Merged: Pel Air vs RFDS for the Air Ambulance contract in Australia
Lester; maybe the RFDS were overpriced, who knows...but you have to wonder about the state of play in general when ambulance services are
Quote:
in a commercial world
?? Or is it just me?
Quote:
in a commercial world
?? Or is it just me?
How is the Air Ambulance function any less vital? Why sould the level of expertise be determined ultimately by commercial considerations?
Don't get me wrong, I understand Aviation is a business, but emergency services should not be.
Our Governments, collectivley, have their priorities in their
.
History will show that this contract has only ever been with one operator for a maximum of three tenders. The loss of this contract should not be really surprising if you look at it's history.
I think people are being swept up in the belief that the RFDS are the only provider of aeromedical expertise Australia wide. Unfortunately this contract operates under the Victorian Air Ambulance requirements not the RFDS. Experience levels, aircraft, maintenance etc are clearly laid out by the Ambulance service, this will NOT compromise the level of service to the residents of Victoria. Maybe the RFDS felt that they should stipulate the requirements of this contract?
What about the previous providers to this contract? The last provider maintained a very good reputation in standards and maintenance. All of their pilots were recruited with various levels of experience and backgrounds.
I think people are being swept up in the belief that the RFDS are the only provider of aeromedical expertise Australia wide. Unfortunately this contract operates under the Victorian Air Ambulance requirements not the RFDS. Experience levels, aircraft, maintenance etc are clearly laid out by the Ambulance service, this will NOT compromise the level of service to the residents of Victoria. Maybe the RFDS felt that they should stipulate the requirements of this contract?
What about the previous providers to this contract? The last provider maintained a very good reputation in standards and maintenance. All of their pilots were recruited with various levels of experience and backgrounds.
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Well, this is indeed a very disappointing time for the RFDS – an end of an era!
I too am one of the affected crew at the Essendon base and was very disappointed to hear of the loss of the contract.
I take my hat off to each and everyone involved with our current contract. We work with a wonderful team of people, not just the pilots, who support each other to no end. The check & training is superb, more so after the introduction of the simulator – probably the best I have encountered in my 18 years in the industry – job well done!. The office/admin staff who work tirelessly behind the scenes and make things happen – well done and thank you. The engineers who really are worth their weight in gold! The list goes on…. a big thank you to all directly involved with the Essendon contract.
To the flight paramedics, you ladies and gents are fantastic at what you do. It has been an absolute pleasure to be able to fly with you. Many people don’t realise what an awesome and challenging job these paramedics do and that they are indeed an integral part of the onboard crew. They are the best in the business!
We can’t forget the people outside of the contract either. To the ATC ladies and gents – thanks for guiding us to wherever we go and back. EN ATC, what can I say, awesome and accommodating team of people – thank you. To the refuellers, thank you for filling us during all hours of the day and night. There are obviously other people to thank but the list would just be too long – you know who you are. Thank you.
The work we do is exceptional and in many ways quite unique in the aviation industry. You know, we aren’t just pilots! We, more often than not, see people on the worst day of their lives. We have to deal with the grief of family members, console loved ones, console patients…. The list goes on. On the other end of the spectrum we have had patients die on board. This is by no means an easy job and at times can get very emotional and you just have to stay focussed. It’s definitely not for everyone. To see a patient smile, pass on a “thank you Capt” or even get a hug from a family member or relative is worth its weight in gold and makes this job just so rewarding.
The Royal Flying Doctor Service of Australia - Our Video
On the flying side of things, the King Air is an absolute pleasure to fly and perfect for the job. Apart from the medical aspects and requirements, flying presents its own set of other challenges. The biggest factor is weather but often patient requirements change enroute and this will dictate where we go or end up. Flight plan changes whilst taxiing are not uncommon.
The new contractor will certainly have some big shoes to fill. No new contract is easy and will certainly present some challenging moments and times ahead. I wish the new contractors all the best with this important and vital service for the Victorian public. I certainly hope that they respect the fact that this is an aeromedical contract and that Air Ambulance Victoria prides itself immensely in the work that it delivers and above all respects its safety record.
If it is true that 2 crew King Air 350s are on the cards then this will certainly present new territory for the Air Ambulance. I’m not sure if two crew is the way to go but I am happy to be proven wrong. I am all for giving low time pilots (cadets or otherwise) a go but an aeromedical environment is not a place for “training” someone up in the right hand seat. I wonder if CASA will or would approve the 350 for single pilot operations in an aeromedical environment? I guess only time will tell when full details emerge.
Another influential factor, on the new contract, will be salary. Finding the right people with a suitable skill set and applicable experience for the job won’t be easy if the salary is not competitive with the current aeromedical industry. Again, only time will tell when full details emerge.
I am certain though, that the new contractor will treat this contract, as all previous contractors have done, with the utmost respect. The level of service to the people of Victoria and those interstate will definitely not change.
Two years is still a long way off.... This is aviation!
I too am one of the affected crew at the Essendon base and was very disappointed to hear of the loss of the contract.
I take my hat off to each and everyone involved with our current contract. We work with a wonderful team of people, not just the pilots, who support each other to no end. The check & training is superb, more so after the introduction of the simulator – probably the best I have encountered in my 18 years in the industry – job well done!. The office/admin staff who work tirelessly behind the scenes and make things happen – well done and thank you. The engineers who really are worth their weight in gold! The list goes on…. a big thank you to all directly involved with the Essendon contract.
To the flight paramedics, you ladies and gents are fantastic at what you do. It has been an absolute pleasure to be able to fly with you. Many people don’t realise what an awesome and challenging job these paramedics do and that they are indeed an integral part of the onboard crew. They are the best in the business!
We can’t forget the people outside of the contract either. To the ATC ladies and gents – thanks for guiding us to wherever we go and back. EN ATC, what can I say, awesome and accommodating team of people – thank you. To the refuellers, thank you for filling us during all hours of the day and night. There are obviously other people to thank but the list would just be too long – you know who you are. Thank you.
The work we do is exceptional and in many ways quite unique in the aviation industry. You know, we aren’t just pilots! We, more often than not, see people on the worst day of their lives. We have to deal with the grief of family members, console loved ones, console patients…. The list goes on. On the other end of the spectrum we have had patients die on board. This is by no means an easy job and at times can get very emotional and you just have to stay focussed. It’s definitely not for everyone. To see a patient smile, pass on a “thank you Capt” or even get a hug from a family member or relative is worth its weight in gold and makes this job just so rewarding.
The Royal Flying Doctor Service of Australia - Our Video
On the flying side of things, the King Air is an absolute pleasure to fly and perfect for the job. Apart from the medical aspects and requirements, flying presents its own set of other challenges. The biggest factor is weather but often patient requirements change enroute and this will dictate where we go or end up. Flight plan changes whilst taxiing are not uncommon.
The new contractor will certainly have some big shoes to fill. No new contract is easy and will certainly present some challenging moments and times ahead. I wish the new contractors all the best with this important and vital service for the Victorian public. I certainly hope that they respect the fact that this is an aeromedical contract and that Air Ambulance Victoria prides itself immensely in the work that it delivers and above all respects its safety record.
If it is true that 2 crew King Air 350s are on the cards then this will certainly present new territory for the Air Ambulance. I’m not sure if two crew is the way to go but I am happy to be proven wrong. I am all for giving low time pilots (cadets or otherwise) a go but an aeromedical environment is not a place for “training” someone up in the right hand seat. I wonder if CASA will or would approve the 350 for single pilot operations in an aeromedical environment? I guess only time will tell when full details emerge.
Another influential factor, on the new contract, will be salary. Finding the right people with a suitable skill set and applicable experience for the job won’t be easy if the salary is not competitive with the current aeromedical industry. Again, only time will tell when full details emerge.
I am certain though, that the new contractor will treat this contract, as all previous contractors have done, with the utmost respect. The level of service to the people of Victoria and those interstate will definitely not change.
Two years is still a long way off.... This is aviation!
Last edited by ozblackbox; 8th Jul 2009 at 04:43.
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Its not over just yet
Hey all,
gee you know I don't come here often, last time I think was when we had a little incident at YCFS to put my 2c's worth in but I figured the rumours would start to fly again so I've popped in for a look.
I'd just like to say this.... Currently PelAir are the "preferred" tenderer, they have been invited into discussions with the Vic Govt re the tender. The tender at this stage has not to my knowledge been awarded as yet. Having said that let me say this. It will most likely not be changed, but if PelAir cannot deliver on what they have promised or if there are other issues that need to be resolved that cannot then we are back to square one.
For those currently employed by the RFDS in Vic, keep up the good work, B200 pilots don't grow on trees and especially with the contract requirements that the tender will require. I'm sure most if not all of you will go to work with a different coloured shirt one day, IF, the current negotiations with the "preferred" tenderer go well.
gee you know I don't come here often, last time I think was when we had a little incident at YCFS to put my 2c's worth in but I figured the rumours would start to fly again so I've popped in for a look.
I'd just like to say this.... Currently PelAir are the "preferred" tenderer, they have been invited into discussions with the Vic Govt re the tender. The tender at this stage has not to my knowledge been awarded as yet. Having said that let me say this. It will most likely not be changed, but if PelAir cannot deliver on what they have promised or if there are other issues that need to be resolved that cannot then we are back to square one.
For those currently employed by the RFDS in Vic, keep up the good work, B200 pilots don't grow on trees and especially with the contract requirements that the tender will require. I'm sure most if not all of you will go to work with a different coloured shirt one day, IF, the current negotiations with the "preferred" tenderer go well.
RFDS SE
Disclaimer: Have never had anything to do with REX/PELAIR but think the Mike Whiskey drivers are the best in the business.
This just throws up so many questions. In two years time when the GFC has passed, and major carriers recruitment starts to move again one can only gather that REX/PELAIR will again be facing pilot shortages on two fronts.
I gather there will be big penalities if they are not ready to rock and roll from day one and maintain services for the life of the contract.
(Whilst the RFDS is a lifestyle-salary rates can only plunge with REX/PELAIR involved). From all the tenders I would have thought they would have come in last. Cobham surely would have even submitted a suitable tender. Guess they know something I don't....
As others have said aeromedical services are not the place for training cadets.
If something aint broken....why the need to fix it.
All the best to the YMEN guys and gals.
This just throws up so many questions. In two years time when the GFC has passed, and major carriers recruitment starts to move again one can only gather that REX/PELAIR will again be facing pilot shortages on two fronts.
I gather there will be big penalities if they are not ready to rock and roll from day one and maintain services for the life of the contract.
(Whilst the RFDS is a lifestyle-salary rates can only plunge with REX/PELAIR involved). From all the tenders I would have thought they would have come in last. Cobham surely would have even submitted a suitable tender. Guess they know something I don't....
As others have said aeromedical services are not the place for training cadets.
If something aint broken....why the need to fix it.
All the best to the YMEN guys and gals.
Having seen a copy of the tender requirements , one hopes the Pelair people have read the fine print, lots of big dollars in penalties if you can't supply an airframe or pilot to meet the contractual obligations.
Two crew is nice but its not a place to be running a cadet pilot programme for your regional airline operation.
Will the B350 be able to go into all the strips that the B200 goes into?
Is the B350 able to be fitted with the big door for loading patients?
Think of the dollars Pelair wil have to outlay to ensure production slots if they go for new aircraft, the cost of the aeromedical fitouts, strecher loading devices etc?
No B350 simulator in Australia, so off to the states for endorsements, or lots of money spent in the real aeroplane!
Vic air ambulance learnt a very hard lesson in the mid 1980's when a C402 was lost on departure out of Essendon. It rapidly changed there thinking in relation to who supplied the aircraft, pilot skill level and employment status. One of the reasons they went with Sunstate(Mildura) later Southern Australia was they were owned by Australian Airlines and had the financial rescources to put into the contract and also had access to Australian Airlines for technical assistance, quality control etc.
Lots of question to be answered over the next two years!
Just remember over the years we have seen the Amman debacle and the Victorian division of the NSCA implode, we watch this one with interest.
Two crew is nice but its not a place to be running a cadet pilot programme for your regional airline operation.
Will the B350 be able to go into all the strips that the B200 goes into?
Is the B350 able to be fitted with the big door for loading patients?
Think of the dollars Pelair wil have to outlay to ensure production slots if they go for new aircraft, the cost of the aeromedical fitouts, strecher loading devices etc?
No B350 simulator in Australia, so off to the states for endorsements, or lots of money spent in the real aeroplane!
Vic air ambulance learnt a very hard lesson in the mid 1980's when a C402 was lost on departure out of Essendon. It rapidly changed there thinking in relation to who supplied the aircraft, pilot skill level and employment status. One of the reasons they went with Sunstate(Mildura) later Southern Australia was they were owned by Australian Airlines and had the financial rescources to put into the contract and also had access to Australian Airlines for technical assistance, quality control etc.
Lots of question to be answered over the next two years!
Just remember over the years we have seen the Amman debacle and the Victorian division of the NSCA implode, we watch this one with interest.
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What would happen to the RFDS base at essendon? Would that be shut down & aircraft sent to other sections? And what would this mean for RFDS Tas, no spare aircraft close by?
Will PelAir go for the tas contract when that falls due??
Will PelAir go for the tas contract when that falls due??
I'd like to second my colleges(ozbb) comments & some:-)
I think some might not realize that the contract is for the supply of suitable airframes, pilots, engineers & support staff full stop, the RFDS in this case has nothing to do with the medical side of it, we are just the transport side of things unlike other traditional RFDS bases where the whole shooting match is operated by the RFDS (inc med staff). So anyone could actually do what we do re the flying aspect of it, just remains to be seen if the new operators (Pelair all gong well) do the task as satisfactory.
I hope that Pelair have the clout to handle this.
The RFDS had just as much right to tender for this new contract as it had for the previous ones, in this instance the contract to the RFDS was purely a commercial venture, we lost I suspect due cost, well I hope it was 'cause as fas as the AAV (Air Ambulance Vic ) are concerned we where & still are doing a damn fine job. The use of B350's will move the goal posts a little & make some of the small dirt strips we flew into inaccessible I believe here in Vic such airframes are a waste. With our average sector being around 35 mins a 350 over a 200 would make bugger all difference, (granted they would carry more) still that's for the boffins to decide, we just fly 'em.
"TQ" a shinny new PC12 sounds delightful, where do I sign up?
"S8" The cost of a B350 ready to go would be incredible, for a fully equipped B200 in AeroMed config is around $8Mill each, & takes 6 months to have ready once the airframe hits our shores green from the Factory.
To all those that think the RFDS is/was arrogant etc with this contract or whatever well I say this. The RFDS is made up of one thing that counts at the end of the day, PEOPLE, the people on the ground that actually do the hard miles day after day, just like you & me!
Myself & my colleges will still go on doing the same job right up 'till we park 'em for the last time, it's then I shall sit back some day on my mythical veranda, in my mythical rocking chair & say very proudly, I once flew for the RFDS & was part of a great institution, that none of you can ever take away from us:-)
Wmk2
I think some might not realize that the contract is for the supply of suitable airframes, pilots, engineers & support staff full stop, the RFDS in this case has nothing to do with the medical side of it, we are just the transport side of things unlike other traditional RFDS bases where the whole shooting match is operated by the RFDS (inc med staff). So anyone could actually do what we do re the flying aspect of it, just remains to be seen if the new operators (Pelair all gong well) do the task as satisfactory.
I hope that Pelair have the clout to handle this.
The RFDS had just as much right to tender for this new contract as it had for the previous ones, in this instance the contract to the RFDS was purely a commercial venture, we lost I suspect due cost, well I hope it was 'cause as fas as the AAV (Air Ambulance Vic ) are concerned we where & still are doing a damn fine job. The use of B350's will move the goal posts a little & make some of the small dirt strips we flew into inaccessible I believe here in Vic such airframes are a waste. With our average sector being around 35 mins a 350 over a 200 would make bugger all difference, (granted they would carry more) still that's for the boffins to decide, we just fly 'em.
"TQ" a shinny new PC12 sounds delightful, where do I sign up?
"S8" The cost of a B350 ready to go would be incredible, for a fully equipped B200 in AeroMed config is around $8Mill each, & takes 6 months to have ready once the airframe hits our shores green from the Factory.
To all those that think the RFDS is/was arrogant etc with this contract or whatever well I say this. The RFDS is made up of one thing that counts at the end of the day, PEOPLE, the people on the ground that actually do the hard miles day after day, just like you & me!
Myself & my colleges will still go on doing the same job right up 'till we park 'em for the last time, it's then I shall sit back some day on my mythical veranda, in my mythical rocking chair & say very proudly, I once flew for the RFDS & was part of a great institution, that none of you can ever take away from us:-)
Wmk2
Rumour is that the Tasmanian government are looking at going all rotary with a Bell 412 based out of the north west and another one in Hobart.
The Dr Sharley report is pro helicopter a lot more efficient, medical staff prefer rotary and it has the ability to operate in all weathers to the west coast etc. Interesting reading for those who like to see how government departments look at problem solving etc.
Looks like the B200 is so last century!
The Dr Sharley report is pro helicopter a lot more efficient, medical staff prefer rotary and it has the ability to operate in all weathers to the west coast etc. Interesting reading for those who like to see how government departments look at problem solving etc.
Looks like the B200 is so last century!
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Wally
Your post #40, please don't use past tense when you say the strips we FLEW into, at lot of water under the bridge yet
I don't know how many watched "Four Corners" on Monday night. A good example of a commercialised approach to Health Services.
Good luck people
Frothy
Your post #40, please don't use past tense when you say the strips we FLEW into, at lot of water under the bridge yet
I don't know how many watched "Four Corners" on Monday night. A good example of a commercialised approach to Health Services.
Good luck people
Frothy
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I know it's a shame to see the RFDS lose the contract, but remember they were not the original contractor holder. They won the tender when Southern Airlines gave up the contract. Regarding the NSW contract once again the RFDS were not the original contractor holder, do you remember East West with the Queenair's and it was when Skywest got the contract the Kingairs arrived. So what has occured in VIC is nothing new.
Hey "S8" I'd say that an all Helo op down in '2 headed land' would be a mistake.
Lots of lovely ice at low levels, no Alt's available that the Helo could plan too due distance (off island) & a higher specialized maint, all adds up too BIG dollars:-)
Still dumber things have happened in aviation b4:-)
'OS' sometimes we get caught out with Med 1. I can recall in the middle of the night there a few years ago I had the Med team on board to go save some dumb ass and about to depart rwy 26 @ EN when I got told there would be a delay of around 5 mins due international traffic sliding on down the 16 ML ILS & they needed to protect the overshoot area (of which I would have crossed on departure). I didn't go as Med 1 at first thinking that nah who would be out here at this time of night to hold us up? So from now on even if the Dr needs a P1ss then it's Med one all the way Kidding:-)
Wmk2
Lots of lovely ice at low levels, no Alt's available that the Helo could plan too due distance (off island) & a higher specialized maint, all adds up too BIG dollars:-)
Still dumber things have happened in aviation b4:-)
'OS' sometimes we get caught out with Med 1. I can recall in the middle of the night there a few years ago I had the Med team on board to go save some dumb ass and about to depart rwy 26 @ EN when I got told there would be a delay of around 5 mins due international traffic sliding on down the 16 ML ILS & they needed to protect the overshoot area (of which I would have crossed on departure). I didn't go as Med 1 at first thinking that nah who would be out here at this time of night to hold us up? So from now on even if the Dr needs a P1ss then it's Med one all the way
Kidding:-)Wmk2
Not quite correct GAFA, the RFDS NSW bought Sothern's Air Ambulance contract in the late 1990's, because Qantas wanted to end any association with piston twins asap, and because Southern wanted to expand its airline operations and didn't want spend $20 million plus buying four B200's for the new contract.
The Victorian government were very keen to get Ansett to tender for the contract in 2000, so that the business could stay with a Victorian company.
The RFDS job in Essendon would have to be one of the best jobs around, mostly 8 hour shifts, overtime paid if your shift gets extended, good equipment and Vic Air Ambulance staff used to be mighty fine people to work with!
The Victorian government were very keen to get Ansett to tender for the contract in 2000, so that the business could stay with a Victorian company.
The RFDS job in Essendon would have to be one of the best jobs around, mostly 8 hour shifts, overtime paid if your shift gets extended, good equipment and Vic Air Ambulance staff used to be mighty fine people to work with!
Last edited by Stationair8; 8th Jul 2009 at 10:58. Reason: Spelling mistake
Only this time there isn't a vibrant G/A on which to daw the caibre of people to fly the missions.
You pay peanuts and you will get monkeys, or at the very least applicants of inferior quality. Amazingly, (considering the recent past) something REX/Pelair have yet to come to grips with!
You pay peanuts and you will get monkeys, or at the very least applicants of inferior quality. Amazingly, (considering the recent past) something REX/Pelair have yet to come to grips with!
Ever meant a happy REX employee?
If they are that f%&*ing stingy they ration out the mints on an RPT flight, WTF are they going to be like on aeromedical flights? Sorry sick one you have used up your oxygen, please stop inhaling Pelair/Rex's oxygen, this will come out of our profit!!
Hey Jim, how is your margin call?
How will the ego in the training department cope training up pilots for this contract? You need six solo lunar landings now to get a gig on the Saab, make sure you know your Aip's backwards!!!
If they are that f%&*ing stingy they ration out the mints on an RPT flight, WTF are they going to be like on aeromedical flights? Sorry sick one you have used up your oxygen, please stop inhaling Pelair/Rex's oxygen, this will come out of our profit!!
Hey Jim, how is your margin call?
How will the ego in the training department cope training up pilots for this contract? You need six solo lunar landings now to get a gig on the Saab, make sure you know your Aip's backwards!!!
Moderator
Can someone post a link to an announcement that the Contract has actually been awarded to Pelair? 