Gfs Sold
Thread Starter
Gfs Sold
Recent media reports have it that the well known flight training firm of General Flying Services has been sold to a UK company.
The report mentioned that while GFS had trained some 350 pilots in a year the new owners planned to train 500, or was that report wrong?
An interesting move and change of the local flight training scene.
The report mentioned that while GFS had trained some 350 pilots in a year the new owners planned to train 500, or was that report wrong?
An interesting move and change of the local flight training scene.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wherever the job takes me...
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Love him or hate him, I take my hat off to RC. When thinking of the age old joke "how do you make a small fortune from aviation...", he'd be one of a very select group of people that have actually made more money out of GA than what he put into it.
As for his minions working tirelessly at the coalface, well that's another story...
As for his minions working tirelessly at the coalface, well that's another story...
he'd be one of a very select group of people that have actually made more money out of GA than what he put into it.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Oxford Aviation Academy (“OAA”) has acquired General Flying Services (“GFS”), the leading ab initio airline pilot training organisation in Australia ..." blah blah blah.
See link
General Flying Services Home Page
See link
General Flying Services Home Page
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: About
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Succesful business?
RC made money by paying his instructors well below award, charging them a training fee which he took out of the already criminal low pay and strung them along for years telling them that they would get into Qantas. To add to this, he charges the students well above market rates for aircraft hire because all these kids are told if you do your flying training here you'll get into Qantas.
He only started paying the award recently because I suspect the Oxford Academy went over his books and asked how he can pay an instructor $12/h and get away with it!
Oxford is owned by SAS so my prediction is we will start seeing alot of European students soon as it's much cheaper to train them here.
He only started paying the award recently because I suspect the Oxford Academy went over his books and asked how he can pay an instructor $12/h and get away with it!
Oxford is owned by SAS so my prediction is we will start seeing alot of European students soon as it's much cheaper to train them here.
I thought SAS are on the brink of going under? In their corporate structure diagram (oxford academy) it indicates SAS academy as a subsiduary.
As far as charging above market rates for services I think he is one of the few that charges an acceptable, sustainable rate for his equipment.
It is good to see another large training facility to be based in Australia, especially out of Moorabbin/Point Cook, two fields which need a sustainable large player to help secure their future.
As far as charging above market rates for services I think he is one of the few that charges an acceptable, sustainable rate for his equipment.
It is good to see another large training facility to be based in Australia, especially out of Moorabbin/Point Cook, two fields which need a sustainable large player to help secure their future.
AustralianMade
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Out in the weather!
Age: 54
Posts: 917
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
crank1000,
That was my observation too. Well over AUD$100K for their CPL course and there were some extras in addition to that!
RC made money by paying his instructors well below award, charging them a training fee which he took out of the already criminal low pay and strung them along for years telling them that they would get into Qantas. To add to this, he charges the students well above market rates for aircraft hire because all these kids are told if you do your flying training here you'll get into Qantas.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is good to see another large training facility to be based in Australia, especially out of Moorabbin/Point Cook
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: About
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A large player?
YMMB already has enough sustainable large players. There are enough schools with ongoing overseas work to keep MB ticking over for a long time yet. As for PC, GFS already has that sewn up for years to come.
A37537, Oh how right you are!
I think with the amount of schools operating in Vic with overseas student contracts is set to rise again. SE asia plans 20 to 40 years ahead so I dont think a little downturn in the economy will stop them coming. They will only see it as an opportunity to drive down the price per student.
A37537, Oh how right you are!
I think with the amount of schools operating in Vic with overseas student contracts is set to rise again. SE asia plans 20 to 40 years ahead so I dont think a little downturn in the economy will stop them coming. They will only see it as an opportunity to drive down the price per student.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: victoria
Age: 37
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GFS Interviewer: Welcome mr povopilot, have a seat. now what sort of airliner do you want to fly?
povopilot: Ah what was the question again, I was distracted while playing spot the australian citizen.
GFS Interviewer: Why do you want to be a pilot?
povopilot: Well mr interviewer it has been a dream and ambition since day one.
GFS Interviewer: What do you think is the hardest part of flying?
povopilot: Well sir never having flown an airplane i would say trying to fund your training and then getting a job once you have completed it.
GFS Interviewer: Seriously now what do you think is the hardest part of flying?
povopilot: I just gave you my answer, Wait a minute just how much does this course cost?
povopilot: It cost's how f**king much!!!!?. For crying out loud I should be interviewing you, and you should be telling me why i should give you liberia's deficit to teach me how to fly. I could do it for half that at a country airfield.
GFS interviewer: Yes but we train Qantas cadets and almost all of our students fly for the airlines now. Can you tell me who Chuck Yeager is?
povopilot: I could, but i would rather you tell me where the exit is.
Never heard back from them.
Not knocking them too much,i'm sure they do a great job training Indian's to do circuits that actually leave the CTR - Does that count as X-country time?
povopilot.
povopilot: Ah what was the question again, I was distracted while playing spot the australian citizen.
GFS Interviewer: Why do you want to be a pilot?
povopilot: Well mr interviewer it has been a dream and ambition since day one.
GFS Interviewer: What do you think is the hardest part of flying?
povopilot: Well sir never having flown an airplane i would say trying to fund your training and then getting a job once you have completed it.
GFS Interviewer: Seriously now what do you think is the hardest part of flying?
povopilot: I just gave you my answer, Wait a minute just how much does this course cost?
povopilot: It cost's how f**king much!!!!?. For crying out loud I should be interviewing you, and you should be telling me why i should give you liberia's deficit to teach me how to fly. I could do it for half that at a country airfield.
GFS interviewer: Yes but we train Qantas cadets and almost all of our students fly for the airlines now. Can you tell me who Chuck Yeager is?
povopilot: I could, but i would rather you tell me where the exit is.
Never heard back from them.
Not knocking them too much,i'm sure they do a great job training Indian's to do circuits that actually leave the CTR - Does that count as X-country time?
povopilot.
Who do they train
Hey Povopilot,
Who do they train?? Indians?? Well you seem to think that you know everything about it, get your facts right fella!! I suppose you here this crap from the school you train at. Whatever!!
Who do they train?? Indians?? Well you seem to think that you know everything about it, get your facts right fella!! I suppose you here this crap from the school you train at. Whatever!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well this is an interesting development.
OAA is considered by many in the UK to be the 'Gold' standard for integrated training. However for their ad-initio APPFirst Officer course the cost is approximately 75,000 UKP. In terms of Australian dollars, that is about Au$ 170,000. This cost covers the training alone and does not cover accomodation / meals etc.
Whilst there are some airline cadets in Oxford, UK (who usually self sponsor anyway) most of the other budding pilots are self sponsored and use specially tailored finance to facilitate this.
OAA like other similar companies such as CTC have historically had secured finance deals set up with one or two high street banks. OAA's deal is with the HSBC bank.
The deal is the budding pilot approaches HSBC with a personal business plan detailing how with this expensive training and the kudos of training at OAA the chances of landing an airline job are maximised and therefore the loan should be considered a good investment. The Plan they produce is based on a template given to them by OAA, and after a brief interview and the lodging of your parents house as security - Voila 50,000UKP towards your training costs.
Guess what! - With all of the credit troubles, yesterday all of the banks offerring finance for pilot training have withdrawn their schemes. I wonder how many budding pilots will now be able to afford to sign up with OAA given that they are going to have to find the cash by other means? I would expect throughput will fall dramatically.
Compared to the UK, pilot training in Australia is considerably more competitive - I just hope that this crowd has not based it's purchase on the assumption that it can come over here and start charging similar charges to the UK, which with lower costs will result in more profit in order to balance the shortfall that it may start making in the UK.
I am sure we will all watch with interest!!
OAA is considered by many in the UK to be the 'Gold' standard for integrated training. However for their ad-initio APPFirst Officer course the cost is approximately 75,000 UKP. In terms of Australian dollars, that is about Au$ 170,000. This cost covers the training alone and does not cover accomodation / meals etc.
Whilst there are some airline cadets in Oxford, UK (who usually self sponsor anyway) most of the other budding pilots are self sponsored and use specially tailored finance to facilitate this.
OAA like other similar companies such as CTC have historically had secured finance deals set up with one or two high street banks. OAA's deal is with the HSBC bank.
The deal is the budding pilot approaches HSBC with a personal business plan detailing how with this expensive training and the kudos of training at OAA the chances of landing an airline job are maximised and therefore the loan should be considered a good investment. The Plan they produce is based on a template given to them by OAA, and after a brief interview and the lodging of your parents house as security - Voila 50,000UKP towards your training costs.
Guess what! - With all of the credit troubles, yesterday all of the banks offerring finance for pilot training have withdrawn their schemes. I wonder how many budding pilots will now be able to afford to sign up with OAA given that they are going to have to find the cash by other means? I would expect throughput will fall dramatically.
Compared to the UK, pilot training in Australia is considerably more competitive - I just hope that this crowd has not based it's purchase on the assumption that it can come over here and start charging similar charges to the UK, which with lower costs will result in more profit in order to balance the shortfall that it may start making in the UK.
I am sure we will all watch with interest!!
AustralianMade
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Out in the weather!
Age: 54
Posts: 917
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
povo, very funny mate!
Actually this is the exact same experience I had with them. I attended an interview with them, where I interviewed them, and did a TIF in a C172 at YMMB. The pilot who took me for the TIF was a really nice bloke who had recently graduated from GFS - after spending $100K - who advised me to find another career if I wanted to avoid going broke. Remember this is one of their employees and recent graduate. I asked him why and he told me he was being paid $19K per year - and this after spending $100K.
I really appreciated his honesty and that he was not afraid to speak his mind, however I was not turned off becoming a pilot, rather, I was turned off the big metro flying schools like GFS.
My local schools here in Albury offer a full course, CPL/MECIR, for around $60K. Heaps of CAVOK, little traffic in the circuit and a training area the size of Belgium!
ALLICEDUP, check your own facts mate, povo is spot on.
Pot and kettle, the management at GFS surely dished up a bunch of crap (and lies) about country flying schools during my enquiries. Have I seen you defending GFS before? What is your association with them?
Actually this is the exact same experience I had with them. I attended an interview with them, where I interviewed them, and did a TIF in a C172 at YMMB. The pilot who took me for the TIF was a really nice bloke who had recently graduated from GFS - after spending $100K - who advised me to find another career if I wanted to avoid going broke. Remember this is one of their employees and recent graduate. I asked him why and he told me he was being paid $19K per year - and this after spending $100K.
I really appreciated his honesty and that he was not afraid to speak his mind, however I was not turned off becoming a pilot, rather, I was turned off the big metro flying schools like GFS.
My local schools here in Albury offer a full course, CPL/MECIR, for around $60K. Heaps of CAVOK, little traffic in the circuit and a training area the size of Belgium!
ALLICEDUP, check your own facts mate, povo is spot on.
I suppose you here this crap from the school you train at. Whatever!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: About
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does it matter?
Alicedup,
Does it matter that povo didn't know the nationality of GFS's airline contract students?
Last time I looked they were Chinese, Taiwanese and Vietnamese.
Do you know how much the Airlines of these countries pay per student?
Come on, how much do you know?
Does it matter that povo didn't know the nationality of GFS's airline contract students?
Last time I looked they were Chinese, Taiwanese and Vietnamese.
Do you know how much the Airlines of these countries pay per student?
Come on, how much do you know?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: victoria
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can see both sides of the story. After training at the above mentioned about 3 years ago (when fuel prices were a bit more reasonable) I really couldn't have been happier with my training, I felt like a customer at all times. A lot of the time the students that complained about being part of the sausage production line were the students that had little or no drive to go far, and they are still floundering around to this day. Go figure
If I had my time again I wouldn't change the majority of things, but now being a tad wiser I see a few things that I would have definitely adjusted to save a bit more coin.
I spent just over $72,000 which got me my CPL, MECIR, NVFR, ATPL Theory courses and an Advanced Diploma. So not far off that $60,000 that someone mentioned, remembering that a lot of the country flying schools do not teach ATPL Theory, leaving students to go to somewhere like Maroochy and fork out up to 5k just to get those subjects. Also after working with and hiring new pilots at my last job, I found that the SOP's taught at GFS were second to none and were not evident in any of those pilots
So with that pointed out, I think ALICE and povo you should both open your other eye and see the pro's/con's of both. Each to their own.
GFS lead to my first job, something that another flying school most likely could not offer, and before anyone says anything, I did not Instruct.
If I had my time again I wouldn't change the majority of things, but now being a tad wiser I see a few things that I would have definitely adjusted to save a bit more coin.
I spent just over $72,000 which got me my CPL, MECIR, NVFR, ATPL Theory courses and an Advanced Diploma. So not far off that $60,000 that someone mentioned, remembering that a lot of the country flying schools do not teach ATPL Theory, leaving students to go to somewhere like Maroochy and fork out up to 5k just to get those subjects. Also after working with and hiring new pilots at my last job, I found that the SOP's taught at GFS were second to none and were not evident in any of those pilots
So with that pointed out, I think ALICE and povo you should both open your other eye and see the pro's/con's of both. Each to their own.
GFS lead to my first job, something that another flying school most likely could not offer, and before anyone says anything, I did not Instruct.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yellow Brick Road
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update on OAA
I log onto GFS's old website and get redirected to blurb from OAA.
What's happening there ? Are there plans to upgrade to big jet courses for the airlines ? How does it tie up with OAA's operations in the rest of the region ?
Or is it just business as usual at Moorabbin but under a different name ? I wish they'd get their website back up and running ...
What's happening there ? Are there plans to upgrade to big jet courses for the airlines ? How does it tie up with OAA's operations in the rest of the region ?
Or is it just business as usual at Moorabbin but under a different name ? I wish they'd get their website back up and running ...
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South of the equator
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey
business as usual...more international courses, a few more changes like every other year and hopefully some new and better facilities, but thats whats been confirmed so far, standby for more.
business as usual...more international courses, a few more changes like every other year and hopefully some new and better facilities, but thats whats been confirmed so far, standby for more.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South of the equator
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True, we dont have JAA, but its not difficult to study. Its basically our CPL and ATPL combined, so if you got access to some training materials and do australian exams, convertings not that hard. Like i said, no more confirmations for a while.
newagebird
newagebird
Is this the original Moorabin Aviation Academy started by Ken Sharp and operating from a caravan before he renamed it General flying Services and got himself a building way back in the late 60's early 70's?