearly to run it, only to have what they perceive to be civilian freeloaders exploit their system and defeat the built in safeguards against hostile use. As things stand, the deployment of the FAA's WAAS will allow anybody with a suitable commercial DGPS receiver to achieve blind bombing accuracies well in excess of what is provided by basic PPS P-code whilst in US airspace.
This is a nightmare for the USAF, responsible for defending US airspace, as the deployment of DGPS will very quickly lead to a virtual complete dependency of the civilian ATC and traffic management system upon DGPS. The option of shutting down the WAAS system, as well as local DGPS beacons would become extremely difficult, even in wartime, as the civilian infrastructure ever cost conscious will have dismantled much of its existing base of older navaids such as VOR/DMEs and NDBs. Even should much of the VOR/DME/NDB infrastructure remain in place and functional, the next issue to contend with is civilian pilot currency. The ease of using GPS/DGPS will see a steady erosion of the skills base and currency in the usage of conventional navaids. Thus shutting down the high accuracy component of the civilian GPS infrastructure would introduce serious operational hazards..."
GPS Guided Weapons - Parts I-V
.
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How they vote in the United Nations:
Below are the actual voting records of various Arabic/Islamic States
which are recorded in both the US State Department and United Nations records:
Kuwait votes against the United States 67%of the time
Qatar votes against the United States 67%of the time
Morocco votes against the United States 70%of the time
United Arab Emirates votes against the United States 70%of the time.
Jordan votes against the United States 71%of the time.
Tunisia votes against the United States 71%of the time.
Saudi Arabia votes against the United States 73%of the time.
Yemen votes against the United States 74%of the time.
Algeria votes against the United States 74%of the time.
Oman votes against the United States 74%of the time.
Sudan votes against the United States 75%of the time.
Pakistan votes against the United States 75%of the time.
Libya votes against the United States 76%of the time.
Egypt votes against the United States 79%of the time.
Lebanon votes against the United States 80%of the time.
India votes against the United States 81%of the time.
Syria votes against the United States 84%of the time.
Mauritania votes against the United States 87%of the time.
U S Foreign Aid to those that hate us:
Egypt ,for example, after voting 79% of the time against the United States ,
still receives$2,000,000,000 annuallyin US Foreign Aid.
Jordanvotes 71% against the United States
And receives$192,814,000 annuallyin US Foreign Aid.
Pakistanvotes 75% against the United States
Receives$6,721,000,000annually in US Foreign Aid.
Indiavotes 81% against the United States
Receives$143,699,000annually.
WHY?
Below are the actual voting records of various Arabic/Islamic States
which are recorded in both the US State Department and United Nations records:
Kuwait votes against the United States 67%of the time
Qatar votes against the United States 67%of the time
Morocco votes against the United States 70%of the time
United Arab Emirates votes against the United States 70%of the time.
Jordan votes against the United States 71%of the time.
Tunisia votes against the United States 71%of the time.
Saudi Arabia votes against the United States 73%of the time.
Yemen votes against the United States 74%of the time.
Algeria votes against the United States 74%of the time.
Oman votes against the United States 74%of the time.
Sudan votes against the United States 75%of the time.
Pakistan votes against the United States 75%of the time.
Libya votes against the United States 76%of the time.
Egypt votes against the United States 79%of the time.
Lebanon votes against the United States 80%of the time.
India votes against the United States 81%of the time.
Syria votes against the United States 84%of the time.
Mauritania votes against the United States 87%of the time.
U S Foreign Aid to those that hate us:
Egypt ,for example, after voting 79% of the time against the United States ,
still receives$2,000,000,000 annuallyin US Foreign Aid.
Jordanvotes 71% against the United States
And receives$192,814,000 annuallyin US Foreign Aid.
Pakistanvotes 75% against the United States
Receives$6,721,000,000annually in US Foreign Aid.
Indiavotes 81% against the United States
Receives$143,699,000annually.
WHY?
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A post that has little to do with what i've been posting...
Oh wait, you just made another one!
Even if it is a credible threat, that doesn't mean GPS is going to go away, is it? Last I heard, we still have airliners, rental trucks, petrol and fertiliser, as well as (in the US anyway) easy access to fire arms.
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T28D
Why? Is a very good question indeed. With their financial woes, it would make sense to cut all foreign aid immediately. Why they don't? Who knows?
Baswell....don't feed the trolls. Please! It ruins any rational debate.
Why? Is a very good question indeed. With their financial woes, it would make sense to cut all foreign aid immediately. Why they don't? Who knows?
Baswell....don't feed the trolls. Please! It ruins any rational debate.
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Baswell, Yes I get "IT" and understand they have already won the first battle, we now have security screening on most forms of mass transport , you can't get into a court in Australia without undergoing screening.
Am I worried about the shut down of GPS, No I am not, but am I concerned about the loss of freedoms the changes are bringing, yes I am and so should every Australian.
For General Aviation, fences at regional airports, ASIC for all airside personnel, Federal Police screening for pilots and other aircrew.
And it is getting worse, now it seems we are getting microwave screening at major airports.
Mat be thread drift, only time will tell.
As Gobbledock rightly says about another issue TICK TOCK TICK TOCK
Am I worried about the shut down of GPS, No I am not, but am I concerned about the loss of freedoms the changes are bringing, yes I am and so should every Australian.
For General Aviation, fences at regional airports, ASIC for all airside personnel, Federal Police screening for pilots and other aircrew.
And it is getting worse, now it seems we are getting microwave screening at major airports.
Mat be thread drift, only time will tell.
As Gobbledock rightly says about another issue TICK TOCK TICK TOCK