Domestos

Thank you Eden99 for your post and indeed Merry Christmas to you and all of our colleagues out there.

This is taking the thread to a different direction. The FAAA have just released something in a TWTW memo today:

"With the approval of your Enterprise Agreement now completed, we will initiate discussions with the International Division with a view to reaching an agreement between the divisions on the Association’s proposal on transfer numbers between the divisions per financial year. Subsequently, discussions with the Company will be necessary to finalise this important and valued condition for all members."

Finally!!!!!!!! I wonder what made the FAAA have a change of heart? Before EBA 7 (2008), they were adamant that there was nothing they could do to secure swap course slots. Now they've changed their mind. Oh it must be Christmas!

I'm gonna be looking forward to getting my David Jones $30 gift card from the company on Xmas Day! lol.

Pegasus747

Domestos, the FAAA can agree to anything they like. no matter what they "agree" to it doesnt compel or require the company to do it.

The LH FAAA position has always been why Limit transfers to a particular number.

SH seem to be fixated on a number in the hope that somehow it will bind the company. I dont think that this is the case but i am sure if SH FAAA wanted 1000 or 100 a year the LH FAAA would agree to it

the challenge for SH FAAA is that no LH crew want to go to SH

Hence if you make it a "swap" provision then SH crew will not be able to come over....

Good luck is all i can say

GalleyHag

Well why does the company bother to maintain the transfer lists on the cabin crew website from long haul to short haul for crew that wish to transfer to the following bases?

Sydney 218 Crew, Melbourne 87 crew, Brisbane 255 crew, Perth 14 crew and I couldnt access the Cairns requests.

Pegasus747

They maintain the lists for the same reason that people go to church..it gives them hope :P

GalleyHag

Im confused so the long haul faaa is stating no long haul crew want to come to short haul but the transfer lists state otherwise and just this morning I had coffee with a girlfriend on the Sydney long haul to short haul list and she said thats the first she has ever heard of NO crew wanting to go long haul to short haul.

However she did say there was more interest prior to the last long haul EBA being voted up but there are still quite a few people that still wish to transfer to short haul herself included.

Pegasus747

Correct Galleyhag

There are at the moment or the last time it was offered no repeat NO long haul crew that want to go to short haul.

This of course might change in the future but i suspect that as unlimited part - time and a significant increase in regional international flying was introduced in Lh with EBA 8 that the desire to transfer to SH for that flexibility is now gone

Pegasus747

I have heard that a petition is being circulated in the QF MELB LH base to introduce Line Bidding.

Apparently the quality of rosters is so bad that many are requesting the FAAA to introduce Line Bidding rather than trip specific bidding in Melbourne

Suffice to say it could be done in Melbourne without affecting seniority bidding in other bases. And i guess that as the QCCA crew are now the majority in Melbourne any plebicite would be carried easily it is very concerning that the noisy minority could stuff seniority up and ruin it for all

Qantart

Peg,

Excuse my ignorance, but how does line bidding actually work, and when reffering to those with bad rosters are you referring to QCCA or QAL. Furthermore, when you talk about any future vote going on about introducing a "line bidding system" would the vote include QCCA staff, considering they don't actually bid?

Reality is, Melbourne rosters will get even worse now that LA's are slowly going. Anything decent left over will be taken by seniors, hence if people think the flying out of Melbourne is bad now, wait till next bid period.

packrat

QCCA dont Bid
How would bidding for lines improve the quality of rosters?
QCCA crew would still receive what would be considered by others to be undesirable rosters
What would be the advantage of bidlines to the company?
It would seem to be a case of "careful what you wish for"
Would this have an impact on other bases?

indamiddle

lax on the way out, lhr on the way in.
line bidding is an ex s/h thing, you bid for most desirable roster but you would never get a roster with all weekends off or all tue/wed off if you were studing p/t at uni. it doesn't solve the problem of crap flying, never will. only solution is better patterns.... won#t happen!

Pegasus747

well apparently its not the QCCA crew that are complaining ...it's the QAL crew that do not like the way rosters are being built as they cant get exactly what they want out of the bid run.

There are many variable that come into play in the bid run and the system only takes into consideration your preferences based on seniority but logic dictates that even the most senior cannot get everything they want if the system needs certain trips they have bid for to build rosters lower down.

The system must try to build everyone a valid roster with as close to possible to max hours. In doing that it will not often give you what you want and it may give trips to those junior to you that you have bid for in order to build them a valid line. It will not ever give you what you want if it means someone lower down will be short of hours as nothing left in the run will build them a valid line.

Its that simple......

So in the smaller bases the problem is even greater as there are less trips available and less variety and length of trips and the roster build is more challenging

As complex as it is... i still think that trip bidding is better than line bidding

Line bidding will at least work on strict seniority but it has less flexibility built in. If MELB base wants strict seniority it will at least make them feel better from that perspective but they need to be careful what they ask for as they may get more than they bargained for

RedTBar

I don't think even Pegasus is that naive to think that the company would let Melbourne have line bidding and not bring it into Sydney and Brisvegas as well.
If crew in Melbourne want line bidding because the rosters are lousy then I'm suspicious enough to think this is part of a bigger plan.The company would never run 2 different roster systems just to help crew out.The company has wanted line bidding for ages and it looks like our union is considering it?
The company would need a sneaky and back door way of getting this in and this might be the ticket for them.

Pegasus747

it would be fair to say that the union (elected officials ) totally supports the seniority based preferential bid system. (warts and all)

However as always it is a matter for the membership. The union can only do so much and if the members are convinced that line bidding is the way to go it would require a vote of the membership as it would be a variation to the EBA.

From a personal perspective i have always believed that some choice is better than no choice. but in the case of Melbourne and that almost mad beehive mentality they are clearly capable of throwing the baby out with the bathwater it seems

RedTBar

Like I said,is there anyone here that believes that the company would give Melbourne crew a line bidding system and let Sydney and Brisbane keep their trip bidding roster system?
Posted by Pegasus,and we all know which office Pegasus works inWhat a load of Malarkey
No company would have 2 roster systems in the one business just to please a few people.

Don't be fooled.
Any vote for a change in Melbourne is a vote for a change for all of us.

cartexchange

Mel should be ignored! they will ruin it for all of us

flyergirl

I have sat here quietly observing proceedings, but feel I must now speak. There are a small minority of very vocal people in Melbourne putting forward this proposal(to anyone they think might listen). The (silent) majority do not feel this way, so it would be a pity to condemn the entire base as having this opinion as it is simply not true. Any system has its pitfalls, and as the FAAA has explained, the company intends to move all QCCA to the A380(latest newsletter), then once again the bidding goal posts will move. I'm afraid you can't please all of the people all of the time....

RedTBar

There are a lot of different truths that we hear everyday but the truth depends on who is telling you the story.
The company has their truth
The faaa L/H has their truth
The faaa S/H has their truth
They all have the truth as they see it or want it us to see it so they get what they want.
The problem is that instead of working in a building we work in small groups all over the world.We can't meet out the front during lunch time to talk.So instead we all talk in small groups in hundred of galleys and read things like PPRUNE.We hear & read rumour and fact but have no way of knowing which is BS and which is real.
I don't know which is worse,Pegasus telling us that melbourne could have line bidding without upsetting the apple cart in sydney and brisbane.
Or a few unknown crew moving unilaterally to change the bid system for all of us.

What I do know is that if there is a change it will be for all of us not just a few crew in melbourne.

call button

Line bidding was used in shorthaul years ago, before there were computers to construct rosters. All the lines were printed and numbered in order from say 1 - 200, depending on how many crew. Some lines were flying, and some purely reserve. You bid for the lines in the order you wanted, and they were awarded in seniority.

The problem, from the company's perspective is that there are massive problems at the end and start of the bid period. If you have a trip that overrlaps into the next bid period, you may get a roster starting on the first day of the next bid period, therefore the company will have to take a trip off you. There may be a large number of crew with trips at the beginning of the bid period, that need to be taken off them. This is a crewing nightmare, it used to happen at shorthaul many years ago, but computer bidding fixed this. So I seriously doubt the company would go back to this old style of 'line bidding'.

Pegasus747

Call Button, i disagree with you. I think the company would use any opportunity to get rid of the seniority based system.

My personal view is that the current system is not perfect as there are so many variables that come into play when building a roster. but it is certainly better than most of the other options i have seen over the years.

Sadly some people only see their lives through the roster and what gets put on their lines and they dont see the bigger picture.

That is why the FAAA has always had the view that some choice is better than no choice. Crew have to realise that if they keep complaining about the roster system something will eventually give....

The company are looking for any opportunity to undermine the current system and the Melbourne base is where they think they can find a chink in the armour.

The FAAA has to represent the view of the majority of crew and has always believed that the majority prefer the current system despite its faults. Sadly in melbourne which is populated in the QAL area by mostly ex SH crew they are screaming so loud about not getting what they want that the company ears have started to prick up and managers are going to the crew and saying well we would love to make the system better but you have to get onto the FAAA about it and "band" together.


The FAAA has issued a newsletter indicating that the elected official support the current system warts and all. However they have clearly indicated that in any democracy the majority rule.

I think that the Melbourne base needs to shut their collective traps over their bloody rosters as they made a choice to go there to save commuting costs.

The best thing that could happen is the closure of the melbourne base. All the flying would then come to Brisbane and Sydney and the quality of rosters overall would improve.

It's interesting that the Brisbane base despite having similar problems does not whinge constantly like the moaners in Melbourne....Perhaps its the weather???

prunezeuss

Bid lines are a disaster.
Crew just pick the trips they want to do and then flick the rest.
If they are worried about sick leave now just wait til they have bid lines.
Qantas have always been good at picking the weakest link to achieve an outcome.
The Girls Union,The Domestics and now the vocal minority in Melbourne.
Our colleagues are our worst enemy.
If this gets up in Melbourne it will be like a contagion through the rest of our ranks.