What's happening at Bankstown
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" Black Charlie's Hill "
To the east of Bankstowm airfield and about 2nm from the perimiter is an isolated hill that from memory was around 200 ft AMSL. It was called "Black Charlie's Hill. I'd be interested to know if it is still known by that name.
Ocean Person.
Ocean Person.
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Black Charlie's Hill
I remember night flying at Bankstown and the programme was stopped due to a C310 crew, during a simulated engine failure, had the good one start to run down. They managed to get the other one running again before going into the trees on the hill, however came home whitefaced. We all adjourned to the bar to recount the incident with a heap of beers!.
Black Charlie's Hill does have a history.
Tmb
Black Charlie's Hill does have a history.
Tmb
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let the games begin...
I noticed earlier today that the 'nice' folk at BAL have steped up their game playing by which I mean they have now resorted to changing the locks on the hangar in question & placing signs up to the effect that the hangar is now property of BAL & only those having permission from BAL may enter the hangar.
oh & i nearly forgot, they also have a security guard out the front
what a wonderful world we live in, where all the as*#$%es have the power and rights to take whats not theirs
oh & i nearly forgot, they also have a security guard out the front
what a wonderful world we live in, where all the as*#$%es have the power and rights to take whats not theirs
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Black Charlie's Hill
aussie hawk and Tmbstory:
Thanks for the update on Black Charlie's Hill . It is good to know that at least some little thing about the old Bankstown airfield remains. I am actually surprised that the name remains as it always has. Regards
Ocean Person
Thanks for the update on Black Charlie's Hill . It is good to know that at least some little thing about the old Bankstown airfield remains. I am actually surprised that the name remains as it always has. Regards
Ocean Person
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Black Charlie's Hill
Ocean Person:
I suppose Black Charlie's Hill is now a built up residential area. In the time I am talking about ( 1958 / 1960 ) it had very few houses and a lot of trees. Bankstown was then pretty much an all over field..
Regards
Tmb
I suppose Black Charlie's Hill is now a built up residential area. In the time I am talking about ( 1958 / 1960 ) it had very few houses and a lot of trees. Bankstown was then pretty much an all over field..
Regards
Tmb
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Black Charlie's Hill
Tmbstory:
My first association with Bankstown Airfield was when it was a big paddock. There were a number of icons associated with the operations in those days and I wonder if you recall any of the following.
Things
Ocean Person
My first association with Bankstown Airfield was when it was a big paddock. There were a number of icons associated with the operations in those days and I wonder if you recall any of the following.
Things
- The Trustcott Flying Club hangar
- The Howard Morris hangar
- The Sid Marshall hangar
- The old control tower on the corner
- The canteen operated by the Walden family
- The Curtis Madsen hangar
- KSAS Flying School
- Dick Creak
- Tass Dalton
- Howard Morris
- Samy Dodds (The man in the hat)
- Black Jack Walker
- Tom Watson (Aerial Ag)
- Bruce Cowan
Ocean Person
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Bankstown
Ocean Person:
I do recall most of the" Things " and" People" I was an up and coming young flying instructor at the Royal in those days and many a good memory and stories.
The canteen was a part of the folklore of the airport, not sure of the owners name at that time but we called it "The Palace of .......", it did a roaring trade.
The old control tower on the corner was the heart of the aerodrome and had a combination of lights and radio and some really good operators.
Black Jack Walker was mainly over the other side at H de H and told many stories at the Bar in the Royal.
Sammy Dodds was one of the early founders of single pilot IFR operations.
A fantastic time in my life as I was starting my professional career which lasted 43 years with some great experiences.
Regards
Tmb
I do recall most of the" Things " and" People" I was an up and coming young flying instructor at the Royal in those days and many a good memory and stories.
The canteen was a part of the folklore of the airport, not sure of the owners name at that time but we called it "The Palace of .......", it did a roaring trade.
The old control tower on the corner was the heart of the aerodrome and had a combination of lights and radio and some really good operators.
Black Jack Walker was mainly over the other side at H de H and told many stories at the Bar in the Royal.
Sammy Dodds was one of the early founders of single pilot IFR operations.
A fantastic time in my life as I was starting my professional career which lasted 43 years with some great experiences.
Regards
Tmb
Funflight
The folk at Funflight told me that they had approached BAL to waive daily charges for their charity flights .
I just got the bill from BAL so they must have declined to support the charity.
I suppose this would be quite a surprize to you all knowing their generous nature.
I just got the bill from BAL so they must have declined to support the charity.
I suppose this would be quite a surprize to you all knowing their generous nature.
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From the website of Clamback & Hennessy
Clamback & Hennessy
Clamback & Hennessy
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So BAL are demanding 72k per annum rental for the hangar (does it include adjacent land?). I would be guessing but the hangar must be around 6-700 m2 so commercially, they pay around $100/sqm/annum.
To lease an industrial property that size in that area would be far more expensive, so C+H don't really have a lot to complain about. The world does not revolve around Aminta and Raymond, even though they might think it should.
To lease an industrial property that size in that area would be far more expensive, so C+H don't really have a lot to complain about. The world does not revolve around Aminta and Raymond, even though they might think it should.
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72k pa is around $1400 each and every week.
I don't know how many aircraft C&H have or what their total utilisation is., but just as a thought experiment, say they get 40 hours per week, which means that the rental alone represents a cost of about $35 per hour.
Now add maintanence, insurance (aircraft and hangar and workshop), wages, consumeables, and and and ....
I do have sympathy for their cause, because they were there long before BAL existed.
YSBK is still supposed to be an airport and not an industrial estate.
I don't know how many aircraft C&H have or what their total utilisation is., but just as a thought experiment, say they get 40 hours per week, which means that the rental alone represents a cost of about $35 per hour.
Now add maintanence, insurance (aircraft and hangar and workshop), wages, consumeables, and and and ....
I do have sympathy for their cause, because they were there long before BAL existed.
YSBK is still supposed to be an airport and not an industrial estate.
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I think the biggest issue Ray & Aminta have is that they've based their retirement of the fact the 20 year lease would have been rolled over & hence they would own the hangar for another 20 years & be paying a rate based on the value of undeveloped land. but now as BAL as decided they own the hangar & don't have to honor the orginal intention of the intintal contract,
their fleet consists of
6 x warriors (151 & 161's)
1 x 182Q
1 x BE-76
also in the hangar are a 182rg, baron & a bonza, the big hangar is on a seperate lease to the office buildings and smaller hangar
their fleet consists of
6 x warriors (151 & 161's)
1 x 182Q
1 x BE-76
also in the hangar are a 182rg, baron & a bonza, the big hangar is on a seperate lease to the office buildings and smaller hangar
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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It all sounds very similar to the goings on in the west.
Part of the governments privatization program. another nail in the coffin of GA.
Part of the governments privatization program. another nail in the coffin of GA.
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PP You base your comment on commercial rental. On that basis my son's football club should be paying a fortune for the use of their oval and when we are in hospital we should be paying $1000s a day commercial floorspace rental for our bed. The fact is everything in our society has its place or our society doesn't work. Hospitals are for the sick, sports facilities are for recreation and airports are for aircraft. If we treat everything as commercial we will have a very restricted and poor society.
Wunwing
Wunwing
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whilst agreeing with you Wunwing, the problem is privatization when property is in government hands it doesn't have to return a profit & may even be subsidized but as soon as you sell it off to some greedy
prick it becomes all about the $$ & maximizing profit
so a big round of appaluse for little Johnny & all the other state & federal governments who've sold off assests to make a quick buck
can't wait till the hospitals get sold off..... hell might as well rename the place while we're there... United States of Australia seeing as we're emulating the american's in so many ways
prick it becomes all about the $$ & maximizing profitso a big round of appaluse for little Johnny & all the other state & federal governments who've sold off assests to make a quick buck
can't wait till the hospitals get sold off..... hell might as well rename the place while we're there... United States of Australia seeing as we're emulating the american's in so many ways
Privates,
Please check you facts.
Firstly, in renting warehouses you don't rent the land and erect your own building.
Secondly, the actual (land only) rates at YSBK are now quite well ahead of (building on land) rates for comparable buildings in the area. Indeed, on offers around the area in the last few months, as the economic downturn bites, as much as 50% higher on YSBK.
Tootle pip!!
Please check you facts.
Firstly, in renting warehouses you don't rent the land and erect your own building.
Secondly, the actual (land only) rates at YSBK are now quite well ahead of (building on land) rates for comparable buildings in the area. Indeed, on offers around the area in the last few months, as the economic downturn bites, as much as 50% higher on YSBK.
Tootle pip!!
Moderator
PP, rents at airports can only be valued alongside other rents on the same airport, not the value of nearby industrial land, for the reasons already mentioned plus the fact that an aviation business cannot chose to move to a cheaper area. IT HAS to be at the airport.
There is a set procedure for disputing rent increases. I hired a commercial property valuer to do it on my behalf, afraid I just didn't have the stomach to sit in an office with our "landlords".
The rollover under the FAC leases was to compensate for the fact that the tenants could not get freehold. Otherwise, who would have invested in developing the airport? The tenants did the business development.
The world may not "revolve around Ray and Aminta", but we are at a point where important precedents are going to be set. If they lose everything to BAL then god help the rest of us. IF R and A get their hangar back, the industry has a chance against those who would close it all down for short term greed and the pendulum may swing the other way at last.
Who knows one day we may be able to get finance for development on our leases at federal airports again!!!!
PS this privatisation was Keating's Labor government's idea, so we can't expect Rudd's lot to care. How can they can say it is not thier concern, it is THIER responsibility to ensure that the airport leases are held by "fit and proper" people and they ARE accountable for this.
There is a set procedure for disputing rent increases. I hired a commercial property valuer to do it on my behalf, afraid I just didn't have the stomach to sit in an office with our "landlords".
The rollover under the FAC leases was to compensate for the fact that the tenants could not get freehold. Otherwise, who would have invested in developing the airport? The tenants did the business development.
The world may not "revolve around Ray and Aminta", but we are at a point where important precedents are going to be set. If they lose everything to BAL then god help the rest of us. IF R and A get their hangar back, the industry has a chance against those who would close it all down for short term greed and the pendulum may swing the other way at last.
Who knows one day we may be able to get finance for development on our leases at federal airports again!!!!
PS this privatisation was Keating's Labor government's idea, so we can't expect Rudd's lot to care. How can they can say it is not thier concern, it is THIER responsibility to ensure that the airport leases are held by "fit and proper" people and they ARE accountable for this.
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Memories
Thanks tmb,
we seem to be of the same vintage from BK. Other contacts you may remember were
Ken May and John Day running Navair FS yeah I know "MayDay"
Sam Dodds last saw him flying a AC690B for Bridge Oil and prior driving a PA23.
Like you retired after 44yrs and now wondering where all the time went!!!
Cheers
we seem to be of the same vintage from BK. Other contacts you may remember were
Ken May and John Day running Navair FS yeah I know "MayDay"
Sam Dodds last saw him flying a AC690B for Bridge Oil and prior driving a PA23.
Like you retired after 44yrs and now wondering where all the time went!!!
Cheers