Private Hire: VDO vs Airswitch
I've seen one or two aircraft that had the meter start ticking over when the master switch was turned on, most though are on engine start. From my experience, whether you get charged on airswitch (higher hourly rate) or the engine start-stop time, the end result will usually be pretty much the same. Operators have figured out the pros and cons over the years to work out what is fair and competitive.
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Yeah it's crap you have to pay for time that you're not in the air, but don't forget you're logging these hours anyway (VDO). I think the definition in the logbook is something like, "From the time the aircraft moves under it's own power till the time it ceases to do so, chock to chock, block to block etc etc'.
But..
Even though you've started up and taken 6 minutes to start to taxi, you log .1 dont ya? At least that way you pay for the time you log, simple.
But..
Even though you've started up and taken 6 minutes to start to taxi, you log .1 dont ya? At least that way you pay for the time you log, simple.
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The only time you'd ever want to use VDO time would be if you were hour building.
Those that have a licence and don't "need" the hours would always go for airswitch I available. For a qualified non-hour-builder on private hire, both parties would benefit from airswitch.
I have noticed moreso in twins, the tendency to charge for airswitch versus singles.
What does the Dr do?
Those that have a licence and don't "need" the hours would always go for airswitch I available. For a qualified non-hour-builder on private hire, both parties would benefit from airswitch.
I have noticed moreso in twins, the tendency to charge for airswitch versus singles.
What does the Dr do?
Who says there is any correlation between
a) the hours the aircraft flies,
b) the hours the operator charges you for, and
c) the hours you log?
Flight time, is take-off to landing, and goes on the MR.
"VDO" / "Hobbs" etc time is what you pay for,
Moving under your own power is what goes in your logbook.
a) the hours the aircraft flies,
b) the hours the operator charges you for, and
c) the hours you log?
Flight time, is take-off to landing, and goes on the MR.
"VDO" / "Hobbs" etc time is what you pay for,
Moving under your own power is what goes in your logbook.
MR time must be the time the aircraft spends in the air. Tacho time is unlikely to be correct, and if it is, its coincidental. Airswitch time can be fine - as long as it records correctly.
The best one to record on the MR is the actual time elapsed between takeoff and landing. Just make a note of the time at takeoff and at landing.
The best one to record on the MR is the actual time elapsed between takeoff and landing. Just make a note of the time at takeoff and at landing.
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Are you serious?
You've have obviously never owned an aircraft. So you expect a hirer to record with his watch how long he spends in the air and he then records that in the MR? What if he's missing half an hour or whatever? I don't think so and I cant see that even being legal, otherwise people would just write less hours in to save on maintenance costs and you would end up with a large discrepancy between tacho and airswitch.
You've have obviously never owned an aircraft. So you expect a hirer to record with his watch how long he spends in the air and he then records that in the MR? What if he's missing half an hour or whatever? I don't think so and I cant see that even being legal, otherwise people would just write less hours in to save on maintenance costs and you would end up with a large discrepancy between tacho and airswitch.
My understanding (and please correct if I am wrong) is either of the 3 times can be used of maintenance depending on what is approved for the aircrafts system of maintenance?
Eg; My Piper's MR is on VDO, my Cessna is on FS and my Beech is on Tacho. All would take into account the differences this time recording creates.
Eg; My Piper's MR is on VDO, my Cessna is on FS and my Beech is on Tacho. All would take into account the differences this time recording creates.
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what is required
Flight time for the airframe (maintenance requirement) is wheels off to wheels on (CAR 1988). The reg also states (may not still be current), that U/C limit switches are acceptable to control timer. Any other system which will increase the recorded total will of course increase the maintenance per hour flown over the life of the aircraft.
As for tacho versus oil Px switch, the recording tacho generally only used on singles, will only record accurately at specified RPM, generally 2300, so there will be a discrepancy between tacho and oil Px for an engine that does longer ground based and low power setting operation.
Oh, of course, there is no reg that denies the option to do more frequent maintenance, or to record "short" hours, as recorded by any of the approved recording systems. You just cant do less maintenance than that based on recorded flight time - which is what goes on the MR.
As for tacho versus oil Px switch, the recording tacho generally only used on singles, will only record accurately at specified RPM, generally 2300, so there will be a discrepancy between tacho and oil Px for an engine that does longer ground based and low power setting operation.
Oh, of course, there is no reg that denies the option to do more frequent maintenance, or to record "short" hours, as recorded by any of the approved recording systems. You just cant do less maintenance than that based on recorded flight time - which is what goes on the MR.
Last edited by titenup; 8th Jan 2011 at 12:07. Reason: add last para
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I don't really like this, first taste of it was at Redcliffe Aero Club. There was a difference of .4 between the tacho and the hobs on a flight just over an hour. When you are flying a C310 at nearly $700 per hr it really starts to hit the pocket. Since then I have never gone back.
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My recent experience
Just did a private hire at YBAF. Tacho was 1.5, A/S was 1.2. I'm charged A/S. I ramped out at 15:56, ramped in at 1726. Did normal start, taxi to far end and run-up. Then some PSALs etc in the Eastern Training area. Normal cruise there and back, not above 2500. Did 6 circuits before calling it a day. One hour of circuits is normally 1.0 Tacho and 0.7 A/S.
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Recording of times
During my civil aviation employment, as distinct from military aviation, I was credited for the elapsed time from 1 hour prior to push back to 10 minutes after on blocks. The aircraft flight log, as recorded by the FE, showed elapsed time from start of push-back to on blocks. The pax paid for whatever class or discounted ticket they held.
The point is it all depends on the provider of the aircraft how much the hirer pays. The Aero Club to which I belong has used VDO meter readings as the basis for hire charges whether is was private hire or dual under instruction or Bi-ennial review. Joyflights were fixed at a minimum charge. Charters vary with type. The Member v's Non-Member rates are different. Maintenance is/was done on either AirSwitch (vane actuated) or Tacho time depending on the aircraft.
The point is it all depends on the provider of the aircraft how much the hirer pays. The Aero Club to which I belong has used VDO meter readings as the basis for hire charges whether is was private hire or dual under instruction or Bi-ennial review. Joyflights were fixed at a minimum charge. Charters vary with type. The Member v's Non-Member rates are different. Maintenance is/was done on either AirSwitch (vane actuated) or Tacho time depending on the aircraft.
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Credit hours, not LOGGED hours
No mate. Salary based on xx hours per month. Any Extra hours attracted overtime payment. Hours logged were block to block.
Last edited by Old Fella; 26th Sep 2014 at 01:36.
What's changed?
30 years ago all singles were charged on VDO activated by Oil pressure ( as mentioned above ) some bigger singles and Twins were on Tacho and others even bigger were Air Switch.
Why the sudden grief? Nothing's changed has it?
30 years ago all singles were charged on VDO activated by Oil pressure ( as mentioned above ) some bigger singles and Twins were on Tacho and others even bigger were Air Switch.
Why the sudden grief? Nothing's changed has it?
