CASA Is Watching You Up North!
How you know CASA FOI's are at your local aerodrome conducting ramp checks etc:
1. Normally a twin engine aircraft will arrive in the circuit area unannounced because the FOI flying forget to broadcast on that CTAF thingy, or used the wrong frequency,
2. FOI most likely will fly some strange circuit direction that does not appear in the ERSA
3. Centre will be calling some aircraft trying to get them to cancel SAR ,
4. Ramp Checks will only be conducted between 9am and 4.30 pm, and not between the hours of 11.45 am and 13.15 pm to allow for lunch break etc,
5. Just remember most CASA FOI's are good blokes who are just doing their job, but unfortunately a few are legends in their own lunch boxes or couldn't hold a job down in GA, or just like to be smart p****ks or have a high opinion of themselves.
1. Normally a twin engine aircraft will arrive in the circuit area unannounced because the FOI flying forget to broadcast on that CTAF thingy, or used the wrong frequency,
2. FOI most likely will fly some strange circuit direction that does not appear in the ERSA
3. Centre will be calling some aircraft trying to get them to cancel SAR ,
4. Ramp Checks will only be conducted between 9am and 4.30 pm, and not between the hours of 11.45 am and 13.15 pm to allow for lunch break etc,
5. Just remember most CASA FOI's are good blokes who are just doing their job, but unfortunately a few are legends in their own lunch boxes or couldn't hold a job down in GA, or just like to be smart p****ks or have a high opinion of themselves.
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Don't think i have ever met 2 FOI's who could agree on the same interpetation of the regs.
Its a boys club and when they choose to make things personal, well that really gets up my nose...
Oxygen thieves the lot of em..
Its a boys club and when they choose to make things personal, well that really gets up my nose...
Oxygen thieves the lot of em..
SIUYA,
I was not aware that any bubble in the compass made it U/S, I have on several occasions by different engineers been told otherwise, however as you have a reference to a CAO I will just work of the engineers having a differing opinion of the regs then CASA.
As for asking the Inspector for his hrs, no I did not ask, he just told me. As for being sarcastic about his comments, to me at the time it like having someone tell you to keep your wings level in order to fly straight and level, yes it was advise, yes it is useful, however not exactly appropriate for me. In hind sight I will concede that the inspector may not have known my experience and was making his own judgment. (Note: I am not claiming to know all, just enough to keep from hitting the ground to hard, and generally arriving on time).
I was never audited again because after that event I have avoided with great care having to deal with CASA. The several times I have conversed with them they simply affirmed my opinion (perhaps with the exception of 1).
If they had really wanted to help out and get a feel for the industry they where trying to police then perhaps actually having been it themselves fist may have been a good start.
I was not aware that any bubble in the compass made it U/S, I have on several occasions by different engineers been told otherwise, however as you have a reference to a CAO I will just work of the engineers having a differing opinion of the regs then CASA.
As for asking the Inspector for his hrs, no I did not ask, he just told me. As for being sarcastic about his comments, to me at the time it like having someone tell you to keep your wings level in order to fly straight and level, yes it was advise, yes it is useful, however not exactly appropriate for me. In hind sight I will concede that the inspector may not have known my experience and was making his own judgment. (Note: I am not claiming to know all, just enough to keep from hitting the ground to hard, and generally arriving on time).
I was never audited again because after that event I have avoided with great care having to deal with CASA. The several times I have conversed with them they simply affirmed my opinion (perhaps with the exception of 1).
If they had really wanted to help out and get a feel for the industry they where trying to police then perhaps actually having been it themselves fist may have been a good start.
Last edited by rmcdonal; 26th Jun 2008 at 10:54. Reason: Remove Foot, insert shoe
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MCDONAL-Tailwheel- or any moderator
Next time CASA advertise and FOI position have a look at the experience requirements and you will be surprised to see that they are required to have extensive industry experience and contrary to some opinions even the ex-military guys have considerable civilian experience.
I just wonder why you can't mention a individual or organisations name in a questionably disparaging manner without incurring the wrath of the moderators yet it is open slather on the regulator. Don't you think that one day they may get a bit fed up with the garbage that is let loose here and take a class action? Seems to me to be a bit of a double standard being applied.
I just wonder why you can't mention a individual or organisations name in a questionably disparaging manner without incurring the wrath of the moderators yet it is open slather on the regulator. Don't you think that one day they may get a bit fed up with the garbage that is let loose here and take a class action? Seems to me to be a bit of a double standard being applied.
You must be wearing your rose coloured glasses Flying-Spike, or you moved to the dark side?
CASA/CAA/DOT/DCA has always been a closed shop jobs for mates.
I came a number individual's that basically came out of the RAF/RAAF/RN/RAN/Army and straight into a job as a FOI's, probably in reality there GA time was done when converting their licences etc and a few couldn't pass the Australian SCPL/ATPL so they went and did FAA ATPL.
CASA/CAA/DOT/DCA has always been a closed shop jobs for mates.
I came a number individual's that basically came out of the RAF/RAAF/RN/RAN/Army and straight into a job as a FOI's, probably in reality there GA time was done when converting their licences etc and a few couldn't pass the Australian SCPL/ATPL so they went and did FAA ATPL.
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Stationair 8
No rose coloured glasses, I just know enough about CASA. As you know I had a fair bit to do with flying ops people when I was flying for a living and was an emloyee of the CAA before I went flying.
In the not too distant past there were a lot of ex-military types that did have little if any civilian experience but there is a definite shift away from that now. So much of a shift that a lot have left CASA because they are uncomfortable with the change. You will probably see a lot of different faces doing ramp checks now and, I believe, a bit of a different attitude towards the job by the inspectorate. This isn't to say that there isn't a need to enforce the regulations but that the emphasis is on a safe outcome.
As for the "dark side". It's all peace, light and happiness where I am!
In the not too distant past there were a lot of ex-military types that did have little if any civilian experience but there is a definite shift away from that now. So much of a shift that a lot have left CASA because they are uncomfortable with the change. You will probably see a lot of different faces doing ramp checks now and, I believe, a bit of a different attitude towards the job by the inspectorate. This isn't to say that there isn't a need to enforce the regulations but that the emphasis is on a safe outcome.
As for the "dark side". It's all peace, light and happiness where I am!
Had a FOI once in a ramp check who didn't know what a Landing Weight Limited TOW was! He tried to get stuck into me about it, wasted about 10 minutes explaining that if we took off at the MTOW the aircraft would land overweight
Unbelievable
Unbelievable
The Gold Standard in Useless, Inefficient, Hypocritical Regulation.
Stationair 8 and Rotary Man, yep I agree with you guys.
Every FOI I've ever dealt with has had his own interpretation of the Regs that they're supposed to be enforcing. This has lead in every instance to an attitude of "what I say goes", and you couldn't talk to 'em at all. None of 'em showed any interest in meaningful safety whatsoever. My favorite write-up was rusty screws in the tailcone of a C210...
So the Regs are sh!t, well glory-be, guess who's responsible for them too.
Doc (post #19), you got it right except for the "C" part...
CR.
Every FOI I've ever dealt with has had his own interpretation of the Regs that they're supposed to be enforcing. This has lead in every instance to an attitude of "what I say goes", and you couldn't talk to 'em at all. None of 'em showed any interest in meaningful safety whatsoever. My favorite write-up was rusty screws in the tailcone of a C210...
So the Regs are sh!t, well glory-be, guess who's responsible for them too.
Doc (post #19), you got it right except for the "C" part...
CR.
Thread Starter
Geez, I didn't know that this was a can of worms. In all my interactions with CASA, they have been pleasant and helpful.
But then I follow the rules, and therefore have nothing to fear
It would be interesting to hear some first hand experiences that come out of this program.
But then I follow the rules, and therefore have nothing to fear
It would be interesting to hear some first hand experiences that come out of this program.
Suiya, I had clean slate for 34 years until I unexpectedly tangled with CASA's gestapo-like approach to regulation last year.
I have related the story on Ppruine before so I won't go into it again here.
However, you can be sure that I will be making a detailed submission to the Senate inquiry into CASA.
For a regulator to be respected, it must behave in a manner that deserves respect. Some of the posts here and the recent history of aviation regulation in Australia are the reason that, in general, there is little repect among pilots for CASA.
yahoooooo, If my experience is any indication you will most likely be threatened with mandatory punitive penalties that will get your attention ($k's in fines and gaol time) and then be offered an "administrative fine" of a couple of hundred dollars.
Dr
I have related the story on Ppruine before so I won't go into it again here.
However, you can be sure that I will be making a detailed submission to the Senate inquiry into CASA.
For a regulator to be respected, it must behave in a manner that deserves respect. Some of the posts here and the recent history of aviation regulation in Australia are the reason that, in general, there is little repect among pilots for CASA.
Guys I'm qurious that what are the fines like if you do get ramped and found to be overweight..
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 27th Jun 2008 at 02:29.
casa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At the start of my flying career was with DCA, Miss Gilltrap used to sign all the endirsements and when you stuffed up you were invited in for a chat.
The chat consisted of a cup of tea, a proper dressing down like a parent to a child then a resonable explaination of what you should have done.
End result was, you left a better pilot and had respect for the organisation that was overseeing the flying. (Only ever got invited in once).
NO THE DARK SIDE
CASA early 90's filled full of misguided unemployable "Pilots" (using thwe word loosely. As an example (no names no pack drill)
We operated an aircraft over 5700kgs. Our FOI designate was not endorsed on type. When we endorsed a pilot with around 2000 hours TT they use to take around 8 hours of flying and taxy time. Then 50 hours ICUS for command - with out exception all the pilots we endorsed were within these parameters. HOWEVER NOT THE CASA FOI
This particular individual took 8 hours taxy time before the actual air time training. This went on for quiet a while. Finally the FOI was given an endorsement. BUT HERES THE CATCH
His flight training records were endorsed by our Training Captain with teh following words
"......this pilot is not to act as pilot in command except with the written permission of either the Chief Pilot of C & T Pilot. Further any flight undertaken in command must be with the left hand seat being occupied by an endorsed Captain with 200 hours on type."
I still have a copy of his file, just in case.
As a post script this particular FOI has no retired.
The chat consisted of a cup of tea, a proper dressing down like a parent to a child then a resonable explaination of what you should have done.
End result was, you left a better pilot and had respect for the organisation that was overseeing the flying. (Only ever got invited in once).
NO THE DARK SIDE
CASA early 90's filled full of misguided unemployable "Pilots" (using thwe word loosely. As an example (no names no pack drill)
We operated an aircraft over 5700kgs. Our FOI designate was not endorsed on type. When we endorsed a pilot with around 2000 hours TT they use to take around 8 hours of flying and taxy time. Then 50 hours ICUS for command - with out exception all the pilots we endorsed were within these parameters. HOWEVER NOT THE CASA FOI
This particular individual took 8 hours taxy time before the actual air time training. This went on for quiet a while. Finally the FOI was given an endorsement. BUT HERES THE CATCH
His flight training records were endorsed by our Training Captain with teh following words
"......this pilot is not to act as pilot in command except with the written permission of either the Chief Pilot of C & T Pilot. Further any flight undertaken in command must be with the left hand seat being occupied by an endorsed Captain with 200 hours on type."
I still have a copy of his file, just in case.
As a post script this particular FOI has no retired.
rotaryman.
You're not thinking of the Cairns FOI that did a C310 endorsement then set off for Horn Island are you?
Once in cruise he changed to AUX, around Cooktown realised he didn't have enough gravy to reach Horn so returned to Cairns and wanted to US the aircraft for faulty fuel gauges!!
If so, I think he's somewhere in NSW.
You're not thinking of the Cairns FOI that did a C310 endorsement then set off for Horn Island are you?
Once in cruise he changed to AUX, around Cooktown realised he didn't have enough gravy to reach Horn so returned to Cairns and wanted to US the aircraft for faulty fuel gauges!!
If so, I think he's somewhere in NSW.
RotarymanNo he was based in southern part of Australia. If I say any more the thought policy and the libel courts are a possibility. BUT
He knows who he is as does a great number of people in his previous region. The best part is he knows of the existence of the file and the copies held by various people.
Life is good when you can see him in the pub and look across and smile.
Plane crash dad's fury
Caitriona Murtagh
Friday, June 27, 2008
The Cairns Post
THE father of Lockhart River air crash victim Sally Urquhart says the Civil Aviation Safety Authority's proposed spot checks are a cruel farce.
This week CASA announced it would carry out checks on aviation operators, aerodromes and airstrips in the Far North, including Cairns, in a bid to improve safety.
But Shane Urquhart, whose daughter Sally was one of 13 passengers to die in the 2005 Lockhart River crash, said news of the sweep "astounded and appalled" him and had given substandard airline operators advance notice of the inspections.
Mr Urquhart branded the operation a "sickening performance… wholly consistent with the deceit, dishonesty and contempt that CASA has displayed towards victims’ families".
"It is a cynical and blatant attempt by CASA to divert attention away from the forthcoming Senate inquiry into its multitude of failures to monitor and regulate the aviation industry," Mr Urquhart said in a statement issued on
behalf of victims' families.
Advance warning of CASA visits would give substandard operators a chance to "get their acts together", Mr
Urquhart predicted.
"This will enable CASA to say to the inquiry that due (to) its monitoring and regulation, compliance levels are high and that therefore, its efforts are working," he said.
But CASA's Peter Gibson said the exercise had been planned since January, well before the inquiry was
announced.
"It's taken many months to organise. It just happens that it's starting this week," he said.
"It's complete coincidence."
The announcement was made to avoid rumours spreading through the industry about the nature of the visits, he said.
"There will still be a major element of surprise," he said.
"We wanted to make it clear we’re doing this exercise and we'll be in your area, without giving any indication of when."
For information about submissions to the inquiry into the administration of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority phone 02 6277 3511.
Caitriona Murtagh
Friday, June 27, 2008
The Cairns Post
THE father of Lockhart River air crash victim Sally Urquhart says the Civil Aviation Safety Authority's proposed spot checks are a cruel farce.
This week CASA announced it would carry out checks on aviation operators, aerodromes and airstrips in the Far North, including Cairns, in a bid to improve safety.
But Shane Urquhart, whose daughter Sally was one of 13 passengers to die in the 2005 Lockhart River crash, said news of the sweep "astounded and appalled" him and had given substandard airline operators advance notice of the inspections.
Mr Urquhart branded the operation a "sickening performance… wholly consistent with the deceit, dishonesty and contempt that CASA has displayed towards victims’ families".
"It is a cynical and blatant attempt by CASA to divert attention away from the forthcoming Senate inquiry into its multitude of failures to monitor and regulate the aviation industry," Mr Urquhart said in a statement issued on
behalf of victims' families.
Advance warning of CASA visits would give substandard operators a chance to "get their acts together", Mr
Urquhart predicted.
"This will enable CASA to say to the inquiry that due (to) its monitoring and regulation, compliance levels are high and that therefore, its efforts are working," he said.
But CASA's Peter Gibson said the exercise had been planned since January, well before the inquiry was
announced.
"It's taken many months to organise. It just happens that it's starting this week," he said.
"It's complete coincidence."
The announcement was made to avoid rumours spreading through the industry about the nature of the visits, he said.
"There will still be a major element of surprise," he said.
"We wanted to make it clear we’re doing this exercise and we'll be in your area, without giving any indication of when."
For information about submissions to the inquiry into the administration of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority phone 02 6277 3511.
Without wanting to make light of the Lockhart R tragedy, in which I lost a colleague, I am sure that CASA will count me among the "cowboys" it has cleaned up in northern Australia.
This just makes those responsbile all the more pathetic!
Dr
This just makes those responsbile all the more pathetic!
Dr