Thoughts on training Jandakot
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Thoughts on training Jandakot
Gday all,
Currently in the process of doing research into training at Jandakot to move up from GFPT to PPL and would love to hear what advice people might have in regards to good schools, pros/cons etc. Im all ears, just looking to hear anyone's thoughts.
Thanks in advance,
Mick
Currently in the process of doing research into training at Jandakot to move up from GFPT to PPL and would love to hear what advice people might have in regards to good schools, pros/cons etc. Im all ears, just looking to hear anyone's thoughts.
Thanks in advance,
Mick
JT is a bloody busy! so If you can deal with the traffic there you can fly just about anywhere.
Downside is you pay off the VDO so if you spend 20 mins on the ground you are charged at the hourly rate.
I would head somewhere like Shine aviation in Geraldton, or the bunbury aero club. You will get through your training cheaper/faster and may score a job out of it when you are finished as a charter pilot.
the usual suspects at JT are all much of a muchness, really depends on if you like your instructor or not at the end of the day.
Downside is you pay off the VDO so if you spend 20 mins on the ground you are charged at the hourly rate.
I would head somewhere like Shine aviation in Geraldton, or the bunbury aero club. You will get through your training cheaper/faster and may score a job out of it when you are finished as a charter pilot.
the usual suspects at JT are all much of a muchness, really depends on if you like your instructor or not at the end of the day.
Seasonally Adjusted
What about Murray Field, would that solve the traffic issues?
I don't know much about it myself, apart from the fact that it is a RACWA outpost.
I don't know much about it myself, apart from the fact that it is a RACWA outpost.
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Gents, thanks alot for the replies. That is exactly the sort of information I'm looking for.
Is it possible to do all training from GFPT to PPl from Murray Field?
Love to hear from others.
Mick
Is it possible to do all training from GFPT to PPl from Murray Field?
Love to hear from others.
Mick
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GDay again,
Another question - how lmany hours might one expect to take to move from GFPT to PPL? I've had some quotes suggesting 28 hours, some suggesting 15 hours....
Thanks again,
Mick
Another question - how lmany hours might one expect to take to move from GFPT to PPL? I've had some quotes suggesting 28 hours, some suggesting 15 hours....
Thanks again,
Mick
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well just think, i did 7 navexs after GFPT, plus a couple of Sup-NAVs coz of somethings i didnt get the first time. Got GFPT around 30 hours and then PPL flight test at around 65 hours, but take out the occasional pax carrying trips buzzing round in the Training Area, so around 30 hours.
So depending on how well you learn things and the quality of instructing. Unfortunately, my instructor was not up to standard which i only found out during my flight test which i had to redo.
So depending on how well you learn things and the quality of instructing. Unfortunately, my instructor was not up to standard which i only found out during my flight test which i had to redo.
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The best research you can do is to go down to Jandakot and have a look at all the schools. Start up at RACWA and work your way down to Air Australia, Minovation, Jandakot Flight Centre, The Aeroplane Company and Advanced Cockpit Flight Training. (This is the postion of each school on the strip NOT a list of best to worst ect.) The best advise i can give is to see which one suits you the best. Ultimately they all offer good flying training. But if you still cant decide I would highly recommend Minovation. I also hear ACFT have a good thing going.
Last edited by aerodude; 19th Apr 2009 at 02:23.
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Have you had a look at Advanced cockpit flight training, www.acft.com.au, they are down near singapore flying college at Jandakot. Jeremy Miller and Trent Robinson run the show down there and they charge off air switch. They fly decathlons and have a near new 182.
Worth a look.
Worth a look.
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Thanks for the ongoing advice. All very useful.
As suggested, visiting each school at Jandakot is the best approach.
Anyone have anymore to say about Bunbury? Actually quite interested in heading down to Bunbury after I've passed the PPL theory exam, staying at the backpackers for a week or so and doing a navigation excercise each day til finished (learning by by saturation etc).
Love to hear some thoughts on this (madness or a decent idea?).
Thanks again,
Mick
As suggested, visiting each school at Jandakot is the best approach.
Anyone have anymore to say about Bunbury? Actually quite interested in heading down to Bunbury after I've passed the PPL theory exam, staying at the backpackers for a week or so and doing a navigation excercise each day til finished (learning by by saturation etc).
Love to hear some thoughts on this (madness or a decent idea?).
Thanks again,
Mick
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Love to hear some thoughts on this (madness or a decent idea?).
However if the majority of your flying is going tho be around the Perth area, it may pay to learn here. More exposure to CTA and the likes.
Northam Aero Club...??
Or, you could try Northam - its closer to Perth than is Bunbury - only an hour's drive.
No delays - usually - you take off and you are 'on your way' - with close proximity to CTA for that part of the nav experience.
And close navaids for that part of the experience as well - CKL, CUN, PIY PH etc
Cheers
No delays - usually - you take off and you are 'on your way' - with close proximity to CTA for that part of the nav experience.
And close navaids for that part of the experience as well - CKL, CUN, PIY PH etc
Cheers
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I trained at JT with RACWA (up to my PPL) and loved it. Had a great instructor (Trent Robinson - who by the looks of an earlier post has moved to ACFT now). I found the busy environment a good thing, not a bad thing (yes, slightly more VDO time, but a great learning experience). We flew out to Murrayfield a fair bit for circuits when we needed some 'quiet' time, but learning GAAP procedures proved invaluable to me now that I transit BK and CN a lot. I would highly recommend the place!
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Came across this thread while studying in Melbourne for my Low-level aerobatics approval and couldn't help throwing in my .5c.
I've tried just about every school on the strip so can give you my thoughts:
RACWA (I did ab-initio through to PPL with them)
Pros:
Largest organisation on the strip
Heaps of aircraft and instructors
Has a bar and cafe upstairs
Runs club functions, competitions, etc
Tigermoths and Chipmunks, if you're into that kind of thing
If you're an Air Force Cadet or Instructor you can get uber cheap flying through them
They "Own" Murrayfield so you can get free landings
Cons:
HOWEVER The VDO time it takes to fly to Murrayfield and back cancels that advantage out, unless you drive to YMUL and fly out of there.
Requires membership fee, which only just makes their prices comparable to everyone else on the strip
They constantly change aircraft and instructors when you book
Heaps of extra rules for you above and beyond what CASA require
Heaps of young instructors who have gone straight through their training and into instructing, with little or no commercial experience
Old aircraft fleet, with no sign of new toys and technology on the horizon
They did have a mega complicated pricing structure, not sure what its like now
Can be an impersonal atmoshere...theres too many instructors to get to know well, and they all hang out out back in the instructors area
Their aerobatics endorsement was not fully CAO compliant, which I discovered when starting my low-level training. EVERYONE WHOS INTO AEROS CHECK THIS! They didn't cover slow rolls and rolls off the top.
Air Australia
Pros:
Cool paint jobs on their 152s and Robin
Has the Robin 2160...a relatively decent aerobatic aircraft
Good prices
Large open American-FBO style building, with posters and all sorts of flying paraphenalia around the place.
Smaller organisation so you get to know everyone there
Cons:
Smaller organisation and not as many aircraft
The Robin is very popular so need to book well in advance for weekends
Jandakot Flight Centre
I've only flown with them once to get some time up in a 210, and that was years ago. But it sounds like the business has had a lot more downs than ups in the last few years. The main advantage I saw way back then was if you wanted to further your training past CPL they had some large charter aircraft you could train in to get 210/twin/pressurisation ratings etc. I think they're using the Aussie designed, foreign built Eagle 150 for ab-initio - I wouldnt mind giving it a go but apparently its not cleared for aeros or spinning.
The Aeroplane Company (who I'm currently doing CPL training with)
Pros:
Smaller company, easier to get to know all their instructors
Flashy new Diamond Aircraft (both 2 and 4 seat)
They're modern, composite aircraft with joysticks, fuel injection, GPS, etc
DA40's have full G1000 glass cockpit. Amazing stuff!
The maintenence hangar is right next to classrooms. You can take 2 steps out of a classroom and see whats going on.
They have a CAP10 - which is a superb aerobatic and tailwheel aircraft
Cons
If you're into aeros they only have the 152 and a 150.
The CAP10 has been without an engine for almost a year and a half
Care must be taken when flying the CAP to not Over-G. There's an AD out that limits G because of some wings being snapped overseas.
While the DA20s are fun and cheap to fly, the DA40s are now rather expensive
The company has had some major issues with Jandakot Airport Holdings. It has unfortunately cost them business
ACFT/Attitude Aerobatics
Pros:
Smaller organisation so more personable, etc
Have Super Decathlons, which are a good aerobatic and tailwheel trainer
Decathlons get charged by Airswitch but not sure about their other aircraft
Have access to ECUs newish DA20 and 172 I think it is? 177 as well?
The only organisation that take their aerobatics seriously, and can take you further than a loop and a roll
Cool motion simulator
Cons:
Brand new company, still working on building up their base and profile
The Super Decathlon also has structural issues with high-G (especially rolling G). Even though its cleared for them in the manual, repeated high-G and snap rolls will bust fuel tanks and wing internals - Snap Rolls are thus banned at ACFT and at most other operators in the world. Thus at the moment, if you're into aerobatics you won't be able to get past Sportsman level. Fine for 90% of aero pilots, but if you want to go further you'll need to wait until they buy a Pitts 2 seater or let you fly that Extra 300.
Minovation:
I've never flown with them - even though I've heard relatively good things about their training, their entire fleet from memory are Pipers. Personally I see that as a con - I'm not the biggest fan of either Piper aircaft or the Piper corporation.
I think thats about it. Every company has its pro's and con's - it all depends on personal preference. You have to work out for yourself:
- What kind of aircraft you want to fly (Cessnas, Pipers, Diamonds, Old or New, tailwheel, aerobatic,etc)
- How often you want to fly
- If you want to go through to CPL
- If you want to get keen on aerobatics
- Whether you're in it for fun, private hire, or career.
Oh in terms of hours required, it all depends on how you yourself go.
There are CASA minimums but you don't stand a chance of reaching them. I did a cadet course at Cunderdin and soloed after 7.8hrs because there was no-one else in the sky and you didnt have to transit to a training area. When I got to YPJT I was overwhelmed with traffic and procedures, and spent another 6 hours or so in circuits.
Study hard. Read everything you can on the subject. "Chair Fly" (sit in a chair and visualise what you'll do for every stage of the flight - checks, manouevers, emergency procedures). Fly flight-simulators at home. Prepare your maps and charts and plans well for your navigation exercices. The more preparation and time you put in on the ground, the less dollars you'll spend in the air. Even if you think you're a natural pilot, don't become blaze and slack off. I got a couple of rude shocks during my training, and wasted money because I didn't put in 101%.
The first 40 odd hours of hard flying training and all the study and exams that go with it may not be a lot of fun, but its more than made up for when you can finally take passengers out to the training area and scare the bejeezus out of them more than makes up for it. Oh and being able to tell your mates that you flew into Rotto or Margaret River for lunch is pretty awesome too!
Hope that helps!
I've tried just about every school on the strip so can give you my thoughts:
RACWA (I did ab-initio through to PPL with them)
Pros:
Largest organisation on the strip
Heaps of aircraft and instructors
Has a bar and cafe upstairs
Runs club functions, competitions, etc
Tigermoths and Chipmunks, if you're into that kind of thing
If you're an Air Force Cadet or Instructor you can get uber cheap flying through them
They "Own" Murrayfield so you can get free landings
Cons:
HOWEVER The VDO time it takes to fly to Murrayfield and back cancels that advantage out, unless you drive to YMUL and fly out of there.
Requires membership fee, which only just makes their prices comparable to everyone else on the strip
They constantly change aircraft and instructors when you book
Heaps of extra rules for you above and beyond what CASA require
Heaps of young instructors who have gone straight through their training and into instructing, with little or no commercial experience
Old aircraft fleet, with no sign of new toys and technology on the horizon
They did have a mega complicated pricing structure, not sure what its like now
Can be an impersonal atmoshere...theres too many instructors to get to know well, and they all hang out out back in the instructors area
Their aerobatics endorsement was not fully CAO compliant, which I discovered when starting my low-level training. EVERYONE WHOS INTO AEROS CHECK THIS! They didn't cover slow rolls and rolls off the top.
Air Australia
Pros:
Cool paint jobs on their 152s and Robin
Has the Robin 2160...a relatively decent aerobatic aircraft
Good prices
Large open American-FBO style building, with posters and all sorts of flying paraphenalia around the place.
Smaller organisation so you get to know everyone there
Cons:
Smaller organisation and not as many aircraft
The Robin is very popular so need to book well in advance for weekends
Jandakot Flight Centre
I've only flown with them once to get some time up in a 210, and that was years ago. But it sounds like the business has had a lot more downs than ups in the last few years. The main advantage I saw way back then was if you wanted to further your training past CPL they had some large charter aircraft you could train in to get 210/twin/pressurisation ratings etc. I think they're using the Aussie designed, foreign built Eagle 150 for ab-initio - I wouldnt mind giving it a go but apparently its not cleared for aeros or spinning.
The Aeroplane Company (who I'm currently doing CPL training with)
Pros:
Smaller company, easier to get to know all their instructors
Flashy new Diamond Aircraft (both 2 and 4 seat)
They're modern, composite aircraft with joysticks, fuel injection, GPS, etc
DA40's have full G1000 glass cockpit. Amazing stuff!
The maintenence hangar is right next to classrooms. You can take 2 steps out of a classroom and see whats going on.
They have a CAP10 - which is a superb aerobatic and tailwheel aircraft
Cons
If you're into aeros they only have the 152 and a 150.
The CAP10 has been without an engine for almost a year and a half
Care must be taken when flying the CAP to not Over-G. There's an AD out that limits G because of some wings being snapped overseas.
While the DA20s are fun and cheap to fly, the DA40s are now rather expensive
The company has had some major issues with Jandakot Airport Holdings. It has unfortunately cost them business
ACFT/Attitude Aerobatics
Pros:
Smaller organisation so more personable, etc
Have Super Decathlons, which are a good aerobatic and tailwheel trainer
Decathlons get charged by Airswitch but not sure about their other aircraft
Have access to ECUs newish DA20 and 172 I think it is? 177 as well?
The only organisation that take their aerobatics seriously, and can take you further than a loop and a roll
Cool motion simulator
Cons:
Brand new company, still working on building up their base and profile
The Super Decathlon also has structural issues with high-G (especially rolling G). Even though its cleared for them in the manual, repeated high-G and snap rolls will bust fuel tanks and wing internals - Snap Rolls are thus banned at ACFT and at most other operators in the world. Thus at the moment, if you're into aerobatics you won't be able to get past Sportsman level. Fine for 90% of aero pilots, but if you want to go further you'll need to wait until they buy a Pitts 2 seater or let you fly that Extra 300.
Minovation:
I've never flown with them - even though I've heard relatively good things about their training, their entire fleet from memory are Pipers. Personally I see that as a con - I'm not the biggest fan of either Piper aircaft or the Piper corporation.
I think thats about it. Every company has its pro's and con's - it all depends on personal preference. You have to work out for yourself:
- What kind of aircraft you want to fly (Cessnas, Pipers, Diamonds, Old or New, tailwheel, aerobatic,etc)
- How often you want to fly
- If you want to go through to CPL
- If you want to get keen on aerobatics
- Whether you're in it for fun, private hire, or career.
Oh in terms of hours required, it all depends on how you yourself go.
There are CASA minimums but you don't stand a chance of reaching them. I did a cadet course at Cunderdin and soloed after 7.8hrs because there was no-one else in the sky and you didnt have to transit to a training area. When I got to YPJT I was overwhelmed with traffic and procedures, and spent another 6 hours or so in circuits.
Study hard. Read everything you can on the subject. "Chair Fly" (sit in a chair and visualise what you'll do for every stage of the flight - checks, manouevers, emergency procedures). Fly flight-simulators at home. Prepare your maps and charts and plans well for your navigation exercices. The more preparation and time you put in on the ground, the less dollars you'll spend in the air. Even if you think you're a natural pilot, don't become blaze and slack off. I got a couple of rude shocks during my training, and wasted money because I didn't put in 101%.
The first 40 odd hours of hard flying training and all the study and exams that go with it may not be a lot of fun, but its more than made up for when you can finally take passengers out to the training area and scare the bejeezus out of them more than makes up for it. Oh and being able to tell your mates that you flew into Rotto or Margaret River for lunch is pretty awesome too!
Hope that helps!
