Merged: TodayTonight: communication difficulties Monday
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Merged: TodayTonight: communication difficulties Monday
Just caught the end of TodayTonight (was running through channels, not a regular watcher, I'd rather have a lobotomy without anaesthetic, which I guess is what TodayTonight is...), and they were previewing a segment on Monday. They've apparently recorded aircraft communications which are not able to be understood. Seemed to be typical "danger in the skies" sort of stuff.
I'll be interested to see just how bad it is portrayed as being. I know for a fact there are some woeful radio calls that get made out there (my all-time favourite, even though it wasn't particularly hard to understand, was the aircraft which announced it was "joining mid-cross-downwind"), but I wonder if this will be a typical media beat up. I'll laugh if it turns out the conversations are perfectly intelligible, the journos just can't understand what any of it means.
Anyone care to bet on which of their stock of 'aviation experts' they'll roll out to discuss this one?
TT
Edit: just realised what my signature is. Rest assured, I have nothing to do with the televisual 'TangoTango'.
I'll be interested to see just how bad it is portrayed as being. I know for a fact there are some woeful radio calls that get made out there (my all-time favourite, even though it wasn't particularly hard to understand, was the aircraft which announced it was "joining mid-cross-downwind"), but I wonder if this will be a typical media beat up. I'll laugh if it turns out the conversations are perfectly intelligible, the journos just can't understand what any of it means.
Anyone care to bet on which of their stock of 'aviation experts' they'll roll out to discuss this one?
TT
Edit: just realised what my signature is. Rest assured, I have nothing to do with the televisual 'TangoTango'.
I watched the preview of the segment, the main problem I found with understanding the calls was the amount of static, ie; a problem with the plane (or more likely) their recording equipment. The accent was there and only a minor nuisance and the two calls they previewed were pretty good considering they were recorded at training airfields (were you would expect people to make mistakes).
The 'journalist' commented that thousands of Australians were at risk due to these poor calls.
I would say this is a beat up that just exhibits chronic racism.
The 'journalist' commented that thousands of Australians were at risk due to these poor calls.
I would say this is a beat up that just exhibits chronic racism.
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I saw the preview too. Seems like a bit of a beat up. CASA's introduced the English standard test this year, and while it isn't watertight, at least they're doing something. Has anyone heard of any students failing the test? Will they bring up last years mid-air at YMMB?
I played ATC recording/streaming to my father a few weeks ago (liveatc.net) and he had difficulty understanding what was being said, and it was in plain english without any accents.
There are some woeful radio calls out there however!
I played ATC recording/streaming to my father a few weeks ago (liveatc.net) and he had difficulty understanding what was being said, and it was in plain english without any accents.
There are some woeful radio calls out there however!
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CASA's introduced the English standard test this year, and while it isn't watertight, at least they're doing something. Has anyone heard of any students failing the test?
If they want to latch on to a safety issue, might I suggest AFRUs that insist on beeping over the top of calls. Once was in the circuit with a few other aircraft, and the damn thing kept beeping in the middle of everyone's calls. It was a wonder anyone could work out what anyone else was trying to transmit.
TT
Well that section stretched even my racism to it's limits! Ridiculous.
The majority of communications I could hear perfectly well. The real bad one that was used in the sound grab was just one bad apple.
The 'journalist' tried to link this to the air crash in India involving a 747 and a freighter.
The majority of communications I could hear perfectly well. The real bad one that was used in the sound grab was just one bad apple.
The 'journalist' tried to link this to the air crash in India involving a 747 and a freighter.
Today Tonight on pilot's english..
As expected, 95% of the "unintelligible" transmissions were perfectly intelligible... yet the TV insists on transcribing "abeam Pt Ormond" as "at bang Pt Ormond"...
Love the footage of aircraft landing at Moorabbin, while the aircraft talks to Essendon Tower...
Love the footage of aircraft landing at Moorabbin, while the aircraft talks to Essendon Tower...
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What an absolute joke! The lack of quality recording equipment and perhaps attempting to record the transmissions miles away surely attributed to the problem. And they targetted the 1% of transmissions that are a bit dodgy.
Loved the footage of Moorabbin while listening to Essendon transmissions. Pure class.
Why can't they tackle AsA staff shortages instead of this rubbish!
Loved the footage of Moorabbin while listening to Essendon transmissions. Pure class.
Why can't they tackle AsA staff shortages instead of this rubbish!
Oh, good GRIEF!!
Even Today Tonight couldn't decipher the ATC transmissions!!
ATC: "Are you ON BANG Point Ormond?"
Ahhhhhhhhh - I think you mean "ABEAM Point Ormond", you imbeciles...
Look, we all know that some of our foreign pilots have less than stellar English, but **** - I've heard some absolute clangers in perfectly acceptable English.
Maybe, these pilots should sit an IELTS test (International English Language Testing) the same test that universities/tertiary institutions make any overseas students wanting to study here take. There's two levels:
* The IELTS test is in four components: Listening, Reading, Writing and Speaking.
o The Listening, Reading and Writing components of the test take approximately 2 hours and 45 minutes to complete. The speaking component takes approximately 20 minutes to complete.
* IELTS is available in two formats: Academic and General Training.
o The Academic modules assess whether a candidate is ready to study or train at degree level.
o The General Training modules are suitable for candidates who are going to undertake non academic training or for immigration purposes. Please go to the Department of Immigration and Citizenship website for more information.
The cost? About $160-200 - chicken feed to those students.
Hey, maybe CASA could set the acceptable pass marks.??.................oh, hang on, that's a BAD idea...
Even Today Tonight couldn't decipher the ATC transmissions!!
ATC: "Are you ON BANG Point Ormond?"
Ahhhhhhhhh - I think you mean "ABEAM Point Ormond", you imbeciles...
Look, we all know that some of our foreign pilots have less than stellar English, but **** - I've heard some absolute clangers in perfectly acceptable English.
Maybe, these pilots should sit an IELTS test (International English Language Testing) the same test that universities/tertiary institutions make any overseas students wanting to study here take. There's two levels:
* The IELTS test is in four components: Listening, Reading, Writing and Speaking.
o The Listening, Reading and Writing components of the test take approximately 2 hours and 45 minutes to complete. The speaking component takes approximately 20 minutes to complete.
* IELTS is available in two formats: Academic and General Training.
o The Academic modules assess whether a candidate is ready to study or train at degree level.
o The General Training modules are suitable for candidates who are going to undertake non academic training or for immigration purposes. Please go to the Department of Immigration and Citizenship website for more information.
The cost? About $160-200 - chicken feed to those students.
Hey, maybe CASA could set the acceptable pass marks.??.................oh, hang on, that's a BAD idea...
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I agree. Worthless beat up journalism at its worst. They would have been better doing a story as Tempy said, on the lack of controllers in ASA. How can a tower operate on 40% staff compared to a few years ago. Just crazy.
We did get a glimpse of the new CASA CEO though. Hardly saw Byron in front of the cameras.
We did get a glimpse of the new CASA CEO though. Hardly saw Byron in front of the cameras.
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"Essendown Tower, Today Tonight, a load of bollocks, is ready at runway forty four, received bugger all"
I almost fell out of my seat laughing when "at bang" came up in the transcript. People in glass houses...
I agree with the previous posters - most of the calls were understandable. My parents, neither of whom are involved in aviation, thought one of the hardest calls to understand was the one right at the end from the "Aussie" pilot. I have to say I found it a bit garbled too - sounded like he was racing to get it all out. Radio calls are not a race - there isn't a prize for most words per minute. Say it at a normal speed, and you'll be understood.
Coincidentally that episode is premiering on National Geographic tonight. I wonder how much they paid Today Tonight for the free advert?
Oh well, at least the story was so bollocks they couldn't even get an "aviation expert" to back it up on camera...
The sad thing is, there *is* a problem in my view with foreign students coming out here and being thrown in the deep end with not nearly enough support to learn English. It doesn't happen everywhere, but I have seen it first hand at a number of organisations. But hey, why draw attention to that real issue when instead you can have a nice rant against those foreigners.
TT
I almost fell out of my seat laughing when "at bang" came up in the transcript. People in glass houses...
I agree with the previous posters - most of the calls were understandable. My parents, neither of whom are involved in aviation, thought one of the hardest calls to understand was the one right at the end from the "Aussie" pilot. I have to say I found it a bit garbled too - sounded like he was racing to get it all out. Radio calls are not a race - there isn't a prize for most words per minute. Say it at a normal speed, and you'll be understood.
The 'journalist' tried to link this to the air crash in India involving a 747 and a freighter.
Oh well, at least the story was so bollocks they couldn't even get an "aviation expert" to back it up on camera...
The sad thing is, there *is* a problem in my view with foreign students coming out here and being thrown in the deep end with not nearly enough support to learn English. It doesn't happen everywhere, but I have seen it first hand at a number of organisations. But hey, why draw attention to that real issue when instead you can have a nice rant against those foreigners.
TT
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Utterly embarrassing - Racist claptrap beat up. Almost all of the transmissions were completely intelligible, with most of the radio errors simply a result of being a student pilot, not because of "the Asians" that the programme kept trying to blame. "at bang" was good for a laugh - showed just what gutter-dwellers these people are.
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Absolute rubbish segment. Almost entirely consisted either of mistakes made by student pilots, no doubt under full supervision of an instructor anyway, or simply the result of bad quality transmissions due to equipment or what have you.
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Youtube link is giving "This video is unavailable." so not sure if that means if it is either not loaded or gone but just a heads up it's not on for me... Am interested to see what TT said bout it all, thier report on toxic oils last night was bit different as well.