Garmin 100 GPS IFR Legal?
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Garmin 100 GPS IFR Legal?
IFR turbo-prop charter equipped with Garmin 100 GPS. Is it legal to plan IFR STARS and SIDS, direct routing etc based upon this type of GPS? Or should flights be flown on ERC and TAC routing using conventional navaids with Garmin 100 used as a back up only. Are Garmin 100 GPS sets VFR only?
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From our friends at the SAAA. They have a good plain english description of what is required:
GPS See AIP Gen section 1.5. GPS for IFR use must comply with TSO. A GPS compliant with TSO C129a2 can be used for enroute and terminal area navigation. C129a1 can conduct non-precision approaches. However to take advantage of lower weather minima a VOR or ADF need to be onboard and at the destination. See the AIP for details of operational and weather requirements for destinations and alternate airports with and without ground aids.
GPS compliant with the new TSO C146a are WAAS upgradeable and are expected to be approved for sole means of navigation for enroute navigation and also (in future) for precision approaches. CASA staff have confirmed that the US WAAS correction signal does cover Australia, and they will progressively introduce precision GPS approaches in the future.
Now just check which part applies to your equipment.....
GPS See AIP Gen section 1.5. GPS for IFR use must comply with TSO. A GPS compliant with TSO C129a2 can be used for enroute and terminal area navigation. C129a1 can conduct non-precision approaches. However to take advantage of lower weather minima a VOR or ADF need to be onboard and at the destination. See the AIP for details of operational and weather requirements for destinations and alternate airports with and without ground aids.
GPS compliant with the new TSO C146a are WAAS upgradeable and are expected to be approved for sole means of navigation for enroute navigation and also (in future) for precision approaches. CASA staff have confirmed that the US WAAS correction signal does cover Australia, and they will progressively introduce precision GPS approaches in the future.
Now just check which part applies to your equipment.....
VH-XXX
Are you sure, can you confirm that?
My information is that there needs to be a ground station in this part of the world to broadcast a correction signal to a communication satellite in order for WAAS to work here, (OZ or NZ).
When I spoke with Airways NZ some time back they were not going to install such a station. I was told by someone else that one ground station located on the Australian east coast, say near Sydney, would cover both countries.
I have heard that ASA are being typically Australian, (viz a viz the 200 MHz DME), and were going to develop a GPS precision approach system that enabled them to charge for the service and then sell it to the rest of the world. Mind you we Kiwis aren’t much better when it come to things like this.
I suspect Airways NZ were also looking for a way to charge for precision GPS approaches.
Unfortunately WAAS does not allow organisations like ASA and Airways to charge a fee, so they don’t have any incentive to put in a ground station.
What it needs is for both regulators to grow some balls and make ASA and Airways NZ provide WAAS to enhance safety.
CASA staff have confirmed that the US WAAS correction signal does cover Australia, and they will progressively introduce precision GPS approaches in the future.
My information is that there needs to be a ground station in this part of the world to broadcast a correction signal to a communication satellite in order for WAAS to work here, (OZ or NZ).
When I spoke with Airways NZ some time back they were not going to install such a station. I was told by someone else that one ground station located on the Australian east coast, say near Sydney, would cover both countries.
I have heard that ASA are being typically Australian, (viz a viz the 200 MHz DME), and were going to develop a GPS precision approach system that enabled them to charge for the service and then sell it to the rest of the world. Mind you we Kiwis aren’t much better when it come to things like this.
I suspect Airways NZ were also looking for a way to charge for precision GPS approaches.
Unfortunately WAAS does not allow organisations like ASA and Airways to charge a fee, so they don’t have any incentive to put in a ground station.
What it needs is for both regulators to grow some balls and make ASA and Airways NZ provide WAAS to enhance safety.
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Nope on the WAAS for Australia at the moment.
Right now, if you have a WAAS enabled receiver you should turn the WAAS option OFF as it can seriously degrade the performance on the few occasions that it gets enough sattellites to derive a common solution.
The problem is that if you are steaming along with eight or nine sats firmly in lock (very common now) for the most part WAAS will not see sufficient sats to derive a solution and simply ignore the corrections.
However, occasionally at certain times of the day, the geometry is such that four common sats are visible and when that happens, the remaining non common in view satellites are dropped out of the solution.
That leaves you with only four used satellites that have very poor geometry and a very poor solution due to the high PDOP. While RAID should drop the WHOLE GPS out under those circumstances, it isn't very nice if you're in the middle of an approach.
As for the Garmin100, as much as I like them, I would NEVER use them for IFR (it's not legal anyway, by any stretch of the imagination) because they have no health flagging of bad sats and CAN be several kilometres in error if a "bad" sat is used. Have seen it happen.
Also, they're only a single channel unit and have to multiplex between the sats for the ranges and will never be as accurate as the newer GPS units.
And was the question a wind-up ?
Right now, if you have a WAAS enabled receiver you should turn the WAAS option OFF as it can seriously degrade the performance on the few occasions that it gets enough sattellites to derive a common solution.
The problem is that if you are steaming along with eight or nine sats firmly in lock (very common now) for the most part WAAS will not see sufficient sats to derive a solution and simply ignore the corrections.
However, occasionally at certain times of the day, the geometry is such that four common sats are visible and when that happens, the remaining non common in view satellites are dropped out of the solution.
That leaves you with only four used satellites that have very poor geometry and a very poor solution due to the high PDOP. While RAID should drop the WHOLE GPS out under those circumstances, it isn't very nice if you're in the middle of an approach.
As for the Garmin100, as much as I like them, I would NEVER use them for IFR (it's not legal anyway, by any stretch of the imagination) because they have no health flagging of bad sats and CAN be several kilometres in error if a "bad" sat is used. Have seen it happen.
Also, they're only a single channel unit and have to multiplex between the sats for the ranges and will never be as accurate as the newer GPS units.
And was the question a wind-up ?
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zeebee
of course it's a wind-up.
If the person asking the question can plan for GPS approaches and GPS enroute, they have completed a course of training as per the CAOs.
They would know, therefore, that the set must be TSO129/146
If the person asking the question can plan for GPS approaches and GPS enroute, they have completed a course of training as per the CAOs.
They would know, therefore, that the set must be TSO129/146
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My quote came from here:
SAAA - Sports Aircraft Association of Australia - Builders of Experimental Aircraft
To date, their information has been very accurate for me. The guy that wrote it is very clever and trolls the relevant CAO's and CAR's etc. I'd drop him an email to clear it up because I'm certain he wouldn't write that if it wasn't true!
I don't care if it's a wind up - it's all about sharing valuable information and potentially helping someone out which in turn may one day save a life or two.
SAAA - Sports Aircraft Association of Australia - Builders of Experimental Aircraft
To date, their information has been very accurate for me. The guy that wrote it is very clever and trolls the relevant CAO's and CAR's etc. I'd drop him an email to clear it up because I'm certain he wouldn't write that if it wasn't true!
I don't care if it's a wind up - it's all about sharing valuable information and potentially helping someone out which in turn may one day save a life or two.
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To date, their information has been very accurate for me. The guy that wrote it is very clever and trolls the relevant CAO's and CAR's etc. I'd drop him an email to clear it up because I'm certain he wouldn't write that if it wasn't true!
Your source is quoting CASA and the information he has been given is wrong.
As for the wind-up, I guess it does have the effect of reminding people that they should be using TSO'd equipment, but if a turbine IFR charter pilot doesn't know that....Well.....
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but if a turbine IFR charter pilot doesn't know that....Well.....
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100's & handhelds.
It is a saad day when 100's and handhelds, (velcro on top of eyebrow) are used as sole means nav, incl home grown approaches especially in high speed turbines!!!
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I would have thought all the back up batteries in the Garmin and Pronav 100 would be well and truly U/S by now and the units really unreliable, anyone who relies on one of these VFR is plain mad and if using it in IMC plain crazy.
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The venerable old Garmin 100 still seems to pop up in some surprisingly sophisticated aircraft as a back up unit. Perhaps because it is one of the best VFR GPS's around.
I love em so much I've got 3 of them, alas my original died on an east west flight the other day, it will be replaced by unit #2 and the old one buried with my favourite old dog
As much as I love them I wouldn't set off without the back up handheld, they are as T28D said getting old.
I love em so much I've got 3 of them, alas my original died on an east west flight the other day, it will be replaced by unit #2 and the old one buried with my favourite old dog
As much as I love them I wouldn't set off without the back up handheld, they are as T28D said getting old.
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And if the best nav equip in a turbine IFR charter aircraft is a Garmin 100...... Well .... (Remind me not buy a ticket with them.)
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In that case better not fly with a well known certain night freight operator using twin engine turbo-props...
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Having listened to the odd interesting night exchanges with ASA from whom I think you mean, don't worry, I wont! Amazing to think that a $1.5 million turbo prop could be navigating using a 1991 GPS, probably with the original database, that would be hard pushed to get $50 on ebay these days don't you think?
If they're still working OK, there's no real reason to chuck them away as they'll probly continue to steam away indefinately.
There's a lot older (approved) ADF equipment in IFR use and they have moving parts not to mention myriads of cables and mostly dodgy connectors that get exposed to water, dust and God knows what else.
That said, it's a game person (read stupid) who trusts the G100 in a full on IFR environment. (aside from the legal connotations)
I repeat, I have seen one in Scotland indicate a position that was 12 klms in error for about half an hour until the erroneous satellite causing the error disappeared from view.
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navigating using a 1991 GPS, probably with the original database
Respect it for what it is (a secondary reference), and nothing more, where is the problem?
the best nav equip in a turbine IFR charter aircraft is a Garmin 100
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Respect it for what it is (a secondary reference), and nothing more, where is the problem?
A malfunctioning GPS led a pilot to believe his light plane was on-course until it smashed into a ridge near Benalla killing all six people on board, a coronial inquest into the 2004 tragedy has heard.
'The Age faulty GPS led to plane crash'
