Duration of NZ ATPL
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: united arab emirates
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Duration of NZ ATPL
Hi All
Need a little help. Can anyone please confirm how long the NZ ATPL Licence is valid for. What I mean is , lets say you do not do a BFR ( flying for an overseas carrier). I understand the requirement for a medical and a BFR to use the licence. But should one not do a BFR then ,
1) would the need arise to write the Air Law exam after 5 years or would one just have to " activate" the licence again by doing a BFR and a medical.
Just a little confused as CAR 61:15 says
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) , the Director shall grant licences granted under this part for the lifetime of the holder
(b) The Director may , where he or she considers it necessary , issue a temporary licence or rating.
But then CAR 61:17 goes on to say
(a) bla bla
(b) bla bla
(c) A pass in a written subject is valid for a lifetime of the holder except for written passes in Air Law which are valid for 5 years.
Does CAR 61:17 only refer to the exams before the issue of the licence ?
Appreciate the feedback . Just curious what all the Kiwi,s at CX , eK , SQ etc do to keep their NZ licence current or " sleeping"
Many thanks.
Need a little help. Can anyone please confirm how long the NZ ATPL Licence is valid for. What I mean is , lets say you do not do a BFR ( flying for an overseas carrier). I understand the requirement for a medical and a BFR to use the licence. But should one not do a BFR then ,
1) would the need arise to write the Air Law exam after 5 years or would one just have to " activate" the licence again by doing a BFR and a medical.
Just a little confused as CAR 61:15 says
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) , the Director shall grant licences granted under this part for the lifetime of the holder
(b) The Director may , where he or she considers it necessary , issue a temporary licence or rating.
But then CAR 61:17 goes on to say
(a) bla bla
(b) bla bla
(c) A pass in a written subject is valid for a lifetime of the holder except for written passes in Air Law which are valid for 5 years.
Does CAR 61:17 only refer to the exams before the issue of the licence ?
Appreciate the feedback . Just curious what all the Kiwi,s at CX , eK , SQ etc do to keep their NZ licence current or " sleeping"
Many thanks.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In the Auzzie outback
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe the written exams work like this:
I believe once you pass the flight test and get issued ATPL Licence you have it for a lifetime subject to BFR's just like a CPL.
I'm 2 exams away from getting my fATPL so this stuff is only what I know so far, I could be wrong...
The written examination credit comes into effect when all the written examinations have been passed in the qualifying period of 3 years and the written examination credit is valid for 10 years from the date of issue, except for aviation law where the examination pass must not be more than 5 years old as detailed in rule 61.17(c) and (d).
I believe once you pass the flight test and get issued ATPL Licence you have it for a lifetime subject to BFR's just like a CPL.
I'm 2 exams away from getting my fATPL so this stuff is only what I know so far, I could be wrong...
Join Date: May 2001
Location: NZ
Posts: 656
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe if you have not used your license for 5yrs you need to sit the law exam again as well as a BFR to re-activate it, whereas if you do at least 1 BFR every 5 yrs then you'll not have to sit Law again.
In other words, the only time you'll need to sit Law again is
a) the appropriate license has not been issued within 5yrs of sitting AND no
exam credit has been issued (i.e all 7 papers have not been sat/passed)
b) the appropriate license has not been issued within 10yrs of the exam credit
being issued
c) If you have not used your NZ license for 5yrs or more.
The reference to having a lifetime license is made only if minimum currency is maintained, i.e a BFR in the last 5yrs.
Hope that is as clear as mud.
S2K
In other words, the only time you'll need to sit Law again is
a) the appropriate license has not been issued within 5yrs of sitting AND no
exam credit has been issued (i.e all 7 papers have not been sat/passed)
b) the appropriate license has not been issued within 10yrs of the exam credit
being issued
c) If you have not used your NZ license for 5yrs or more.
The reference to having a lifetime license is made only if minimum currency is maintained, i.e a BFR in the last 5yrs.
Hope that is as clear as mud.
S2K
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NZ
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fourgolds
fourgolds
Every NZ licence is issued as a lifetime licence. However, this does not mean that you can exercise the priviledges of that licence for a lifetime without keeping it "current".
I suggest you look at the relevant CAR and Advisory Circular (from memory ac 61 1.7 for ATPL's) for what you need to keep it current.
A BFR is really only there for those who are not flying professionally, as there is no longer a requirement to sit a BFR if you are completing OCA's, Instructor Checks etc etc every 6 - 12 months. i.e It is highly unlikely you would complete a BFR for an ATPL in NZ as if you needed to exercise the priviledges of that licence you would for sure be completing some form of OCA or the like before doing so.
So back to your original question, if you hold a NZ ATPL and don't plan to use it there is really no need to do anything, it will not expire so to speak. If you wish to return to NZ and hire a 172 and use PPL priviledges you will need a medical and BFR (and if its been longer than 5 years a resit Law) . Then your PPL is current. If you return to NZ and want to fly professionally then read paragraph 3 (and again if you hadn't used your ATPL for 5 years you would need to resit law)
Hope this helps - again I would check the CAR's and AC to be sure.
Every NZ licence is issued as a lifetime licence. However, this does not mean that you can exercise the priviledges of that licence for a lifetime without keeping it "current".
I suggest you look at the relevant CAR and Advisory Circular (from memory ac 61 1.7 for ATPL's) for what you need to keep it current.
A BFR is really only there for those who are not flying professionally, as there is no longer a requirement to sit a BFR if you are completing OCA's, Instructor Checks etc etc every 6 - 12 months. i.e It is highly unlikely you would complete a BFR for an ATPL in NZ as if you needed to exercise the priviledges of that licence you would for sure be completing some form of OCA or the like before doing so.
So back to your original question, if you hold a NZ ATPL and don't plan to use it there is really no need to do anything, it will not expire so to speak. If you wish to return to NZ and hire a 172 and use PPL priviledges you will need a medical and BFR (and if its been longer than 5 years a resit Law) . Then your PPL is current. If you return to NZ and want to fly professionally then read paragraph 3 (and again if you hadn't used your ATPL for 5 years you would need to resit law)
Hope this helps - again I would check the CAR's and AC to be sure.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Keeping an ATPL current:
61.37
(i) If the holder of a pilot licence issued in accordance with this Part has not met the requirements of rule 61.39 [BFR or regular competency checks] for a period of 5 years or more, the privileges of that pilot licence may not be exercised again unless,—
This doesn't contradict your lifetime license Waren09, it's just how to keep it current. Not like in Europe, where your entire license has to be reissued regularly (a paperwork exercise used to gather fees).
Validity of ATPL theory passes (there is no such thing as a frozen ATPL in NZ, because the ATPL is only granted following the passing of a flight test just like any other license):
61.17
All ATPL exams must be passed within 3 years from first pass to final pass (the 'qualifying period'). Once the final pass has been achieved, the 'credit' is then valid for ten years.
As Massey058 has said for those with an existing exam credit under the old rules.
Hope this helps,
O8
Edited because I crossed the previous post - note the only correction to Donkey's very informative post - the ATPL can cease to be current / valid, but you don't need to sit law to get it current again.
61.37
(i) If the holder of a pilot licence issued in accordance with this Part has not met the requirements of rule 61.39 [BFR or regular competency checks] for a period of 5 years or more, the privileges of that pilot licence may not be exercised again unless,—
(1) the holder of the pilot licence passes an approved air law examination and meets the appropriate currency requirements of the licence (except if the holder has a current pilot licence for a different category of aircraft and meets the requirements of rule 61.39(a) [BFR] for that category); or
(2) in the case of an airline transport pilot licence, the holder of the pilot licence completes the appropriate operational competency checks required in Part 119, and Part 121 or 125 [6-monthly airline competency checks].
So unless your employer's competency checks satisfy NZ Part 121, your ATPL will cease to be current two years after your last check / BFR. The 5-year law resit is not required for ATPL holders - you just have to pass the operational competency check again. Sounds very sensible.(2) in the case of an airline transport pilot licence, the holder of the pilot licence completes the appropriate operational competency checks required in Part 119, and Part 121 or 125 [6-monthly airline competency checks].
This doesn't contradict your lifetime license Waren09, it's just how to keep it current. Not like in Europe, where your entire license has to be reissued regularly (a paperwork exercise used to gather fees).
Validity of ATPL theory passes (there is no such thing as a frozen ATPL in NZ, because the ATPL is only granted following the passing of a flight test just like any other license):
61.17
All ATPL exams must be passed within 3 years from first pass to final pass (the 'qualifying period'). Once the final pass has been achieved, the 'credit' is then valid for ten years.
As Massey058 has said for those with an existing exam credit under the old rules.
Hope this helps,
O8
Edited because I crossed the previous post - note the only correction to Donkey's very informative post - the ATPL can cease to be current / valid, but you don't need to sit law to get it current again.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: united arab emirates
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks folks. Does anyone know if submitting the 6 monthly PC checks ( part 121 operator)from your overseas employer will keep the licence current . ( even if you cannot exercise the privelage of the licence in NZ). That by doing this you somehow negate the need for the ATPL Air Law exam.
I guess I will have to give them a call and see .
I guess I will have to give them a call and see .
No problem as long as the person running your competency check holds a current CAA Flight Examiner qualification and the check is part of a NZ part 121 operation on under a NZ part 141 training operation.
The reality is it is not a problem for an ATPL if you want to fly for fun then it is just a BFR. If you want to fly for cash then you need a 121.607 anyway.
The reality is it is not a problem for an ATPL if you want to fly for fun then it is just a BFR. If you want to fly for cash then you need a 121.607 anyway.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: united arab emirates
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks to all.
So just to confirm. If I do a BFR ( say on a cessna in NZ ) before the expirey of 5 years I get to keep my ATPL without the need to write Air Law. This maintains the ATPL Status and allows me to fly for fun in NZ, however should I require to work on my NZ ATPL ( part 121) then I would need a 121 checkride.
Seems clear as mud.
Good luck to all in pursuit of it !
So just to confirm. If I do a BFR ( say on a cessna in NZ ) before the expirey of 5 years I get to keep my ATPL without the need to write Air Law. This maintains the ATPL Status and allows me to fly for fun in NZ, however should I require to work on my NZ ATPL ( part 121) then I would need a 121 checkride.
Seems clear as mud.
Good luck to all in pursuit of it !
I held a NZ ATPL and current Australian ATPL. When it was obvious I was never going to get a job in NZ I didn't renew the NZ medical and didn't send in regular updates re I/F currency etc. However I kept my Australian ATPL current - instrument rating etc.
Job later came up in NZ so I applied for the Trans Tasman Agreement option and sent in the paperwork to NZ CAA.
They replied I could not have a NZ ATPL via the TTA because I already had a permanent NZ ATPL. But, as the NZ ATPL was expired beyond five years I was up for a NZ Air law, Medicals , prof check and instrument rating. Big bucks
So I said no problem - just cancel my old NZ ATPL and give me a new one based upon the Trans Tasman Agreement. No way said the NZ CAA - you cannot have two NZ ATPL's.
I don't bloody want two ATPL sez I - I just want one to get a job. Stiff cheddar they said - there is an anomaly in the system and we can't help you mate. Either come to NZ and start all over with medicals, instrument rating test and prof check to regain a NZ ATPL or forget the whole thing. By then the job had gone so I gave up the idea. Some anomaly...
Job later came up in NZ so I applied for the Trans Tasman Agreement option and sent in the paperwork to NZ CAA.
They replied I could not have a NZ ATPL via the TTA because I already had a permanent NZ ATPL. But, as the NZ ATPL was expired beyond five years I was up for a NZ Air law, Medicals , prof check and instrument rating. Big bucks
So I said no problem - just cancel my old NZ ATPL and give me a new one based upon the Trans Tasman Agreement. No way said the NZ CAA - you cannot have two NZ ATPL's.
I don't bloody want two ATPL sez I - I just want one to get a job. Stiff cheddar they said - there is an anomaly in the system and we can't help you mate. Either come to NZ and start all over with medicals, instrument rating test and prof check to regain a NZ ATPL or forget the whole thing. By then the job had gone so I gave up the idea. Some anomaly...
