All those that flew for Discover (f)lying on the Penguin runs
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Holes in the cheese
When I arrived the act was down at the hangar. When I got there the battery and air bottle were out pending payment for the work. Back to the hangar for one of "sir's" rubber cheques then back to pick up the acft.
Ground run and functional check without stopping at 20 deg (would have picked up the asymmetry if we had). Flap indicator is only connected to right flap and you can't see how much is out from the cockpit.
Because I was late I was last in the line of aircraft taxiing for the island so nobody behind me to notice. The plug in the cheese? I read in the crash comic of a Heron in Fiji that crashed with a similar problem and wondered what I could do in a similar event. There was a different cause but same symptoms.
It took fully crossed aileron, a boot load of rudder and asymmetric power to turn. I didn't pull the gear up or touch the flap for fear of losing more air pressure and lose control. I took full flap over the threshold and it evened up and to top it off had a completely unrelated electrical fire up through the throttle quadrant on the roll through.
A bad day at the office!
Ground run and functional check without stopping at 20 deg (would have picked up the asymmetry if we had). Flap indicator is only connected to right flap and you can't see how much is out from the cockpit.
Because I was late I was last in the line of aircraft taxiing for the island so nobody behind me to notice. The plug in the cheese? I read in the crash comic of a Heron in Fiji that crashed with a similar problem and wondered what I could do in a similar event. There was a different cause but same symptoms.
It took fully crossed aileron, a boot load of rudder and asymmetric power to turn. I didn't pull the gear up or touch the flap for fear of losing more air pressure and lose control. I took full flap over the threshold and it evened up and to top it off had a completely unrelated electrical fire up through the throttle quadrant on the roll through.
A bad day at the office!
Having many hours in Herons I can sympathise with you on the asymmetric flap.
The Heron in Fiji was one flap completely up with the other extended to 40 degrees.
The reason was that a connecting bolt in the flap system was installed with the nut at the top, so when the nut undid the bolt simply fell out causing the split flap.
My American friend who had owned the aircraft some 3 year earlier was sued unsuccessfully for the accident.
Luck he was able to provide that Sunflower had done the maintenance.
The Heron in Fiji was one flap completely up with the other extended to 40 degrees.
The reason was that a connecting bolt in the flap system was installed with the nut at the top, so when the nut undid the bolt simply fell out causing the split flap.
My American friend who had owned the aircraft some 3 year earlier was sued unsuccessfully for the accident.
Luck he was able to provide that Sunflower had done the maintenance.
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PAX Safe and job well done
As I stated before Flying Spike, you did very well and i dare say not many others would have been successful
given that the Riley vertical stabiliser actually reduced rudder authority made it all the more impressive! I am hopefully going to see NBM in her current(and possibly Final!) resting location this month. Will post some pics to bring back those fond(horrifying) memories.
P.S I assume you also flew ABM. rest assured she is as well equipped now as she was when in operation
Cheers, Dan
given that the Riley vertical stabiliser actually reduced rudder authority made it all the more impressive! I am hopefully going to see NBM in her current(and possibly Final!) resting location this month. Will post some pics to bring back those fond(horrifying) memories.P.S I assume you also flew ABM. rest assured she is as well equipped now as she was when in operation
Cheers, Dan
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That photo 'DS3' looks just like the last day I flew the old girl only better even with the Left Eng Mag still left on, these didn't need turning off anyway as it was near impossible to get these things going instantly anyway so having them start with a live Mag just by slightly moving the prop would have been impossible!:-)!
Where is NBM these days? That was the worst of the two (if that's possible):-)
Wmk2
Where is NBM these days? That was the worst of the two (if that's possible):-)
Wmk2
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She is with a collector in central Vic that saved her from the scrap heap, and this will make you laugh, MM promised a heap more Dove bits and pieces in the purchase price that never arrived.
shocked?
Cheers, Dan
shocked?Cheers, Dan
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.............geee Sir 'MM' would never say/do such a thing, nah you must be mistaken there 'Dan' I mean nothing ever gets past Sir 'MM' without another avenue for more $$$, he'll sell the extra bits to a blind man saying here feel that green serviceable tag?
A few times old Sandy at PID said when next you fly in bring a check from 'Sir MM' otherwise you won't be able to stay, those flights usually yielded the best landings as the 'rubber' check helped cushioned the arrival:-)
So are both ABM & NBM at the same resting place then?
Wmk2
A few times old Sandy at PID said when next you fly in bring a check from 'Sir MM' otherwise you won't be able to stay, those flights usually yielded the best landings as the 'rubber' check helped cushioned the arrival:-)
So are both ABM & NBM at the same resting place then?
Wmk2
Isn't amazing how one photo can bring back instant recall of event(s) of over 60 years ago? I'm talking about the pneumatic brake pressure gauge seen in the bottom left of the remains of that Dove instrument panel.
Many British designed aircraft had identical brake pressure gauges such as that one. The big needle read the total remaining compressed air in the brake system and the two smaller gauges display brake air pressure to individual main wheels. The Canberra bomber, Spitfire and Hurricane, Hawker Sea Fury, and Lancaster bomber were many of the types that used compressed air brakes. The brakes in the Lincoln were the same. (photo of Lincoln from photobucket did not turn out, curses)
I had just joined No 10 (Maritime Reconnaissance) Squadron at Townsville to fly Lincolns for the next two years. Having previously flown Tiger Moths which had no wheel brakes but a tail skid that once tore through the Senior Air Traffic Controllers veggie patch under the control tower at Uranquinty NSW which really upset him. His name was Squadron Leader Harry Connolly DFC DFM - a portly chap with a Navigator's wing and a couple of rows of campaign ribbons on his chest and prone to outbursts when excited or upset. While taxing solo in the Moth I was weaving the nose to avoid the last known position of his veggie garden when I found it OK, the tail skid being an effective hoe. Harry called me "that Horrible Pilot Officer Centaurus" after that.
Anyway, I digress. In 1953, Townsville had three runways with runway 07 being awfully short at 4000 feet and the extended centre line being over the suburb of Belgian Gardens. At the time of this event runway 02 was out of action. My CO Wing Commander John Handbury AFC (former wartime Hudson pilot against the Japs) called me to his office and said the Officer Commanding North-Eastern Area Australia was coming in to fly a Lincoln on continuation training that afternoon and I was to be his second dickey (co-pilot). OC NE Area was Group Captain Patrick "Paddy" Heffernan OBE AFC and his HQ was in Townsville.
Paddy walked with a distinct limp caused by one leg being shorter than the other, the result of a mid-air collision at night in a Wellington bomber over England. He was thrown from his Wellington during the impact and landed heavily by parachute into a farmer's field. The rest of the crews of the two bombers did not survive the mid-air. Despite grievous injuries caused by striking the fuselage of his Wellington as it broke apart, Paddy regained his flying status several years later towards the end of the SW Pacific campaign against Japanese forces. At Townsville, we had a Mustang A68-113 for target towing air to air gunnery practice and Paddy would occasionally leave his desk and fly the Mustang as well as the unit Dakota and Lincoln. However with his gammy leg he baulked at flying the unit Wirraway which could be a bugger to land in a crosswind. He was a short pilot as was I, and it soon became obvious the blind was leading the blind when taking off and landing the Mk 31 Long Nose Lincoln.
The pilot's seat in the Lincoln was on a raised pedestal while the occupant of the right hand fold-down dickey seat sat a lot lower. The pilot had a shoulder harness but the right seat man only had a lap strap. As the Lincoln, like the Lancaster, was designed to be flown by one pilot, the right seat could be stowed away against the cockpit wall or used for a passenger, pilot, airman or whoever. After engine start Paddy taxied the Lincoln for take off on runway 07. The long nose prevented a view over the nose and like the Mustang and indeed a Tiger Moth, the pilot was forced to weave left and right to clear the area directly ahead. Night-time taxing was indeed a nightmare. Each weave meant brake use and at idle RPM on the No 3 engine that ran the air compressor, there wasn't enough RPM to effectively charge the lost air pressure. After Paddy had done a few touch and go circuits on 07, he announced that the next landing would be a flapless full stop. I had never seen a flapless in a Lincoln and was therefore taken aback when Paddy said he would don his shoulder straps for this landing.
As there was no shoulder straps for the dickey seat, this looked like a potential Mayday situation to me; especially as I had no idea what speed over the fence would be used. In fact, Paddy used about 125 knots which, as it turned out, was well in excess of what was published in Pilot's Notes Lincoln. The Pilots Notes at page 45 said: Quote: "Flapless Landings. The initial approach should be made at 115 knots IAS. Little power is needed to maintain this speed. The approach is flat with a nose-up attitude but control remains satisfactory. Considerable tail down trim my be needed and care must be exercised if it is necessary to go around again. Aim to cross the airfield boundary at 105-110 knots. Power should not be reduced suddenly as this results in a high rate of sink. The aircraft can be brought to rest within 2000 yards with moderate use of the brakes" Unquote.
2000 yards is about 6000 feet and 07 was only 4000 feet. I don't think Paddy had read his Pilot's Notes. I was only a mere 21 year old sergeant with barely 300 hours and even if I knew about the landing length needed for a flapless - which I didn't - it was not the done thing in those days to offer handling advice to a highly experienced hoary old group captain. We crossed the threshold fast and floated and floated and floated. Being a tail wheel aircraft you could not spike it on the runway otherwise there would be a huge bounce and go-around.
We finally hit the deck in three points with no forward vision and Paddy and I both threw open our respective side windows and shoved our goggled heads way out in the airstream to see where we were going. That was common practice on the Long Nose. In addition, short pilots sometimes loosened their lap strap and stood up with toes on the rudder bars like a jockey riding a horse, in order to get a better view over the nose. Paddy tried that but with one leg shorter than the other it meant he was not getting even braking. He would never have passed even a CASA Class 2 medical nowadays...
With heavy pneumatic braking accompanied by lots of hissing as the brake pressure rapidly depleted, the Lincoln came to a stop right at the end of 07. The brake bags on one wheel were burnt through and we had to be towed somewhat ingloriously for a Group Captain OBE AFC, back to the RAAF tarmac. We were lucky not to have over-run into the outskirts of Belgian Gardens. Now I knew why Paddy Heffernan used his shoulder harness.
So there is the story, brought back to life by seeing the triple needle pneumatic air- pressure gauge in the wreckage of the Dove cockpit.
Many British designed aircraft had identical brake pressure gauges such as that one. The big needle read the total remaining compressed air in the brake system and the two smaller gauges display brake air pressure to individual main wheels. The Canberra bomber, Spitfire and Hurricane, Hawker Sea Fury, and Lancaster bomber were many of the types that used compressed air brakes. The brakes in the Lincoln were the same. (photo of Lincoln from photobucket did not turn out, curses)
I had just joined No 10 (Maritime Reconnaissance) Squadron at Townsville to fly Lincolns for the next two years. Having previously flown Tiger Moths which had no wheel brakes but a tail skid that once tore through the Senior Air Traffic Controllers veggie patch under the control tower at Uranquinty NSW which really upset him. His name was Squadron Leader Harry Connolly DFC DFM - a portly chap with a Navigator's wing and a couple of rows of campaign ribbons on his chest and prone to outbursts when excited or upset. While taxing solo in the Moth I was weaving the nose to avoid the last known position of his veggie garden when I found it OK, the tail skid being an effective hoe. Harry called me "that Horrible Pilot Officer Centaurus" after that.
Anyway, I digress. In 1953, Townsville had three runways with runway 07 being awfully short at 4000 feet and the extended centre line being over the suburb of Belgian Gardens. At the time of this event runway 02 was out of action. My CO Wing Commander John Handbury AFC (former wartime Hudson pilot against the Japs) called me to his office and said the Officer Commanding North-Eastern Area Australia was coming in to fly a Lincoln on continuation training that afternoon and I was to be his second dickey (co-pilot). OC NE Area was Group Captain Patrick "Paddy" Heffernan OBE AFC and his HQ was in Townsville.
Paddy walked with a distinct limp caused by one leg being shorter than the other, the result of a mid-air collision at night in a Wellington bomber over England. He was thrown from his Wellington during the impact and landed heavily by parachute into a farmer's field. The rest of the crews of the two bombers did not survive the mid-air. Despite grievous injuries caused by striking the fuselage of his Wellington as it broke apart, Paddy regained his flying status several years later towards the end of the SW Pacific campaign against Japanese forces. At Townsville, we had a Mustang A68-113 for target towing air to air gunnery practice and Paddy would occasionally leave his desk and fly the Mustang as well as the unit Dakota and Lincoln. However with his gammy leg he baulked at flying the unit Wirraway which could be a bugger to land in a crosswind. He was a short pilot as was I, and it soon became obvious the blind was leading the blind when taking off and landing the Mk 31 Long Nose Lincoln.
The pilot's seat in the Lincoln was on a raised pedestal while the occupant of the right hand fold-down dickey seat sat a lot lower. The pilot had a shoulder harness but the right seat man only had a lap strap. As the Lincoln, like the Lancaster, was designed to be flown by one pilot, the right seat could be stowed away against the cockpit wall or used for a passenger, pilot, airman or whoever. After engine start Paddy taxied the Lincoln for take off on runway 07. The long nose prevented a view over the nose and like the Mustang and indeed a Tiger Moth, the pilot was forced to weave left and right to clear the area directly ahead. Night-time taxing was indeed a nightmare. Each weave meant brake use and at idle RPM on the No 3 engine that ran the air compressor, there wasn't enough RPM to effectively charge the lost air pressure. After Paddy had done a few touch and go circuits on 07, he announced that the next landing would be a flapless full stop. I had never seen a flapless in a Lincoln and was therefore taken aback when Paddy said he would don his shoulder straps for this landing.
As there was no shoulder straps for the dickey seat, this looked like a potential Mayday situation to me; especially as I had no idea what speed over the fence would be used. In fact, Paddy used about 125 knots which, as it turned out, was well in excess of what was published in Pilot's Notes Lincoln. The Pilots Notes at page 45 said: Quote: "Flapless Landings. The initial approach should be made at 115 knots IAS. Little power is needed to maintain this speed. The approach is flat with a nose-up attitude but control remains satisfactory. Considerable tail down trim my be needed and care must be exercised if it is necessary to go around again. Aim to cross the airfield boundary at 105-110 knots. Power should not be reduced suddenly as this results in a high rate of sink. The aircraft can be brought to rest within 2000 yards with moderate use of the brakes" Unquote.
2000 yards is about 6000 feet and 07 was only 4000 feet. I don't think Paddy had read his Pilot's Notes. I was only a mere 21 year old sergeant with barely 300 hours and even if I knew about the landing length needed for a flapless - which I didn't - it was not the done thing in those days to offer handling advice to a highly experienced hoary old group captain. We crossed the threshold fast and floated and floated and floated. Being a tail wheel aircraft you could not spike it on the runway otherwise there would be a huge bounce and go-around.
We finally hit the deck in three points with no forward vision and Paddy and I both threw open our respective side windows and shoved our goggled heads way out in the airstream to see where we were going. That was common practice on the Long Nose. In addition, short pilots sometimes loosened their lap strap and stood up with toes on the rudder bars like a jockey riding a horse, in order to get a better view over the nose. Paddy tried that but with one leg shorter than the other it meant he was not getting even braking. He would never have passed even a CASA Class 2 medical nowadays...
With heavy pneumatic braking accompanied by lots of hissing as the brake pressure rapidly depleted, the Lincoln came to a stop right at the end of 07. The brake bags on one wheel were burnt through and we had to be towed somewhat ingloriously for a Group Captain OBE AFC, back to the RAAF tarmac. We were lucky not to have over-run into the outskirts of Belgian Gardens. Now I knew why Paddy Heffernan used his shoulder harness.
So there is the story, brought back to life by seeing the triple needle pneumatic air- pressure gauge in the wreckage of the Dove cockpit.
Last edited by Centaurus; 1st Jun 2014 at 15:07.
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Ditto
A great yarn and without being disrespectful I'll quote Monty Python-"And you tell the you young people today that and they won't believe you"
Seriously, with even cockpit layouts of 50 years ago we can't imagine the skill it took to fly WWII era aircraft plus have somebody shooting at you while you do it. Magnificent Men (and Women).
Seriously, with even cockpit layouts of 50 years ago we can't imagine the skill it took to fly WWII era aircraft plus have somebody shooting at you while you do it. Magnificent Men (and Women).
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ABM at Heathcote:
Not sure about NBM but there appears to be another Dove at Heathcote. Anyone know which one? Doesn't appear to be a Riley conversion so rules out NBM.
These pics were 7 months ago. Look forward to your pics DanS333.
Not sure about NBM but there appears to be another Dove at Heathcote. Anyone know which one? Doesn't appear to be a Riley conversion so rules out NBM.
These pics were 7 months ago. Look forward to your pics DanS333.
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Thanks for sharing your pics CRN
The other dove Dick has is VH-DHN ex NTMS
VH-DHN
NBM is with another collector whom asked me not to name him and I will respect his wishes, though he and his collection are well known.
Cheers, Dan
The other dove Dick has is VH-DHN ex NTMS
VH-DHN
NBM is with another collector whom asked me not to name him and I will respect his wishes, though he and his collection are well known.
Cheers, Dan
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VH-NBM in Retirment
As Promised
I could not get inside as the door latch has seized up and the emergency exit hatches are wired shut but looking through the windows i would say its about 95% complete inside, so a dare say hasn't change since it was flying.
Cheers, Dan
P.S She looks a lot less offensive without that Vertical Stab.
I could not get inside as the door latch has seized up and the emergency exit hatches are wired shut but looking through the windows i would say its about 95% complete inside, so a dare say hasn't change since it was flying.
Cheers, Dan
P.S She looks a lot less offensive without that Vertical Stab.
Last edited by DanS333; 23rd Jun 2014 at 19:43. Reason: PS
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And lastly one from her (somewhat) better days
this photo is courtesy of Dick Winterburn
All these photos plus lots more at DH.104 Dove Preservation Group
this photo is courtesy of Dick Winterburn
All these photos plus lots more at DH.104 Dove Preservation Group
Finally...FINALLY.. After all these years, I now know who to blame for sparking my interest in flying.
Pretty much any of you mob that flew in and out of YPID in the early to mid 80s.
My old man bought a tiny piece of land in Woolomai just back from the runway, and in those days there was barely anything there.
As a 7 or 8 year old, I would sit in the backyard wondering how the airplanes didn't crash into the cliff face, and I remember wondering why the engines stopped just before landing (of course you were at idle, i thought they stopped, but now I hear the reports of the equipment you were flying, perhaps I was right at the time.)
A mate's dad flew for royal Brunei airlines (I think thats what they were called?), and he'd come down with us on holidays and tell me all about this and that. I just sat there in awe and dreamed it was me flying. It took nearly 20 years until I followed up on that early awe, and took a TIF. Quite a few years later again, and its you guys I have to blame!
It can be easy to forget that awe sometimes, but I still cant take my eyes of a landing if i'm near a runway, I look up when aircraft flies overhead, and I always enjoy the view from the "office"...
Pretty much any of you mob that flew in and out of YPID in the early to mid 80s.
My old man bought a tiny piece of land in Woolomai just back from the runway, and in those days there was barely anything there.
As a 7 or 8 year old, I would sit in the backyard wondering how the airplanes didn't crash into the cliff face, and I remember wondering why the engines stopped just before landing (of course you were at idle, i thought they stopped, but now I hear the reports of the equipment you were flying, perhaps I was right at the time.)
A mate's dad flew for royal Brunei airlines (I think thats what they were called?), and he'd come down with us on holidays and tell me all about this and that. I just sat there in awe and dreamed it was me flying. It took nearly 20 years until I followed up on that early awe, and took a TIF. Quite a few years later again, and its you guys I have to blame!
It can be easy to forget that awe sometimes, but I still cant take my eyes of a landing if i'm near a runway, I look up when aircraft flies overhead, and I always enjoy the view from the "office"...
While I was working for AoT, Dave "Macca" McKenzie the Chief Engineer had put a proposal to management to replace the PA-31 Chieftains with Doves.
I presume they would have been converted to the Riley specs, to match the Herons.
There must have been a number of low time Doves that would become available in the UK in 1987/8?
The project was knocked back when, they won the Air Ambulance contract and they were going to use a PA-31.
I presume they would have been converted to the Riley specs, to match the Herons.
There must have been a number of low time Doves that would become available in the UK in 1987/8?
The project was knocked back when, they won the Air Ambulance contract and they were going to use a PA-31.
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'D333" thanks for the updated pix of old NBM, looks the same as when I last flew her, in fact looks cleaner!
It was the dog of the two (NBM & ABM), steered like a drunken wench 'till the airspeed came alive. That cabin door was a mongrel also, needed a step & was bloody dangerous in the wet.
It had turbo'd donks if I recall (manually controlled waste gates I think)but of course they where only for ballast:-)
The pix of NBM at MB there showed it had not been there long as the grass was short around it, sat there for yonks!
Wmk2
It was the dog of the two (NBM & ABM), steered like a drunken wench 'till the airspeed came alive. That cabin door was a mongrel also, needed a step & was bloody dangerous in the wet.
It had turbo'd donks if I recall (manually controlled waste gates I think)but of course they where only for ballast:-)
The pix of NBM at MB there showed it had not been there long as the grass was short around it, sat there for yonks!
Wmk2
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CharlieLimaX-Ray, Sounds like it would have been a big undertaking, 87,88 was when the RAF and RN were disposing of their Devons.
2 Ex Royal Navy Sea Devons and 1 RAF C.2 Devon did come out, they were VH-DHI, DVE & EOB.
DHI happily is still flying,DVE is at Bankstown aviation museum in a really bad state after sitting sans GQ at Warnervale for many years and subsequently vandalised.
RAF Devon EOB was assembled at Mackay but never made it in to Australian skies, Sat there from 92 till 2012 when it was disassembled and trucked off to parts unknown(if you can help me out on this I would be very appreciative)
WM2,
It was in surprisingly good shape considering all those years at walan.
Also this was sitting behind it, Right wing and badly repaired stab off DHD
This is my oldman in the right seat of DHD, he needed a shoe horn to fit his 6.4 frame in and he had to fold the rudder peddles up to be half comfy.
Once he was in, he was in for the whole flight as there was no chance of him getting out without full down elevator!
2 Ex Royal Navy Sea Devons and 1 RAF C.2 Devon did come out, they were VH-DHI, DVE & EOB.
DHI happily is still flying,DVE is at Bankstown aviation museum in a really bad state after sitting sans GQ at Warnervale for many years and subsequently vandalised
. RAF Devon EOB was assembled at Mackay but never made it in to Australian skies, Sat there from 92 till 2012 when it was disassembled and trucked off to parts unknown(if you can help me out on this I would be very appreciative)
WM2,
It was in surprisingly good shape considering all those years at walan.
Also this was sitting behind it, Right wing and badly repaired stab off DHD
This is my oldman in the right seat of DHD, he needed a shoe horn to fit his 6.4 frame in and he had to fold the rudder peddles up to be half comfy.
Once he was in, he was in for the whole flight as there was no chance of him getting out without full down elevator!
Last edited by DanS333; 24th Jun 2014 at 20:01. Reason: My spelling and grammar at 530am are not great.
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Sandy Reith
Hi All,
If you a keen to get back in contact with Sandy this is his website, Sandy's Homepage
As it happens he lives just down the road from me.
Cheers, Dan
If you a keen to get back in contact with Sandy this is his website, Sandy's Homepage
As it happens he lives just down the road from me.
Cheers, Dan
