Demotivated....Ideas Please.
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Demotivated....Ideas Please.
Maybe it's just the time of year, but I'm due for a flight review and am starting to think about whether I want to proceed with this game.
I'm a simple PPL who flies for the heck of it, usually to escape winter for a while and do a bit of touring. I'm cheesed off about a number of things.
The first is that I'm getting heartily sick and tired of the thinly disguised annoyance at all the major schools, chocked full of foreign students spending big money to be airline pilots, when I walk in and enquire about hiring an aircraft or finding an instructor for an hour or Two.
For example, I was informed of a certain amount of "irritation" when I hired a certain aircraft for a few weeks to do some touring because it interfered with the training of some people, not withstanding the fact that I put at least as many hours on it as it would have had if left on the flight line.
I've tried to find someone to continue my aerobatics work after my instructor left, but I get the impression that instructors at Two schools are just too busy to want to bother teaching me. They obviously don't need my money. The crowding in the circuit is also getting on my nerves.
I used to approach a flight review as a learning opportunity, and would seek out the oldest, least bold, and most experienced instructor I could to put together an interesting, demanding and creative learning experience as I was put through my paces.
Well, there don't seem to be many old characters left around Melbourne these days, and the thought of spending $600 - $800 to listen to all the platitudes I've heard before from some bored young turkey as we drag ourselves around the country doesn't exactly thrill me. I'm also getting sick and tired of the constant need to put my hand in my pocket for ERSA and charts, ASIC, Medical, etc.
Maybe it's just that time of year, but I'm seriously de motivated about staying current, I get the impression that myself and other PPLs are being crowded out, and I don't know what to do about it.
I'm a simple PPL who flies for the heck of it, usually to escape winter for a while and do a bit of touring. I'm cheesed off about a number of things.
The first is that I'm getting heartily sick and tired of the thinly disguised annoyance at all the major schools, chocked full of foreign students spending big money to be airline pilots, when I walk in and enquire about hiring an aircraft or finding an instructor for an hour or Two.
For example, I was informed of a certain amount of "irritation" when I hired a certain aircraft for a few weeks to do some touring because it interfered with the training of some people, not withstanding the fact that I put at least as many hours on it as it would have had if left on the flight line.
I've tried to find someone to continue my aerobatics work after my instructor left, but I get the impression that instructors at Two schools are just too busy to want to bother teaching me. They obviously don't need my money. The crowding in the circuit is also getting on my nerves.
I used to approach a flight review as a learning opportunity, and would seek out the oldest, least bold, and most experienced instructor I could to put together an interesting, demanding and creative learning experience as I was put through my paces.
Well, there don't seem to be many old characters left around Melbourne these days, and the thought of spending $600 - $800 to listen to all the platitudes I've heard before from some bored young turkey as we drag ourselves around the country doesn't exactly thrill me. I'm also getting sick and tired of the constant need to put my hand in my pocket for ERSA and charts, ASIC, Medical, etc.
Maybe it's just that time of year, but I'm seriously de motivated about staying current, I get the impression that myself and other PPLs are being crowded out, and I don't know what to do about it.
Sunfish, we need to have a chat about this. There are a few instructors I know who would be more than happy to do your review and who also should meet your requirements. Plenty of other options to discuss too.
I'll be at MB today.
I'll be at MB today.
Sunny,
Here's the problem as I see it:-
You are a RECREATIONAL pilot. Don't try and find satisfactory ways of advancing you hobby at schools geared towards professional training.
You need to get seriously involved in a purely recreational avenue.
I've always had a foot in both camps. Whilst flying for a living, I've also been involved in skydiving, aerobatics and gliding. I can recommend any of those to you as a very fulfilling way to enjoy flying without going anywhere near a flying school.
My suggestion would be to go and do a thorough aerobatic course with an aerobatic instructor in a REAL aerobatic aircraft (Decathlon minimum- C150 Aerobats need not apply!!) then perhaps look at getting into a syndicate ownership of a descent aerobatic aircraft.
I don't know what you've done up until now, but the satisfaction of flying,mastering, and competing in something like a Pitts S1 is near the pinnacle of aviation experiences.
Next time you've got leave, go and spend a week with Phil Unicomb at Maitland. It could SERIOUSLY mess up your life!!!
edited because I crossed with djpil and wanted to say, Yo Pilks!!!
Here's the problem as I see it:-
You are a RECREATIONAL pilot. Don't try and find satisfactory ways of advancing you hobby at schools geared towards professional training.
You need to get seriously involved in a purely recreational avenue.
I've always had a foot in both camps. Whilst flying for a living, I've also been involved in skydiving, aerobatics and gliding. I can recommend any of those to you as a very fulfilling way to enjoy flying without going anywhere near a flying school.
My suggestion would be to go and do a thorough aerobatic course with an aerobatic instructor in a REAL aerobatic aircraft (Decathlon minimum- C150 Aerobats need not apply!!) then perhaps look at getting into a syndicate ownership of a descent aerobatic aircraft.
I don't know what you've done up until now, but the satisfaction of flying,mastering, and competing in something like a Pitts S1 is near the pinnacle of aviation experiences.
Next time you've got leave, go and spend a week with Phil Unicomb at Maitland. It could SERIOUSLY mess up your life!!!
edited because I crossed with djpil and wanted to say, Yo Pilks!!!
Sunfish. When approaching checks many continue to ask themselves if it is all worth it, especially nowadays the cost of the documents is prohibitive enough, let alone the cost of clapped-out, depreciated for the tenth time airframes and of course the attitude of some schools to hiring aircraft for touring as you've pointed out. I feel Wiz has hit the nail firmly on the head there with that post. A bit of variety and mixing up your flying with different disciplines may well be all that is needed.
That is awesome advice! You'll have a smile on your dial for weeks and weeks afterwards if you do that - Oh Yeah!
Next time you've got leave, go and spend a week with Phil Unicomb at Maitland. It could SERIOUSLY mess up your life!!!
You could spend 5 hours converting over to a Recreational Licence. Combine it with a challenge such as a tailwheel endorsement to get maximum value. Sure, you still have to do a flight review every two years, but at least within the RAA movement the schools and instructors are keen to do whatever small jobs come their way.
Soon the recreational class is likely to go up to 760 kg, so unless your 'thing' is 4 seaters etc there will be quite a choice of planes to fly.
Soon the recreational class is likely to go up to 760 kg, so unless your 'thing' is 4 seaters etc there will be quite a choice of planes to fly.
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As a PPL myself I can identify quite strongly with you sunfish.
I think the point made re commercial flying schools v recreational is very valid. I've always flown through clubs rather than the more commercial schools so guess come flight test time I've not had quite the same quandary regarding the test. In fact, I try to add a new skill as I approach the renewal so I don't have a flight test as such. My last two renewals were covered by doing a CSU and retract rating and more recently a Night Rating. An Aerobatic rating may be for you - but consider the other add on's that may also help your flying.
I've taken the decision to try not to stand still with my flying and trying to move on to the next level. To this aim I'm now working towards a CPL and hopefully later an Instructor rating. This is still not without issue. For instance, I am finding it very hard to justify the cost of flying these days. I did a return flight to Bourke the other week and the cost of the aircraft hire came in at over $1,800. Now I know flying is expensive, but I could have got to the UK for that.
The only way I can think of justifying the cost is that by working towards an instructor rating with a goal of ultimately doing part time instruction, it will be an investment that I will hopefully get some return on (although the money would most likely earn more sat in the bank there is always the enjoyment factor to consider!).
I think the point made re commercial flying schools v recreational is very valid. I've always flown through clubs rather than the more commercial schools so guess come flight test time I've not had quite the same quandary regarding the test. In fact, I try to add a new skill as I approach the renewal so I don't have a flight test as such. My last two renewals were covered by doing a CSU and retract rating and more recently a Night Rating. An Aerobatic rating may be for you - but consider the other add on's that may also help your flying.
I've taken the decision to try not to stand still with my flying and trying to move on to the next level. To this aim I'm now working towards a CPL and hopefully later an Instructor rating. This is still not without issue. For instance, I am finding it very hard to justify the cost of flying these days. I did a return flight to Bourke the other week and the cost of the aircraft hire came in at over $1,800. Now I know flying is expensive, but I could have got to the UK for that.
The only way I can think of justifying the cost is that by working towards an instructor rating with a goal of ultimately doing part time instruction, it will be an investment that I will hopefully get some return on (although the money would most likely earn more sat in the bank there is always the enjoyment factor to consider!).
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Go north
I would reccomend taking a two hour drive to NE Vic and trying some of thhe smaller school
Can reccomend Skyways in Benalla
Very experienced instructor
Personal attention
Also has a gliding club there
might renew your love of flying
Can reccomend Skyways in Benalla
Very experienced instructor
Personal attention
Also has a gliding club there
might renew your love of flying
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RA Aus is one great answer. Conversion Training is another option (better than a Flight Review). The best answer is of course to get the hell away from that school. I don't know Melbourne but that Maitland thing sounds all right.
Just think of this as an excuse for you to justify spending the extra money on doing something fun (tailwheel endo, work towards a multi endo (even if you don't finish it instructor signs you out for an AFR), Low Level endo, Formation etc).
Aus needs more people committing aviation for the fun of it so get out there and have some fun.
FRQ CB
Just think of this as an excuse for you to justify spending the extra money on doing something fun (tailwheel endo, work towards a multi endo (even if you don't finish it instructor signs you out for an AFR), Low Level endo, Formation etc).
Aus needs more people committing aviation for the fun of it so get out there and have some fun.
FRQ CB
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Sunfish,
I'm a PPL in Melbourne and share your views. Can I ask what schools your refering to? That way I may avoid them when I need to do future BFR's.
Can anybody recommened schools down at MB or elsewhere that focus more on recreational flying and not simply the processing of foreigh students.
Can anybody point me in the direction of a reputable school that can do RAAus conversions (from PPL to RAAus Certificate) in or around Melbourne.
Cheers,
AB
I'm a PPL in Melbourne and share your views. Can I ask what schools your refering to? That way I may avoid them when I need to do future BFR's.
Can anybody recommened schools down at MB or elsewhere that focus more on recreational flying and not simply the processing of foreigh students.
Can anybody point me in the direction of a reputable school that can do RAAus conversions (from PPL to RAAus Certificate) in or around Melbourne.
Cheers,
AB
Sunfish I think you are reading my mind.
The only thing I would add to your list of demotivators is the look I get from almost everyone in every flying school as I walk in the door. I don't have the blue slacks, white shirt and blue tie so surely I can't be a "proper" pilot even though I have lots more hours than they do! I would have thought my money was as good as the next guy's / girl's. Not to mention that in 12 months time I won't be back in India or Asia; I will still be coming in every weekend to hand over a few hundred bucks more for the privilege of renting their crapped out, passenger frightening, late 60s vintage aircraft.
I concur with the Phil Unicomb suggestion though. Best fun you can anywhere!
The only thing I would add to your list of demotivators is the look I get from almost everyone in every flying school as I walk in the door. I don't have the blue slacks, white shirt and blue tie so surely I can't be a "proper" pilot even though I have lots more hours than they do! I would have thought my money was as good as the next guy's / girl's. Not to mention that in 12 months time I won't be back in India or Asia; I will still be coming in every weekend to hand over a few hundred bucks more for the privilege of renting their crapped out, passenger frightening, late 60s vintage aircraft.
I concur with the Phil Unicomb suggestion though. Best fun you can anywhere!
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Sorry to hear you're getting the stinkeye from flying schools. I saw that more and more at my old flying school as it became a sausage factory over time.
I'd suggest a great flying school on the Gold Coast with hands down the best attitude I've ever encountered, but I imagine having a family and all you'd like to keep it local.
It's sad to see that PPLs like yourself aren't being treated seriously when all you're trying to do is fulfil your legal obligations and improve your skills.
Happy Christmas and good luck with it.
I'd suggest a great flying school on the Gold Coast with hands down the best attitude I've ever encountered, but I imagine having a family and all you'd like to keep it local.
It's sad to see that PPLs like yourself aren't being treated seriously when all you're trying to do is fulfil your legal obligations and improve your skills.
Happy Christmas and good luck with it.
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Sunfish,
Do what I did, buy a boat and go fishing.
Its cheaper, its relaxing, theres no study, the license test is easy and you still get to look at MET stuff plus you can feed the family.
Do what I did, buy a boat and go fishing.
Its cheaper, its relaxing, theres no study, the license test is easy and you still get to look at MET stuff plus you can feed the family.
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Sunfish...
I know of a flying school for sale..... in Sydney. as owner you would be respected every time you walked in the door, and would never have a problem booking an aircraft.plus, this school even makes money!
I know of a flying school for sale..... in Sydney. as owner you would be respected every time you walked in the door, and would never have a problem booking an aircraft.plus, this school even makes money!
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Sunfish, I sympathise your plight despite the fact I have commercial ratings.
I still treasure the days when I was a PPL for recreation and loved learning to fly out of small airfields and strips in upstate Victoria. Have you considered those instead of sausage factories at MB, PC or EN ? Country schools and clubs are often nicer and besides you save a lot more on landing fees.
I self-funded all my flight training and avoided all the sausage factories for exactly the same reasons. Mind you, I still end up with crapped out, passenger frightening, late 60s vintage aircraft !
I still treasure the days when I was a PPL for recreation and loved learning to fly out of small airfields and strips in upstate Victoria. Have you considered those instead of sausage factories at MB, PC or EN ? Country schools and clubs are often nicer and besides you save a lot more on landing fees.
I self-funded all my flight training and avoided all the sausage factories for exactly the same reasons. Mind you, I still end up with crapped out, passenger frightening, late 60s vintage aircraft !
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Gday Sunny,
The country thing would be good - refreshing change of scenery and attitudes. Maitland is getting a few good reviews so might be worth a try.
If the cost is still a barrier, as someone mentioned before gliding is a blast.
I am a CPL holder but if I flew for leisure I would glide. It is relaxing and it is a good club environment where people are there because they want to be there. You also won't have to spend much on maps and bureaucratic bs. The last time I went gliding an hour cost about $50-60 depending on how high you got towed. Sure beats spending ~$300. The only downside is it is limited to local flying unless you start to get serious and do some cross country gliding (I haven't done any cross country gliding so I can't really comment on it - if anyone has done x-country gliding it'd be great to hear about it).
Cheers
The country thing would be good - refreshing change of scenery and attitudes. Maitland is getting a few good reviews so might be worth a try.
If the cost is still a barrier, as someone mentioned before gliding is a blast.
I am a CPL holder but if I flew for leisure I would glide. It is relaxing and it is a good club environment where people are there because they want to be there. You also won't have to spend much on maps and bureaucratic bs. The last time I went gliding an hour cost about $50-60 depending on how high you got towed. Sure beats spending ~$300. The only downside is it is limited to local flying unless you start to get serious and do some cross country gliding (I haven't done any cross country gliding so I can't really comment on it - if anyone has done x-country gliding it'd be great to hear about it).
Cheers