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The Survival Thread

Old 21st Oct 2008, 10:23
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Excellent thread guys, particularly for us "newbies" who will be heading into the wild yonder sooner or later. Will be bookmarking this for future reference...keep the advice coming!
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Old 21st Oct 2008, 11:07
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I think perhaps I had better add to my last post seeing as my previous was too generic for 'DA' I don't want to think that newbies consider water not that important first up.
Obvioulsy if yr injured (bleeding etc.) that's yr number one priority & yes you could last 3 days without water but not protection under certain conditions, I agree there 'DA' . But my comments re water first etc was more aimed at a long term situation as in yr lost/stranded for what might be several days or even weeks. Shelter could already be there in the form of the damaged A/C so water is number one in that case so hence I listed shelter as No 2. My listed priorities would have been AFTER one had taken care of one self re injuries. If you crash in a remote area & yr fairly confident that somebody knows where you are & help isn't too far away yr imeadiate priority is to make sure yr healthy in the short term.
Look as long as yr prepared for the terrain yr flying over 90% is common sense. As someone said never leave the plane unless it's totally needed & then leave a trail a blind man could see.


CW
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Old 21st Oct 2008, 12:41
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What a great thread

I think most of what is bieng said here is very good.

As someone has already said however, all the gizmos in the world are no good if you have not invested a little training, reading and knowledge. There are many good books on Australian survival.
They are all good but I do recommend anything by (Maj) Les Hiddens (spelling) the "Bush tucker man" and the WA Police survial guide.

You can survive in most situations with out any special gear, but you will never last long without the most important survial tool you have, PMA.

Positive Mental Attitude


Do youself a favour and watch the movie Castaway (Tom Hanks) and the most recinent version of "lord of the Flies". But look at it from the point of view of What would I have done in the same circumstances?

Richo
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Old 21st Oct 2008, 17:15
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Flares

Most marine shops sell a handy compact flare kit.

Nice plastic case about 6 x 2.5 x .75 inches weighs 500 grams approx. Holds 8red flares and a firing pen - go to approx 300 feet.

Prices have probably gone up but last one I bought was approx $60
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Old 21st Oct 2008, 19:38
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Mr. Duck, I think you might want to check how those flares should be stored and carried on an aircraft if I were you.

May I recommend the GME 406 PLB with strobe and internal GPS? It sits jammed in the slot of my headphone bag along with the torch, fuel drain, pen and leatherman tool. Matches, compass and Garmin Fortrex 201 and spare ANR batteries inside. This goes everywhere every time.

The "big" bag comes out for longer trips with the maps, handheld VHF, hat, space blankets and other useful stuff, and of course at least half a dozen big bottles of water in the back somewhere.

P.S. Don't forget a pack of playing cards.

Last edited by Sunfish; 21st Oct 2008 at 19:50.
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Old 21st Oct 2008, 21:17
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Did anyone suggest a first aid course?
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Old 21st Oct 2008, 22:46
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I would be interested to know what items (other than water -we'll take that as read) people have in their survival kits or would consider to be essentials.
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Old 21st Oct 2008, 23:14
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May I recommend the GME 406 PLB with strobe and internal GPS? It sits jammed in the slot of my headphone bag
Perhaps worn around the neck, or somewhere on your person would be better. There may not always be time, or you may not have the presence of mind, to grab a bag. Just a thought....
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 00:52
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I carry 10 litres of water, a safety grab bag and GPS405Mhz PLB. I also carry a NextG phone with an external aerial. The range of next G with an external aerial is surprisingly good (especially at altitude).

Flight Safety magazine had a very good article on this a few years ago. I think the CASA website has a search function for the magazine.

We should also be monitoring 121.5 in cruise. Boyd Munro wrote a very good article on this a few years ago. Go to www.airsafety.com.au and search on 121.5.

If you read the survival books or spend time on the survival company websites, there is a big emphasis on hunting & fishing, etc. However in the case of aircraft, we're likely to be found within 3 days. So its all about water, getting comfortable, minor first aid and being found.

In most of outback Australia, I reckon the aeroplane will get on the ground more or less in tact. But the routes that I fly I reckon it would be at least overnight before anyone go to me. Something I read that seemed to make sense is that its important to kep a positive attitude (so you can help yourself be rescued) which in turn depends on being comfortable. Therefore small things like having a fire assume greater importance. Ditto having panadiene and bandaids. I'm not sure that I could realisticly deal with major trauma. I think the emphasis is on keeping myself (or a passenger) in a stable condition & comfortable while waiting for help.

During long outback legs, I have 121.5 on one radio and the other on area frequency. And rather than the old VFR adage about thinking about where you land, I think about what radio call would I make to best describe my position.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 01:25
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I think about what radio call would I make to best describe my position
Lat/Long (in whole degrees and minutes) off your GPS should do it!


Dr
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 01:48
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They are all good but I do recommend anything by (Maj) Les Hiddens (spelling) the "Bush tucker man" and the WA Police survial guide.
Brilliant series of books from les, including the history to see where others went wrong.
haven't seen the WA Police handbook for a while but found it after a brief search HERE (PDF 1.27Mb)
Print it out on A5 paper and stuff it in your navbag, mine is in AIP Folder after a bit of strategic hole punching.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 01:48
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Survival

(Some great points already listed here).

In the past, I've done a fair amount of survival training with my army unit, and have a few more to add:

1. Preparation. Tailor your survival kit to where you'll be going. (i.e. a survival kit for the Tasmanian remote area in July may be different to the Tanami desert in February)

2. PMA. Richo hit the nail right on the head with that one. There are plenty of survival stories out there where people survived through incredible hardships through their determination alone.

3. Know when you've found yourself in a "survival" situation. (Obviously, a forced landing in the middle of nowhere in the NT in summer is a survival situation from the outset. But other situations are not always obvious).

As a few people have mentioned, priorities are water, shelter, rescue and food. Not always in that order.

WATER:
Yes, you CAN survive for up to three days without water, but by the end of the second day you wont be doing much, and the last half of the third day you'll just be lying there.

The ERSA recommendation for the solar still is CRAP! Just try digging a 1m by 1m (and at least 50cm deep) hole in most parts of Australia! Our SAS survival instructor told us that you'll sweat out more water than you'll ever get using that method (He then got us to do it for proof)!.

Deaf mentioned:
The clear plastic bags are the type they use to line boxes of meat. Use them to cover and off and seal a bush, end of a tree branch etc. The leaves will get water from the soil and it condenses on the bag.
.

BINGO! Get the living tree/shrub/etc. to do the work for you.

Someone mentioned that food should be discouraged as you need water to digest it. This is not quite true, as the water used in the stomach for digestion will be reabsorbed in the colon, so the net water consumption during eating is very small.

RESCUE:
Very important! Almost as much as water! EPIRB's, ELT's, Smoky fires by day, strobe lights by dusk/night, fire by night, orange panels, mirrors, etc, are all good. And of course, if you're flying, Sarwatch, flight plans, and/or flight notes are your friends.

SHELTER, FOOD, etc:
Is also very important, as it will aid your survivability, as well as good for morale. Food IMHO is the least important. But food, like fire, is extremely good for morale (or PMA).

A few other points, esp. if you have passengers, or are surviving for a few days:

There are a lot of human dynamics in survival situations, and someone needs to take charge. You as the pilot are a logical first person to do this. If you are conducting passenger carrying flights over remote areas you might want to consider how you're going to organise the survival of yourself and your passengers. If you find yourself in a survival situation, you should work out a survival PLAN.

Boredom is another hazard. In most survival situations, there isn't much to do, and people get stir crazy very quickly (I've seen people do this in as little as four hours). Boredom is one of the main reasons why people leave the crash site for help.

Unless your crash site is visibile from help (e.g you can see a homestead from where you crashed) or there are fit people in your group who have their own EPIRP and are well provisioned, I can't think of a single reason to leave the crash site!

First Aid kits are as important as survival kits, IMHO. But should be a separate entity from the survival kit. Again, they should be tailored for the type of operation, as well as tailored for your own skill set.

So just "a few" thoughts right now. If I can find some references I'll post them.

Cheers, and stay safe.

DIVOSH!
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 02:40
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Go to your local library and look for a copy of a TV series that ran on the ABC from memory a while back called the bush mechanics.
It was a great series about surviving breakdowns in the bush with a bit of ingenuity from the greatest bush survivors of them all. From memory there was saplings used as leaf springs and windscreen wash pumps replacing fuel pumps. Maybe not helpful in aviation but an eye opener none the less.
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 14:55
  #34 (permalink)  
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Like Capt (where's) Wally, I am similiarly equipped, however I'm with Atlas and Tinnie - the immediate moments after the noise and chaos and while the dust is still swirling around or worse - the water rushing in - and possibly you're upside down - immediate survival versus longer term (PMA)survival always gets me thinking long and hard.

If the worse case exists - no LJ on (under my seat), didn't get the survival grab bag (under the seat at the emergency exit), didn't grab the personal ELT (behind my head) - then in my pocket with the prayer wheel/calculator is a small sealed sandwich bag containing:

a few waterproof matches.
a thin pencil torch.
a few caps of Nurofen.
a very thin whistle from an old life jacket.
a thin signal mirror
a couple of glucose lollies
and....

a couple of yellow and a red balloons.

As a person who wastes many a day chasing barra and anything pelagic and full of attitude, I have watched many a balloon used to float bait off the shore disappear over the horizon. And that's the realization - those balloons stand out like the proverbial in the water and over an incredible distance.

Plus may be handy to use to wave around when most of my LJ is submerged or just to rest on.

If nothing else what is in my pocket will help if I have absolutely nothing else with me for the next few hours due to ending up in the the worse situation and losing everything - even my mind for a few moments.

All of it fits in my pocket, very light and I never know it's there.

Just as an aside, and it might be just me that ponders on this, but sometimes I observe pilots putting themselves into difficult survival situations because of the ease at which we can 'DIRECT TO' nowadays and the 'time/fuel' benefit creeping into our lives.

Before GPS I can remember more legs added to the trip because of the need to include helpful visual features (obviously this is not always the case - some passage over tiger country comes with the job) when available, and this would sometimes indirectly bring into the picture more opportunity for receiving assistance - roads, tracks, homesteads, bores etc.

Not intended as a drift - just hope that a little extra thought goes into the consequence of 'direct to' now taking one 'direct to' a very difficult environment in which to survive in.

Oh forgot - select the ELT switch on (if so equipped) while you're in the air for a few minutes.

Last edited by Muffinman; 22nd Oct 2008 at 15:05. Reason: survival at spelling - 3 minutes!
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Old 22nd Oct 2008, 21:43
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'Muff" an excellent idea with the balloons Some people are just too smart yr other suggestions are great also but few would go to that much trouble if flying on the odd time over water etc.
So if I where to be involved ina search for "Muff' & I saw coloured balloons down there amongst a sea of nothing I'd say to me other rescurers....hey look it's 'Muff' having a party bolloons & all !




CW
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 08:48
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Great thread guys here is what i carry with me.....

410 SHOTGUN......You never know where you may come down. Very handy to hunt food with especially when you cant be assed aiming. Or what if you came down around carrum downs- you would need to fend off the locals until rescue came.

FIREWORKS......Ballons wont do squat. If i'm wanting to be found i want to make damn sure i get found. Your local chinese shop can hook you up.

SLAB OF EUROPEAN BEER.......A mans gotta drink, and again if i came down in currum downs at least the locals wouldnt try to take anything that wasnt VB

AIRCRAFT MAGAZINES.....To wipe my arse with

OTHER MAGAZINES....Might be a while until i see a woman in the flesh

COMPUTER AND GENERATOR.....How could i survive without pprune, hearing the latest from the DR and Capt wally, jaba and all the other aeroplane obsessed kids.

14 MAN CANVAS TENT WITH STEEL POLES.....Weight aint a consideration when it comes to comfort. You can build what you like out of plant matter but dont come crying to me when you have malaria.


19 DIFFERENT TYPES OF GARMIN GPS UNITS......So i know to the meter, and in color where i am.


PORTABLE COOKTOP........So i can cook the spoils of my hunt in style.

QUINTREX TINNY WITH 140HP MERCURY OUTBOARD......In case of a water ditching. And you want something fast.

MY BONANZA SOCIETY PARAFINALIA.......So at least when the rescuers find my rotting carcass they will know i was important.

All of this fits quite nicely in the V35B along with full fuel and 9 adults cruising at 405 knots in STYLE.


Milky
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 09:09
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Yeah!!
Beat that one Doc...
Just when i thought what a great thread this is and should be taken seriously... Then comes Mr Milk
Onya Milky

PS. I always carry an umbrella in case the rain tries to spoil my fiery crash.

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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 09:20
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Very funny Mr Milk....hahahahah, just one thing though, with all that 'stuff' around you when you crash why would you want to be rescued esspecially if yr married ! Am sure the Dr will find sumfin' ya 4got.
Oh btw, take a shovel too, you can use it to dig yourself a hole when you run our of supplies
Probably a Sat phone would be very handy if found stranded, but at the cost per call am sure some people would rather die of thirst than pay their phone bill!

CW
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 09:25
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Geez Wally when was the last time you went bush? Surely if you had to do a forced landing, you would just walk to the nearest house and knock on the door...
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Old 23rd Oct 2008, 09:33
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Yeah a sat phone would come in handy for all those 1900 numbers in the magazines.

Not stupid enough to be married mate.

My only bride has a chrome spinner, a continental 520 and a v-tail
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