ATPL Flight Planning Tricks, Short Cuts etc

[training wheels]

Originally Posted by uncopilot

Can anyone that has recently sat this exam and used the AFT notes please let me know what I should expect. thanks in advance.

It's been a while since I sat mine, but can't imagine that too much has changed since then (they're still using the B727 aren't they? hehe). The flight plan form's tables are identical to those you get from AFT, but the column widths are a little narrower (typical CASA cost cutting, I guess) and also the quality of the printing is not as good as AFT. To tell you the truth, that's the only thing I can remember about the flight planning exam .. the rest is just a blur for me now ...

[uncopilot]

Thanks allot for the info guys. I'll be happy to have this exam behind me

[ReverseFlight]

training wheels, as you recall, I sat Flight Planning even before you (hazy memories now ...) but one piece of advice which Rob Avery gives is not to use the flight planning forms in the exam at all because these slow you down and no marks are given for neatness or completeness (they go straight into the shredding bin at the end of the exam). For future generations of candidates, better just to rely on annotations to your own flight diagrams (takeoff, climb, cruise, descent etc).

[training wheels]

Originally Posted by ReverseFlight

training wheels, as you recall, I sat Flight Planning even before you (hazy memories now ...) but one piece of advice which Rob Avery gives is not to use the flight planning forms in the exam at all because these slow you down and no marks are given for neatness or completeness (they go straight into the shredding bin at the end of the exam). For future generations of candidates, better just to rely on annotations to your own flight diagrams (takeoff, climb, cruise, descent etc).

RF, I used both the AFT and Rob Avery notes for studying flight planning. I found Rob's method of drawing diagrams and annotating them just as time consuming as using the flight plan forms. I ended up using the AFT method with the flight forms since it allowed the calculations to be performed 'mechanically' .. after hundreds of practice runs, you get into a pattern of filling in the boxes on the form without even having to think.

I guess it's what suits you best as an individual.. some people find it easier drawing diagrams and seeing the overall big picture from take-off to descent .. others like myself find it easier to methodically number crunch just like a human FMC

[ReverseFlight]

tw, you're absolutely right, it's horses for courses. Both methods must work as people passed. Aren't we glad we've done it and never have to look back on it again !

Safe flying, and enjoy.

[belly tank]

Here here!... I did aft course this year in Feb and was allowed to use af planning forms for exam at archerfield exam. Boxes were bigger in aft sheets plus it was familiar after a thousand practice sheets!! I did 4 practice exams and took nearly 3 hrs to Finnish then did the real exam and finished with a minute or so to go and got through ok....never to see this bad boy again!

I'm onto my last one now systems which is quite a thick piece of paper

[major_tom]

Sat flight planning today. Got 80%, and found a lot of it similar to aft and rob avery exams. I was quite fortunate as I got 5 cpdp questions and got 2 of them wrong (Damn it).

Watch ur time carefully as u may find it pretty cruisy for the first 10 questions, but u will need as much time as possible near the end.

PPPPP prior prep prevents piss performance

[flyboy_nz]

Sat flight planning yesterday, didn't get through. I ran out of time and I started with the 5 markers first. I took too long in the middle. Plenty of questions on holding, had a couple on finding FOB at cp point. There were others that gave you GW at different waypoints along a track, including TOD and you had a find GW at a particular point.

Had one gear down question. My advice on anyone doing it soon, know your company policy inside out. Differences between inflight and pre flight as well. That got me big time.

Looking back, I needed more practice for the exams. Will be better prepared next time.

[wings0321]

atpl

The forms are essentially the same albeit with narrower collums. you may be lucky enough to use AFT'S flight planning forms.

[Damien1989]

Wha?

I've come across an interesting situation to do with finding the correct fuel burn for a certain part of a flight. Given this theoretical situation:

cruising FL330
mach .79
start zone weight is 70560
distance is 284
ground speed 543
(83kt tailwind)
and its ISA +3


u estimate a midzone weight say 69t

fuel flow for 69t .79 +3isa gives 4019kgph
so for this period of time (284/543) it's 2102kg.
endzone weight will therefore be 68458kg
(70560-2102)

so double checking the midzone weight u go 2102kg/2 + 68458kg gives 69509kg
which is closer to 70t
only by 9kg but its still closer

so u redo the fuel flow figures for 70t
same everything else
it's 4066kg an hour, for this distance it's 2127kg
therefore endzone weight:
70560-2127 = 68433

double check ur midzone weight 2127/2 plus 68433 gives 69496
which is then closer to 69t
only by 4kg but its still closer.
so you're going round in circles

Can anyone see an error in those calculations? I've rechecked them several times but still keep coming up with the same figures.

PS sorry for the abbreviated spelling - Copied and pasted straight from a chat window.

Cheers

[Damien1989]

So I sat this last week and missed out by a question Despite getting full marks in some of the aft cyber practice exams, I obviously wasn't sufficiently accurate for the CASA exam. Either that or i f####d up badly on the day Have got hold of some Rob Avery notes and have noticed a few things he does differently which will hopefully help me get a little more accurate.

I've noticed he interpolates winds for the cruise as opposed to Aft which just says pick the winds closest to your level. I've found this can sometimes make a big enough difference to your final answer to get it wrong (depending on who the question was written by). So which way does CASA work it out?

As far as I'm concerned the "super sector" planning is BS. I had one instance where in Rob Avery's notes his averaged ISA variation lead him to choose a lower cruise level in 1 engine inop config. If it had been done in two different sectors the A/C was capable of 2000ft higher = a great deal less fuel burn.

Anyone studying for this exam at the moment PM me.

[PPRuNeUser0163]

Damien,

Sorry to hear! Your definitely not the first or last- this exam nabs most people.

I self studied it and passed first time (80%) using AFT's notes. I know alot who did the same and didn't and considered switching to Avery's notes.

Consider this- they are VERY different methods- Avery uses a pictorial method and the front section of the 727 POH versus AFT who use the purely table method and dont use the range tables at all, instead just the fuel flow closer to the back of 727 POH.

If I was you I wouldn't switch- I think it will complicate things. This exam requires you to go guns blazing from the time the clock starts counting down until the end- no questions asked- I think alot go in, get so flustered from the terribly long wording of the questions (esp the 5 markers and some 3/4 markers) that they almost fall into a heap convincing themselves they can't do them when infact its probably an Avery or Aft scenario just worded differently.

I think AFT is of sufficient accuracy- some might dispute this but it seems common consensus. You will probably NOT get exacts in the exam- but as long as they are closer to one answer then the other- that is good enough!

Any qs- PM me- be happy to help!

[Lasiorhinus]

They're two different scenarios.

A, is referring to what you'd do if you had an engine failure on takeoff at Brisbane. Assuming you planned that you'd make the decision to fly onward to Sydney OEI, how much fuel would you need?

B, is a different story. It assumes a normal takeoff and cruise, passing Sydney and continuing on towards Adelaide, but then, at the CP-OEI between Sydney and Adelaide, you then have an engine failure. Because you're between to suitable aerodromes, you have the choice of SY or AD to land at. How much fuel would you need if the engine failed at the CP-OEI between Sydney and Adelaide.

Also note, this is not saying that the CP for the entire BN-AD flight lies between Sydney and Adelaide (though it probably does). You would have two seperate CP-OEIs for this flight - one is between BN and SY - in the event of an engine failure before passing Sydney, you'd choose either BN or SY to land at - not Adelaide. Also, once you'd passed Sydney, the only options you'd consider is either turn around and go to Sydney, or continue to Adelaide - you wouldnt go all the way back to Brisbane, because that would by definition mean flying past Sydney, and therefore using more fuel than if you decided to land AT Sydney.

[Cessna 180]

Because you're are going to Brisbane anyway, if you make it to the cp wouldn't you continue on anyway? Especially if the weather is kinder at your destination than your departure.
Just my interpretation of it anyway....

[Flyin]

Hi all,
Currently revising for AFPA in a coulpe of weeks and came across this question. Can't seem to figure out FL240 was calculated, gone through the question and answers multiple times. The technique is correct but the answer is incorrect due to the different flight level selected.
This question is for those with the B727 Bible handy.
Could just be the brain going on the fritz.



Thanks for all the input in this thread, a lot of tips in here.

[Username here]

G'day guys,

Just wondering if anyone who has done AFPA recently (post the changes) can remember the question breakdown they had? I just did an AFT practice exam with:
3 x 5 markers
4 x 4 markers
1 x 3 marker
6 x 2 markers
4 x 1 markers

Among the 7 4/5 markers 5 of those were big PNRs! It was a brutal three hours!!!

Is this a typical CASA AFPA I can expect on D-Day?!?

Thanks guys.

[Gearupandorrf]

AFPA Pass rates.

Hi guys,

Just bringing this thread back to life as I'm sitting the exam next week.

Last ATPL exam so really keen to knock this one on the head.

Have any of you heard anything re: what current pass rates are looking like?
Last I'd heard, the Exam had been tinkered with and was virtually impassable.

I'm using AFT notes, and have had no probs with doing the questions and am now just refining technique/ building up to exam speed over the next week.

For those who have sat recently and used AFT notes, have you found that the AFT content was similar to the exam?

Thanks for your help,
Gearup.

[checked_and_set]

I passed ATPL Flight Planning 3 weeks ago first attempt with 80%. I had to put in the hard yards and locked myself away for 2 weeks just doing question after question. What I found most helpful was Rob Avery's Practice exams. They are a similar length, content and allocation of marks as the actual CASA exam. If you can knock over an Avery exam in 2 hours and get around 85% you'll be set for the CASA exam.

I recommend doing the exam backwards, getting all the big marks out of the way first. That way if you start to run out of time you are only going to miss 1 or 2 markers and it is much easier to concentrate on knocking over the 5 markers when you feel relaxed rather than a mad dash in the last 30 minutes.

When doing practice questions keep a list of the mistakes you are making. I found that often times I would get a question wrong from a similar mistake I had made in earlier questions, so by making a list you can really drill into your head where you need to improve. Also make sure you re-do all the questions you got incorrect.

Make good use of your Highlighter in the 727 POH, it can help speed up how quickly you find information within tables. For example on the Altitude capability table I highlighted all the Westerly Flight Levels so I could quickly differentiate between the different Flight Levels. I would also highlight common routes on your ERC charts that come up in practice questions as this can save time looking back and forth between your ERC and calculations.

Finally, when doing your final practice exams put yourself under real exam conditions by having a countdown timer and only using equipment you will have in the exam eg. Doing your calculations with a graylead and rubber rather than a pacer on a set of 5 pages stapled together.

Best of luck and remember PPPPP (Prior Preparation Prevents Poor Performance)!

C & S

[mcgrath50]

I passed on my 3rd attempt with 80-something % after badly failing my first two. The questions had been rewritten for my 3rd attempt, completely. I hadn't seen some of the routes before but if you know the AFT method and the new CASA rounding you will be fine. I actually felt the exam was fair and not too difficult. Not 100% sure if it was because I was by far the best prepared I have ever been for an exam or if the change has made it easier, probably a combination.

In addition to the above, I found doing a couple practice questions just before leaving home was a great warm up to the brain into gear. And I also want to emphasise highlighting! Highlight corners of pages to flick to easily, highlight SGRs if you cant remember them, if you keep forgetting to not use VR in flight highlight a big cross through Variable Reserve. Try to rely on your brain as little as possible!

[Joker89]

How long do you think you need to devote to flight planning in order to pass. I try and do 2 hrs a night. I did met and human factors in 1 week each, air law in 3 days and perf and loading in about 10. Going to give myself 2 weeks for nav but after hearing the flight planning is in a different league thinking a month might not be enough. Trying to beat the dec part 61 changes.

Thanks