10 ways to improve Avalon Airshow
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Peter Fanelli "hold it somewhere else"
@ 28% advantage in the dollar then Wanaka in 12 months has to be an option ........ we are going 
It has been different and much better than Avalon for years and you can fly in
It has been different and much better than Avalon for years and you can fly in
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A few requests:
1) Provide courtesy shuttle to the front ticket office/entrance for patrons parked 20-30min walk away;
2)have a general admission 3 day pass ( presold tickets generating more cashflow)
3)more shelter 'spots' available with seats;
4)more toilets!!
; AND
5)if point (2) won't work then sell the 3 day gold pass at an affordable price-they went for $160 on Friday due to poor sales and were conveniently sold-out by late friday arvo.
1) Provide courtesy shuttle to the front ticket office/entrance for patrons parked 20-30min walk away;
2)have a general admission 3 day pass ( presold tickets generating more cashflow)
3)more shelter 'spots' available with seats;
4)more toilets!!
; AND5)if point (2) won't work then sell the 3 day gold pass at an affordable price-they went for $160 on Friday due to poor sales and were conveniently sold-out by late friday arvo.
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aulglarse, well done, at last some constructive criticism, or at least comments that could well help the show improve. I agree withh all your points completely.
Avalon may not be the best, but it's the biggest and best we've got, at least for the time being.
As for the RAAF running the show, ahem, this would not in any way garantee an improvement I can asssure you. The best military run airshow I have come across was AeroIndia, run by the IAF in a highly professional manner, but encumbered by masses of tedious paperwork at the start and finish of the event, and boy, if they had some of those Sukhoi's and Mig 35's at Avalon I bet there would be fewer complaints, Ricardo does a great job in the super hornet, but it is nice to see the other side of the fence as well.
HD
Avalon may not be the best, but it's the biggest and best we've got, at least for the time being.
As for the RAAF running the show, ahem, this would not in any way garantee an improvement I can asssure you. The best military run airshow I have come across was AeroIndia, run by the IAF in a highly professional manner, but encumbered by masses of tedious paperwork at the start and finish of the event, and boy, if they had some of those Sukhoi's and Mig 35's at Avalon I bet there would be fewer complaints, Ricardo does a great job in the super hornet, but it is nice to see the other side of the fence as well.
HD
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My own approach these days is to not go anywhere near the airshow itself . . . I have done it all from full on corporate packages to being one of Joe Public.
Instead I now park somewhere near the intersection of the Old Melbourne Road and Beach Road at about the time of one the flying displays with my Icom transceiver tuned to the ‘Ringmaster’ and enjoy the show from the comfort of my own (convertible) car – and my own lunch and refreshments.
That way I miss the crowds and the ‘babble’ of the commentators on the PA . . . and the Ringmaster’s no nonsense style is always impressive. Most years I end up with a crowd around my car (or radio) as they too like to hear what is really happening.
Cheers
Pedota
Instead I now park somewhere near the intersection of the Old Melbourne Road and Beach Road at about the time of one the flying displays with my Icom transceiver tuned to the ‘Ringmaster’ and enjoy the show from the comfort of my own (convertible) car – and my own lunch and refreshments.
That way I miss the crowds and the ‘babble’ of the commentators on the PA . . . and the Ringmaster’s no nonsense style is always impressive. Most years I end up with a crowd around my car (or radio) as they too like to hear what is really happening.
Cheers
Pedota
Jeff Watson as announcer
Make peace with Warbirds movment
Use an aerodrome with the display line down sun from the crowd line for the main part of the show.
Let the military set up their own pyro displays...(They do do a better job! I mean who else is going to spend the time wiring 100m strings of detonators on delays for multiple runs of simulated ground attacks)
Charge a reasonable entry fee
Have a bit of flair in setting up conscessions. Food area including somewhere to sit and eat the food you just charged a small ransom for. Bit of shade/shelter included.
Hold out the olive branch to the regional AirForces.
The Russians have aircraft they want to sell and demonstrate too
Sounds a small thing but soooo simple. If operationally possible, get a grader in a couple of months prior to first show and grade the spectator area so there is an even grade slope toward the movment area. The spectators will love it! 1m in 100m fall would be sufficient
And lastly GET RID OF THE INSPIRATIONAL MUSIC...sounds like a medal presenation at the Olympics.
Make peace with Warbirds movment
Use an aerodrome with the display line down sun from the crowd line for the main part of the show.
Let the military set up their own pyro displays...(They do do a better job! I mean who else is going to spend the time wiring 100m strings of detonators on delays for multiple runs of simulated ground attacks)
Charge a reasonable entry fee
Have a bit of flair in setting up conscessions. Food area including somewhere to sit and eat the food you just charged a small ransom for. Bit of shade/shelter included.
Hold out the olive branch to the regional AirForces.
The Russians have aircraft they want to sell and demonstrate too
Sounds a small thing but soooo simple. If operationally possible, get a grader in a couple of months prior to first show and grade the spectator area so there is an even grade slope toward the movment area. The spectators will love it! 1m in 100m fall would be sufficient
And lastly GET RID OF THE INSPIRATIONAL MUSIC...sounds like a medal presenation at the Olympics.
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I'm not too sure about the RAAF running the show. The show is already seemingly the biggest recruiting drive of the year for the defence forces. If it's not insprirational defence type music, it's Captain Bloggs from the Airforce harping on the PA about going and visiting the defence recruiting tent.
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I remember going to a Geelong Airshow at Grovedale around 15 years ago in the year between the Avalon Airshow, with a huge crowd rolling up and ENJOYING just an average line-up of GA and Warbirds aircraft with no jets.
What made it so successful was:
-There were no gaps between acts
-Entry prices were reasonable
-You could walk around static aircraft
-People flying in could camp under there wing
-Think they had a Band playing Fri+Sat night and the aero club was still full on Sunday night
-Cheap joy-flight in Heli/Fixed wing before and after show
-Large hangar had plenty of seats to get out of the weather and rest.
I lived in Geelong at the time and remember reading "letters to the editor" in the local rag the next week. All who went THOUGHLY ENJOYED and some made remarks to Airshows Downunder then to "TAKE A LEAF OUT OF GROVEDALES BOOK" to improve their own show.
15 years later.....Whats changed???????????????????????
What made it so successful was:
-There were no gaps between acts
-Entry prices were reasonable
-You could walk around static aircraft
-People flying in could camp under there wing
-Think they had a Band playing Fri+Sat night and the aero club was still full on Sunday night
-Cheap joy-flight in Heli/Fixed wing before and after show
-Large hangar had plenty of seats to get out of the weather and rest.
I lived in Geelong at the time and remember reading "letters to the editor" in the local rag the next week. All who went THOUGHLY ENJOYED and some made remarks to Airshows Downunder then to "TAKE A LEAF OUT OF GROVEDALES BOOK" to improve their own show.
15 years later.....Whats changed???????????????????????
Pink Shirts??
G'Day 'Spod'.....
Re - 'very fetching pink shirts on, and marked my last involvement in the process.'
- Not 'retiring' are U ??
- You'd look looovly in a pink shirt......
Cheers
Re - 'very fetching pink shirts on, and marked my last involvement in the process.'
- Not 'retiring' are U ??
- You'd look looovly in a pink shirt......
Cheers
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Bairnsdale also run an airshow and it's every 5 years. Run by Rotary and Lions combined. For the area it's BIG, but probably due to the fact that it's only every 5 years so they manage to draw big crowds. It was the flying display that made Bairnsdale good, a bit of action and not the norm like firefighters rapelling from a chopper, chopper dropping a car, the stolen aircraft routine (with police arresting the culprit), roulettes, military choppers, Catalina, crop dusters, aerochutes, Pip racing a supercar down the runway rip, the B52, John Travolta sanctioning the event, local spirit and riviera weather.
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More of the same...
How about these three ideas for the organisers in 2011?
1. More walkways between the punters viewing area to the food stands behind all the corporate tents. (By the time I'd jostled with the crowd, the 4 overpriced hotdogs and coffees were cold when my mates finally received them
)
2. Some of the critical walkways would benefit from some kind of plastic matting laid down to avoid them turning into mud pits if it does get wet
3. It's impossible for us down here in Australia to compete with the big bangers in Europe. However, is it not feasible to get at least one Mig 29 or Harrier or something different to previous years as a show highlight? Yeah the Bone was different and good, it made lots of noise but it is still “God bless ‘em”. And on the other hand, some stuff we are normally treated to was completely absent! What happened to all of Australia’s Warbirds? Luckily I went on Saturday when the P51 was able to fly. No Boomerang, Spitfire, Kittyhawk, Sea Fury or Vampire 
? Did these guys read the weather forecast or was there more to their no show?
It was nice to see Qantas and the shiny new A380 depart. It looked great. Good enough to warrant a second pass
Enough whinging for now. Looking forward to 2011
1. More walkways between the punters viewing area to the food stands behind all the corporate tents. (By the time I'd jostled with the crowd, the 4 overpriced hotdogs and coffees were cold when my mates finally received them
)2. Some of the critical walkways would benefit from some kind of plastic matting laid down to avoid them turning into mud pits if it does get wet
3. It's impossible for us down here in Australia to compete with the big bangers in Europe. However, is it not feasible to get at least one Mig 29 or Harrier or something different to previous years as a show highlight? Yeah the Bone was different and good, it made lots of noise but it is still “God bless ‘em”
. And on the other hand, some stuff we are normally treated to was completely absent! What happened to all of Australia’s Warbirds? Luckily I went on Saturday when the P51 was able to fly. No Boomerang, Spitfire, Kittyhawk, Sea Fury or Vampire ? Did these guys read the weather forecast or was there more to their no show?It was nice to see Qantas and the shiny new A380 depart. It looked great. Good enough to warrant a second pass
Enough whinging for now. Looking forward to 2011
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No Boomerang, Spitfire, Kittyhawk, Sea Fury or Vampire 
? Did these guys read the weather forecast or was there more to their no show?
? Did these guys read the weather forecast or was there more to their no show?
'appearance money'
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However, is it not feasible to get at least one Mig 29 or Harrier or something different to previous years as a show highlight?
F111 cancelled on Sunday (B1 & other acts too) due XW out of limits on wet runway. Hardly within the control of Airshows Downunder. Runway dried out by the time the F18s went on.
Feet on the dash, you were obviuosly not around when the Wide Bay airshow was cancelled due to terrential rain a few years back.
I remember going to a Geelong Airshow at Grovedale around 15 years ago...
- Have it a few weeks sooner when the weather is a bit kinder
Was about time someone did this at Avalon...
Did anyone enjoy that Jelly Belly thing?
Did that new helo we just bought fly? NH90 is it?
How can one get a gig?
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Just some context to many of the constructive and not-so-contrcutive comments so far...
* Warbirds - unfortunately Airshows and Temora are in dispute over who pays for what at Avalon, so until that's resolved, there'll be no Temora aircraft present. let's hope they can come to terms for 2011...
* Foreign mil aircraft - what's in it for them to bring a Harrier, MiG-29, Gripen, Rafale, Eurofighter or anything else here? there are no active sales campaigns here or anywhere near here, so neither a foreign military or a manufacturer is going to spend the millions to bring them. Kudos to Boeing for bringing two Supers and the Omega KDC-10 here via Denmark and India, especially as they've already sold the jet to us, and to the USAF for bringing the Bones and C-5. Pity the F-22s currently based on Guam or at Kadena couldn't make the hop...
* The weather - you're kidding right? It's Melbourne! I actually thought the airshow site stood up quite well to the weather considering there was NO grass of any consequence to hold the ground together once the wet stuff started falling. Sure, there was a bit of mud on some of the more heavily trafficked paths, but in general the amount of gravel that had been put down soaked alot of it up, and the carparks were remarkably dry.
* Non aviation related stalls - hey, it's a large group of people in a small area. If you don't want to buy Pandora, keep walking past!
* The flying - ok, it was a shame the Pig got canned on Sunday, but it is an airshow after all and, for a non-essential mission, the weather was out of limits. I thought Friday night was quite effective with the low cloud, especially the F-111's final pass. It would've been great to see Connie fly and to see the Hornets bottom out on their strafing runs, but kudos to HARS for the Connie fast taxis - made for a great time exposure shot from the Boeing chalet! Ricardo and Acko were excellent - I never get tired of seeing them make their jets dance!
* The Commentary - I thought Peter Meakin did a fine job - it was most of the sidekick commentators who stuffed it up. Dave Prosser does know his stuff, and the RAAF guys who accompanied the Hornet displays did well too. The yanks were, as usual, over the top, and the Jelly Belly guy...well...
That said, I agree Jeff Watson would be great as well!
* The Trade Show - the main event of the show really! I thought it was pretty good all things considering - made some new and renewed some old contacts, and got some good networking done. Most thought that, although numbers were down, the quality of displays, customers and defence people was still there. I liked the three smaller halls with most of the conference and meeting rooms inside, instead of the two larger ones.
Oh, and top marks to the Australian Aviation team for the new Show Daily magazine thingy they did - must've been a big effort on their part and a quality product as a result!
Overall, not bad considering. I'd give the show a 6.5/10.
* Warbirds - unfortunately Airshows and Temora are in dispute over who pays for what at Avalon, so until that's resolved, there'll be no Temora aircraft present. let's hope they can come to terms for 2011...
* Foreign mil aircraft - what's in it for them to bring a Harrier, MiG-29, Gripen, Rafale, Eurofighter or anything else here? there are no active sales campaigns here or anywhere near here, so neither a foreign military or a manufacturer is going to spend the millions to bring them. Kudos to Boeing for bringing two Supers and the Omega KDC-10 here via Denmark and India, especially as they've already sold the jet to us, and to the USAF for bringing the Bones and C-5. Pity the F-22s currently based on Guam or at Kadena couldn't make the hop...
* The weather - you're kidding right? It's Melbourne! I actually thought the airshow site stood up quite well to the weather considering there was NO grass of any consequence to hold the ground together once the wet stuff started falling. Sure, there was a bit of mud on some of the more heavily trafficked paths, but in general the amount of gravel that had been put down soaked alot of it up, and the carparks were remarkably dry.
* Non aviation related stalls - hey, it's a large group of people in a small area. If you don't want to buy Pandora, keep walking past!
* The flying - ok, it was a shame the Pig got canned on Sunday, but it is an airshow after all and, for a non-essential mission, the weather was out of limits. I thought Friday night was quite effective with the low cloud, especially the F-111's final pass. It would've been great to see Connie fly and to see the Hornets bottom out on their strafing runs, but kudos to HARS for the Connie fast taxis - made for a great time exposure shot from the Boeing chalet! Ricardo and Acko were excellent - I never get tired of seeing them make their jets dance!
* The Commentary - I thought Peter Meakin did a fine job - it was most of the sidekick commentators who stuffed it up. Dave Prosser does know his stuff, and the RAAF guys who accompanied the Hornet displays did well too. The yanks were, as usual, over the top, and the Jelly Belly guy...well...
That said, I agree Jeff Watson would be great as well!* The Trade Show - the main event of the show really! I thought it was pretty good all things considering - made some new and renewed some old contacts, and got some good networking done. Most thought that, although numbers were down, the quality of displays, customers and defence people was still there. I liked the three smaller halls with most of the conference and meeting rooms inside, instead of the two larger ones.
Oh, and top marks to the Australian Aviation team for the new Show Daily magazine thingy they did - must've been a big effort on their part and a quality product as a result!
Overall, not bad considering. I'd give the show a 6.5/10.
Last edited by FoxtrotAlpha18; 18th Mar 2009 at 07:48. Reason: Caps lock crapped itself - had to reboot
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Whilst I didn't make it to Avalon this year I have spoken to enough sensible people to understand that apart from a few small hiccups, the Trade days went off pretty much as planned. I do understand however that there were a few difficulties with the Public Days.
This being a 'professional" aviators forum I would have thought that there would have been a focus on the trade component of the show rather than the oh argh flying stuff. That stuff is for the easily impressed "Joe Public" who knows no better!
Yes there will always be a few noshows for any number of reasons, Victorian weather is a case in point.
Fortunately there will also be those people that actually quietly contribute to the success of the whole execise.
Philthy, Peter Meakin and Dave Prosser are a few of those long time contributors. Without the likes of these 3 there would be no Avalon.
Thanks fella's.
This being a 'professional" aviators forum I would have thought that there would have been a focus on the trade component of the show rather than the oh argh flying stuff. That stuff is for the easily impressed "Joe Public" who knows no better!
Yes there will always be a few noshows for any number of reasons, Victorian weather is a case in point.
Fortunately there will also be those people that actually quietly contribute to the success of the whole execise.
Philthy, Peter Meakin and Dave Prosser are a few of those long time contributors. Without the likes of these 3 there would be no Avalon.
Thanks fella's.
I believe there is a difference of opinion between the Avalon people and the Temora people regarding 'appearance money' and other similar matters.
Save up all your pennies and go to Oshkosh - then you'll never have to bother with another airshow!
Dr
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Philthy you musn't be old enough to remember the cancellation of the Queensland International Airshow. I was ready in front of the TV to watch it when it was cancelled due to rain.
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I did not attend the show this year because at the last show I was quite shocked by the length of the public vehicular traffic jam trying to get in when the show opens in the morning and get out when the show closes at the end of the day. Not everyone is privileged enough to have their own private air transport, you know.
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I'm not so sure that appearance money would get the Temora team there anyway, although for sure that would be an issue. Having spoken to a few people within the THFC since the last Avalon, there are other issues involved, being:
1. The aircraft won't be based on hard stand. Note even the Southern Knights operated from Pt Cook for the weekend.
2. Avalon is not seen as supporting the warbird movement in anyway. TAM is always ready to support shows that are seen to contribute to historic aviation.
3. TAM wants people to come to Temora to see the planes, not the other way around. Exceptions are made for shows that are seen to be in the interests of historic aviation: Albury, WOI, Pt Cook.
And you can throw a lot of the private owners in with them as well. Jeff and Jim did a great job on the weekend, although Jeff had to abort his Sunday routine. But in the past, there have been so many private warbirds that are still around, but we don't see any more: TBM, Hunter (grounded?), P-40, T-28, Vampire, Strikemaster, Iskras. Lets see how many we can remember.
Avalon is Australia's only commercial show, and the warbird owners shouldn't be expected to subsidise that with their own money they way they do for the charity shows. Judy Pay once told me it cost her $10000 to send the Mustang and SNJ away to an air show. For that her return was fuel money, accommodation and an excuse to fly her planes. Why should they kick that money into the coffers of ASDU, when they know very little of it will be spent on developing aviation?
One other suggestion for Avalon: when the weather is expected to be a 40 kt cross wind, the night before move to Point Cook all the aircraft that will be flying the following day. Runway 22 would have allowed all the flying displays to go ahead. This is the reason why the Trappett Mustang couldn't fly but the RAAFM one did. The Pig and the Connie would probably all have flown on the Sunday if that runway had been available to them. Not so sure that anything could have been done for the B1-B though.
Walrus
1. The aircraft won't be based on hard stand. Note even the Southern Knights operated from Pt Cook for the weekend.
2. Avalon is not seen as supporting the warbird movement in anyway. TAM is always ready to support shows that are seen to contribute to historic aviation.
3. TAM wants people to come to Temora to see the planes, not the other way around. Exceptions are made for shows that are seen to be in the interests of historic aviation: Albury, WOI, Pt Cook.
And you can throw a lot of the private owners in with them as well. Jeff and Jim did a great job on the weekend, although Jeff had to abort his Sunday routine. But in the past, there have been so many private warbirds that are still around, but we don't see any more: TBM, Hunter (grounded?), P-40, T-28, Vampire, Strikemaster, Iskras. Lets see how many we can remember.
Avalon is Australia's only commercial show, and the warbird owners shouldn't be expected to subsidise that with their own money they way they do for the charity shows. Judy Pay once told me it cost her $10000 to send the Mustang and SNJ away to an air show. For that her return was fuel money, accommodation and an excuse to fly her planes. Why should they kick that money into the coffers of ASDU, when they know very little of it will be spent on developing aviation?
One other suggestion for Avalon: when the weather is expected to be a 40 kt cross wind, the night before move to Point Cook all the aircraft that will be flying the following day. Runway 22 would have allowed all the flying displays to go ahead. This is the reason why the Trappett Mustang couldn't fly but the RAAFM one did. The Pig and the Connie would probably all have flown on the Sunday if that runway had been available to them. Not so sure that anything could have been done for the B1-B though.
Walrus