ATPL Flight Planning Tricks, Short Cuts etc
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Well I've been doing some Rob Avery practise exams and there was a question where the yaw damper failed in flight and the only way I could get the answer was if I excluded traffic holding fuel. The next question was the same but it said that the crew departed with a U/S yaw damper and knew about it. The only way I could get the answer was to again exclude traffic holding fuel.
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You don't need traffic holding for abnormal ops.
Traffic holding requirements differ to wx holding requirements.
Page 1-16A of the POH
Abnormal Ops - Holding required
.
.
.
.
1) Traffic holding - need not be carried.
Where an abnormal op is considered to be 1-INOP, DP, YD INOP , TS extended and LG extended. Page 1-21
Traffic holding requirements differ to wx holding requirements.
Page 1-16A of the POH
Abnormal Ops - Holding required
.
.
.
.
1) Traffic holding - need not be carried.
Where an abnormal op is considered to be 1-INOP, DP, YD INOP , TS extended and LG extended. Page 1-21
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Just sat Flight Planning recently and passed this time, so glad to finally have them all done. I was much better prepared for the 2 markers that plagued me last time.
They like to put you in at FL2XX en-route climb to FL3XX with a current GW, W/V, TRK and make you work out the TOC GW and/or distance since the last fix. Don't be tempted to go in the chart at the GW they give you, work out an EBRW first.
Did anybody else find it difficult to use the Flight Planning forms given in the exam ?, the boxes seemed so cramped compared to what I was used to and I was writing in the wrong boxes at times, that slowed me down quite significantly.
Cheers and good luck!
They like to put you in at FL2XX en-route climb to FL3XX with a current GW, W/V, TRK and make you work out the TOC GW and/or distance since the last fix. Don't be tempted to go in the chart at the GW they give you, work out an EBRW first.
Did anybody else find it difficult to use the Flight Planning forms given in the exam ?, the boxes seemed so cramped compared to what I was used to and I was writing in the wrong boxes at times, that slowed me down quite significantly.
Cheers and good luck!
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Formula, where possible, you need to be fairly accurate, in my opinion anyway. And really, by the time you pick up your CR3, you could have punched the numbers in to the calc. By the time you finish the subject, the formula's will be a motor program........
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My turn to beg for some advice from those who know more than me about this subject.
Pre-flight holding fuel policy for the 727 is based on a fuel flow of 4000kg/hour. AFT notes say to apply this fuel flow regardless of configuration. This appears to be in line with pages 1-15 and 1-17 of the CASA 727 Handbook.
However, I just did a Rob Avery practice exam where on a landing gear down flight he calculated holding fuel based on a fuel flow of 6000kg/hr. This is in line with page 5-4 of the 727 Handbook which says holding fuel flow when gear is down is increased by approximately 50% but I thought this 50% increase was only for in-flight planning of gear-down holding using the holding table at page 4-4.
Does anyone know which way is correct?
Thanks
Pre-flight holding fuel policy for the 727 is based on a fuel flow of 4000kg/hour. AFT notes say to apply this fuel flow regardless of configuration. This appears to be in line with pages 1-15 and 1-17 of the CASA 727 Handbook.
However, I just did a Rob Avery practice exam where on a landing gear down flight he calculated holding fuel based on a fuel flow of 6000kg/hr. This is in line with page 5-4 of the 727 Handbook which says holding fuel flow when gear is down is increased by approximately 50% but I thought this 50% increase was only for in-flight planning of gear-down holding using the holding table at page 4-4.
Does anyone know which way is correct?Thanks
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My understanding is that Rob has got it right. I think the way the AFT notes are suppose to read is "regardless of configuration" is in regards to NO, DP, YD and OEI holding. Holding fuel with gear down chews through heaps more fuel than these other configurations.
Sat this exam last week and I'm glad to see it finally over. Good luck!
Sat this exam last week and I'm glad to see it finally over. Good luck!
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Sat this bugger of an exam today and got through ok. ATPLs now finished
I thought I'd add a few ideas to the thread for those still to sit the exam. I know I found many of the previous posts helpful in my preparation.
While you can't write in the 727 handbook, you can highlight creatively. For example, in the yaw damper inoperative tables on p 5-25 you could highlight the ".73" on the FL 290 line as a reminder that you'll be doing Mach .73 at 290 for all the yaw damper inoperative questions flying east. Highlight ".74" on the 280 line as the Mach number going west. You can also higlight figures to remember the SARs at different speeds (if you are using different figures rather than AFT's generic 10kg/nm). For example, on p 3-89 if you want to recall that the SAR for Mach .8 is 9.5 kg/nm, highlight the "95" in the "1895" fuel flow on the page - you can do this for every Mach number with a little bit of creativity. By the time you sit the exam, you should know all the figures but having a reminder can't hurt.
Buying the calculator used in the exams is $25 well spent. You'll probably be pushed for time and knowing how the logic of the calculator works will save you time. AFT sell them on Ebay.
As you'll probably be pushed for time, doing the 5 and 4 mark questions first is a good idea. You don't want to get these wrong. If you run out of time on a 1 or 2 mark question (or start panicing because you think you're going to run out of time and so do a bad job on the question), it's not going to be a big deal.
Do as many practice exams as you can get your hands on. Rob Avery sells a book of 5 exams for about $50. Again, it's money well spent (as for that matter, is his text book on flight planning - also about $50). Rob Avery words his questions differently to AFT and it's good to see the different styles and types of questions.
I know it's been said before, but reading the question carefully before you start working on it is absolutely crucial. Some of the 4 and 5 mark questions have a lot of information in them and you only need to miss one bit to get it all wrong. On a related topic, examine the map carefully to see if there are any unmeasured distances you need to take into account. Also, get to know the ERCs well. There are a few tricky sectors - eg you might be forgiven for thinking Danks to Keppa (near Melbourne) is 79nm but it's actually Danks to Apple that is 79nm. Egore to Janus (near Darwin) is another example.
Finally, thanks to Beat Ups for answering my earlier question.
Cheers
I thought I'd add a few ideas to the thread for those still to sit the exam. I know I found many of the previous posts helpful in my preparation.
While you can't write in the 727 handbook, you can highlight creatively. For example, in the yaw damper inoperative tables on p 5-25 you could highlight the ".73" on the FL 290 line as a reminder that you'll be doing Mach .73 at 290 for all the yaw damper inoperative questions flying east. Highlight ".74" on the 280 line as the Mach number going west. You can also higlight figures to remember the SARs at different speeds (if you are using different figures rather than AFT's generic 10kg/nm). For example, on p 3-89 if you want to recall that the SAR for Mach .8 is 9.5 kg/nm, highlight the "95" in the "1895" fuel flow on the page - you can do this for every Mach number with a little bit of creativity. By the time you sit the exam, you should know all the figures but having a reminder can't hurt.
Buying the calculator used in the exams is $25 well spent. You'll probably be pushed for time and knowing how the logic of the calculator works will save you time. AFT sell them on Ebay.
As you'll probably be pushed for time, doing the 5 and 4 mark questions first is a good idea. You don't want to get these wrong. If you run out of time on a 1 or 2 mark question (or start panicing because you think you're going to run out of time and so do a bad job on the question), it's not going to be a big deal.
Do as many practice exams as you can get your hands on. Rob Avery sells a book of 5 exams for about $50. Again, it's money well spent (as for that matter, is his text book on flight planning - also about $50). Rob Avery words his questions differently to AFT and it's good to see the different styles and types of questions.
I know it's been said before, but reading the question carefully before you start working on it is absolutely crucial. Some of the 4 and 5 mark questions have a lot of information in them and you only need to miss one bit to get it all wrong. On a related topic, examine the map carefully to see if there are any unmeasured distances you need to take into account. Also, get to know the ERCs well. There are a few tricky sectors - eg you might be forgiven for thinking Danks to Keppa (near Melbourne) is 79nm but it's actually Danks to Apple that is 79nm. Egore to Janus (near Darwin) is another example.
Finally, thanks to Beat Ups for answering my earlier question.
Cheers
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I passed this exam today.
I attended the AFT class a while ago and kept putting the exam off as I wasn't confident / lack of motivation / bad time management / better things to do / work (excuses) and was glad to get it over and done with.
I ended up buying a DT210 between my time away from AFT and reading over the notes again, helped a lot during the exam as I knew where the buttons were. I also used the formula to calculate TAS from a given mach number, only because I was familiar with doing it that way rather than looking up the appropriate level in the blue book as others have suggested in this thread.
There was only about two questions that threw me off a little, one was a yaw damper inoperative question - flying from Darwin to Alice Springs @ FL330, 0.82M, overhead ***** (forgot name already but circled on my erc) yaw damper fails. Well I knew I couldn't maintain FL330 so I used FL290 to continue to Alice, BUT I couldn't for the life of me remember the limiting speed (turns out to be 0.7 something) so I continued to plan at 0.82M, silly me, totally forgot about that one.
The other was a maximum altitude given a track and a BRW. I used the altitude table relevant to the hemispherical IFR cruising levels when I think I should have gone for the maximum (RTFQ).
Some questions were similar, if not exactly the same as those in the AFT practice exams, like 315nm from Perth PNR. 9000kg zone fuel between two points from Brisbane to Bali, TAS from a hold at FL270 with EMZW of 67T. 1inop between Brisbane and Sydney (engine failure at V1 - this question originally was planning from Brisbane to Melbourne)
I found it pretty straight forward, I studied for about 2 weeks prior to the exam or about 3 to 4 hours per day, I gave myself the weekends off. The material came back pretty quickly for me. There weren't any tricks to the exam, no real curve balls that threw me off or that I couldn't just figure out. I had to sit back on a couple just to think to figure out what they were asking.
FWIW, I started at the 5 mark questions first and worked backwards. Finished the exam with about 15 minutes to spare, didn't worry about double checking anything and just hit submit.
I attended the AFT class a while ago and kept putting the exam off as I wasn't confident / lack of motivation / bad time management / better things to do / work (excuses) and was glad to get it over and done with.
I ended up buying a DT210 between my time away from AFT and reading over the notes again, helped a lot during the exam as I knew where the buttons were. I also used the formula to calculate TAS from a given mach number, only because I was familiar with doing it that way rather than looking up the appropriate level in the blue book as others have suggested in this thread.
There was only about two questions that threw me off a little, one was a yaw damper inoperative question - flying from Darwin to Alice Springs @ FL330, 0.82M, overhead ***** (forgot name already but circled on my erc) yaw damper fails. Well I knew I couldn't maintain FL330 so I used FL290 to continue to Alice, BUT I couldn't for the life of me remember the limiting speed (turns out to be 0.7 something) so I continued to plan at 0.82M, silly me, totally forgot about that one.
The other was a maximum altitude given a track and a BRW. I used the altitude table relevant to the hemispherical IFR cruising levels when I think I should have gone for the maximum (RTFQ).
Some questions were similar, if not exactly the same as those in the AFT practice exams, like 315nm from Perth PNR. 9000kg zone fuel between two points from Brisbane to Bali, TAS from a hold at FL270 with EMZW of 67T. 1inop between Brisbane and Sydney (engine failure at V1 - this question originally was planning from Brisbane to Melbourne)
I found it pretty straight forward, I studied for about 2 weeks prior to the exam or about 3 to 4 hours per day, I gave myself the weekends off. The material came back pretty quickly for me. There weren't any tricks to the exam, no real curve balls that threw me off or that I couldn't just figure out. I had to sit back on a couple just to think to figure out what they were asking.
FWIW, I started at the 5 mark questions first and worked backwards. Finished the exam with about 15 minutes to spare, didn't worry about double checking anything and just hit submit.
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Dotau, thanks for the info!
I am sitting the exam om Friday (my last ATPL) and I am not looking forward to it at all. I have been studying for about 4-5 hours for the last 2 weeks, and I did all the practice questions as well as the final exams. On average, I am getting about 3-4 wrong for every 19 questions...
Dotau, you mentioned a question about yaw damper inop at FL330. Since you have to continue at FL290 (or FL280 going west), do you have to plan the descent from FL330 to FL290, or do you disregard the descent figures such as for depress and 1-engine inop?
Also, the question regarding the max flight level. Wouldn't you have to go max hemispherical anyways if you are given a track? Or does the question have to specify max level complying with hemispherical IFR?
Thanks!
I am sitting the exam om Friday (my last ATPL) and I am not looking forward to it at all. I have been studying for about 4-5 hours for the last 2 weeks, and I did all the practice questions as well as the final exams. On average, I am getting about 3-4 wrong for every 19 questions...
Dotau, you mentioned a question about yaw damper inop at FL330. Since you have to continue at FL290 (or FL280 going west), do you have to plan the descent from FL330 to FL290, or do you disregard the descent figures such as for depress and 1-engine inop?
Also, the question regarding the max flight level. Wouldn't you have to go max hemispherical anyways if you are given a track? Or does the question have to specify max level complying with hemispherical IFR?
Thanks!
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Hi Millon,
I did Aft course in Feb this year. For YD & DP disregard the descent and assume you went to FL290 or 280 depending, straight away, (hypothetically) then plan your descent from there.
Max level for hemispherical
Good luck!!! It's a ripper and enjoy the beers when you pass!!
I did Aft course in Feb this year. For YD & DP disregard the descent and assume you went to FL290 or 280 depending, straight away, (hypothetically) then plan your descent from there.
Max level for hemispherical
Good luck!!! It's a ripper and enjoy the beers when you pass!!
Last edited by belly tank; 31st May 2011 at 13:48.
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Passed flight planning on Friday. ATPLs are finally out of the way! All I can say for now is to start with the 5 point markers and work your way back. It may sound intimidating, but the 5 point questions are actually overestimated and they are not any harder than the 4 or even some of the 3 mark questions. I find this is the best way to finish on time and answer the 1 and 2 mark questions with confidence.
I will keep on monitoring this page to try to help any future candidates. Thanks all for your help!
I will keep on monitoring this page to try to help any future candidates. Thanks all for your help!
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Millionario,
Congrats mate! well done!
I am studying Flight Planning at the moment using the aft notes and self studying the subject. Ive allocated about 4-5 weeks of full time study for it (ie a few hours a day) and am considering getting some tuition from the guy at Tristar Aviation in MB.
Millionario- any tips on self studying it etc? Did you highlight your ERC charts ?
Is the AFT book sufficient for a comfortable pass?
Congrats mate! well done!
I am studying Flight Planning at the moment using the aft notes and self studying the subject. Ive allocated about 4-5 weeks of full time study for it (ie a few hours a day) and am considering getting some tuition from the guy at Tristar Aviation in MB.
Millionario- any tips on self studying it etc? Did you highlight your ERC charts ?
Is the AFT book sufficient for a comfortable pass?
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Thanks nkand!
The AFT book is all you need. Make sure you do every question on it and allocate around 20 minutes for the big (5 mark) questions. I got about 5 questions directly from the book, word for word. I also got a lot of holding questions, especially when flying to Melbourne and having to hold at the PKS/POLSO/CANTY sector. I didn't highlight my ERCs, but I made sure I measured the distances not mentioned on the ERC just in case, as well as measuring the total distances of the most common routes (BNE-ML, BNE-SYD, ML-SYD, PH-DN, DN-AS, AS-AD and so on..) before hand to save some time. PM me with your email and I will send you some extra questions you will find useful!
The AFT book is all you need. Make sure you do every question on it and allocate around 20 minutes for the big (5 mark) questions. I got about 5 questions directly from the book, word for word. I also got a lot of holding questions, especially when flying to Melbourne and having to hold at the PKS/POLSO/CANTY sector. I didn't highlight my ERCs, but I made sure I measured the distances not mentioned on the ERC just in case, as well as measuring the total distances of the most common routes (BNE-ML, BNE-SYD, ML-SYD, PH-DN, DN-AS, AS-AD and so on..) before hand to save some time. PM me with your email and I will send you some extra questions you will find useful!
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ATPL Air Law
Hi,
I've just got the ATPL air law exam to go, but don't have any of the reference books as I fly in another country. If anyone in Perth is willing to offload some of their stuff, I'll be glad to pick it up. Please PM me if possible.
Thanks
I've just got the ATPL air law exam to go, but don't have any of the reference books as I fly in another country. If anyone in Perth is willing to offload some of their stuff, I'll be glad to pick it up. Please PM me if possible.
Thanks
powerup, the whole heap of the documents are available online, which can really help you save some cash.
CAO and CAR are available from the CASA website
AIP and ERSA are available from the Airservices website.
You can print off the CAR and CAO, and with a little planning you need only print off the stuff you really need. Leave off the CASR entirely; you cant yet take it into the exam.
Buy an AIP - printing that is painful. If you borrow an AIP, make sure it is current.
CAO and CAR are available from the CASA website
AIP and ERSA are available from the Airservices website.
You can print off the CAR and CAO, and with a little planning you need only print off the stuff you really need. Leave off the CASR entirely; you cant yet take it into the exam.
Buy an AIP - printing that is painful. If you borrow an AIP, make sure it is current.
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I am using the AFT flight planning distance course notes and was curious about how similar the flight plan forms are in the exam to the ones I am using as a part of the AFT notes. On the CASA website for exam materials they mention a flight plan booklet.
Can anyone that has recently sat this exam and used the AFT notes please let me know what I should expect. thanks in advance.
Can anyone that has recently sat this exam and used the AFT notes please let me know what I should expect. thanks in advance.
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Uncopilot,
Having recently done the exam- about a month ago and a 10% over achiever , the flight plan forms they provide are the same as AFT with a few add ons at the end you wont need. The boxes are also smaller, so might have to write a bit neater but otherwise very very similar!
In regard to the exam, Speed speed speed speed, did i mention speed? Accuracy and speed are the two biggest things in this exam.
I finished personally with 10 seconds on the clock and did not have time to review my questions whatsoever, the system submitted the exam itself after 3 hours and i sat there with my pulse racing hoping id passed!
Doing 3 hour full practice exams are futile- you can't fully replicate exam conditions and the adrenaline you feel in the exam, I couldnt sit a full 3 hour exam and concentrate during practice exams but managed to do it for the actual- ps think that Red Bull halfway through helped me
Good luck!
Having recently done the exam- about a month ago and a 10% over achiever
, the flight plan forms they provide are the same as AFT with a few add ons at the end you wont need. The boxes are also smaller, so might have to write a bit neater but otherwise very very similar!In regard to the exam, Speed speed speed speed, did i mention speed? Accuracy and speed are the two biggest things in this exam.
I finished personally with 10 seconds on the clock and did not have time to review my questions whatsoever, the system submitted the exam itself after 3 hours and i sat there with my pulse racing hoping id passed!
Doing 3 hour full practice exams are futile- you can't fully replicate exam conditions and the adrenaline you feel in the exam, I couldnt sit a full 3 hour exam and concentrate during practice exams but managed to do it for the actual- ps think that Red Bull halfway through helped me
Good luck!