Fast track to CPL in Australia

[Magarnagle]

Definately do as much research as you can, and ask as many questions as possible. Even if you already know what the answers are, you can often tell quite a bit by the way someone phrases their reply.

Have a chat with Fast Track by all means, with your eyes wide open. It could be just what you're looking for, you never know. And take everything you read here with a grain of salt, formulate your own opinions based on as many facts as you can gather.

If you're in Perth (Jandakot) at the moment, you'll probably catch some of the Fast Track students upstairs at the Aero Club cafe, where they are doing their theory and flying these days (not sure what happened to their classroom, and they've switched flying schools a couple of times). Look for the FTPT epaulets sitting at the tables with their laptops studying. They're friendly people, and they'd be able to give you their impressions of the course. I believe they're operating out of a couple of different flying schools over east as well.

[The_Squeaky_Wheel]

The sausage factory re-tools to make cocktail mini-franks.

I don't post here much, but thought this thread needed an update.

Apart from one student taking the owner to court for "alleged" breaches of contract so wide it looks like the Dambusters came to town, these kids have been promised plenty and gotten little more than wishful thinking for their trouble. I've seen the contract they were given, it's a joke.

Another student has taken the better part of a year to get to the point where he is now in line for a F/O job, but he'll be unemployed for another 4 months before he gets in then he'll have to pay for his endorsement I assume.

Other students are failing exam after exam using his outdated and clunky theory course. I dunno if they're using Bob Tait books as well, as suggested, but it wouldn't surprise me if they needed to.

The poor buggers are ropeable, but they don't see any way to get out of it (apart from the student doing the sueing). They should have done their home work before forking out the loot.

I would be very cautious about handing over $90K upfront to anyone, let alone this bloke.

I heard that one bloke said it pretty well: "That guy is so busy making enemies, it's a wonder he ever gets anything else done".

[Chief Wiggam]

I hate to say I told them so, but a valuable life’s lesson learned.

It’s a shame these sort schemes tarnish what should be a fun and rewarding learning experience for these newbies. Unfortunately gen Ys want it all, and want it now – the very attitude these sharks will prey on.

[BrazDriver]

I second that Chief! It's not like they weren't warned! Not just on here but by every flight school out there!

[capt787]

the only 'fast track' course i am aware of is the one offer by uni. however it still took people 8 months to get their CPL, plus another 4 months for ATPL and MECIR

i share the same opinion with the other guys on this forum - 22 weeks for CPL seems like a difficult task. it might happen because theoretically there is enough time to get 150 hours in 110 working days, however when you considering the possibility of U/S aircraft, lack of instructor and bad weather then the chance of finishing in 22 weeks seems a bit slim

just my 2 cents

[Magarnagle]

That's 22 weeks for CPL + MECIR for the Fast Track course.
The thing is, it's taking MUCH longer than that.

If the students were backed up with tutors, realistic management, decent academic resources, reliable aircraft, good study space, a commitment from the company to actually TEACH the students rather than shoving them into the Aero Club cafe with some shonky software, then the course could actually work. As advertised, at least. A foot in the door as a bottom rung F/O with minimal hours.

As long as the students eat, sleep and breathe the training, and they are backed up fully, it could potentially do what it's supposed to.

When the boss is breathing down the students necks telling them to only use half the lights in their old building, or cutting back the internet due to the outrageous cost (I'm guessing the outrageous cost would be somewhat less than $90,000), not supplying toilet paper or any other basics because that's not what management is about, or unceremoniously sacking the very people who were actually worth something in the company, it all seems a little counter productive.

I'm not surprised that students are wanting their money back, not to mention some of the investors in the company.

[boardpig]

sigh....

Aviation has changed somewhat. I can't believe there are folk who are more focused on taking the shortest route, rather than enjoy the experience of the journey!
Bottom line, there is no substitue for experience. Soon the whole thing will be Gen Y, want it now types and those with genuine experience will be mopping up after them...

[xfsd]

Time has past since I started this thread about 4-5 months ago.
I chose the tried route and after three weeks have 11 hours and BAK under my belt - which I am quite happy about - some weather and ac down time have put me a couple of hours back but I'll pick them up next week.
One of the rapid method schools I looked at as late as last week moved from the local airport to me to elsewhere and would have resulted in a 3 hour round trip daily.
I will be glad to complete the PPL exam to then be able to concentrate on one subject at a time for CPL!
Thanks again for the advice and PMs that have resulted in a great outcome

[Kickatinalong]

Fast track

We have some F.T students with us at the moment and all appear to be on time and on budget I'll keep you posted in a couple of weeks when the first one is due out.
It appears to work to me so just hang on bagging everyone out 'cause they are doing things to the way we did it.
"There are non so blind as those who won't see"
Kickatinalong.

[The_Squeaky_Wheel]

Hi Kickatinalong,
I don't know how the students over east are doing, they could all be coming on well as fully experienced junior Neil Armstrongs for all I know.
But whenever I'm out at Jandakot and talk to people who have dealt with FT and talking to the students themselves it's always interesting to hear what new and creative ways the operator has found to shaft someone (students, operators, staff, investors, creditors).
That rings alarm bells to me and it provides an insight into the guy's thought processes and priorities.
All the best to you and your dealings with FT, I hope it all works out for you. There's no chance I'd recommend the course now from what I've seen. If you reckon it works, go for it. It could possibly work if given much better management than I've seen so far.

[Kickatinalong]

Fast Track

The first 4 fast track students have all passed CPL in req'd time 20 /22 hrs, at the moment they are doing their MEIFR, It works in the East Squeaky, I think we have a few starting from scratch again now and I cannot see why it won't continue to work. They have been well vetted and are all bright young men.
Fast Track is and does work.
Kickatinalong.

[Magarnagle]

Originally Posted by XFSD

A leg up is given with an almost guarantee to the right hand seat of a Saab or Metroliner with a regional carrier
Time - 22 weeks
Cost? AUD91k about 88,000USD

Here's a belated update from Fast Track in WA.

So far there have been two student lawsuits against the operator. One is rumoured to have settled out of court, and the other is still in progress (with a spurious counter suit against the student by the operator).

There is at least one more case of legal action from a business partner for debts running back years, possibly another (the amount being claimed is reputed to be a fraction of a million, possibly more, I can't recall if it's a big or small fraction, but any fraction of a million is big bickies).

Only two of the last batch of WA students have so far graduated, since starting in late 2007. One is cooling his heels, still waiting for the allegedly promised right-hand-for-life seat in a Dash 8/Metroliner/SAAB/Insert promised aircraft here after finishing his MECIR around August last year. He is now working in retail.

The other graduate was pretty much told he shouldn't be in any hurry (rather than being treated well for having been stuffed around so much), so he's cut his losses and is flying a 152 in South Australia on bird scaring duties just north of woop woop. At least he's in command. Lucky he managed to avoid that horrible path through the dreaded GA hey?

As far as I'm aware, there is still one student from the last batch who is still with them, and still has a decent number of hours to complete the CPL (18 weeks from November 2007 would be when?).

I believe there are a few prospective students here in WA, not sure how many have signed up. Considering the price has apparently gone up to $100,000 (presumably to cover the lawsuits against Fast Track), and the problems the students have had, I would guess not many.

The head honcho at Fast track is alledgedly still buying the Bob Tait books for students. Obviously the software tutorial package that hasn't been updated since 2001 is still doing the job as well as it ever has.

They are still paying around 40% more than the other Aero Club students to have the benefit of the Fast Track tie and epaulettes, and the status amongst their peers as being "young go getters".

Why is this bozo still around?

*Some of this information is first hand, some second hand, some third hand. But it is all pretty accurate. Some other information has been left out entirely to protect the innocent. There is plenty more damning info out there.

[Magarnagle]

And there's more I forgot to add.

The guy who was on the posters for Fast Track who did graduate in around 22 weeks and go into the right hand seat of a Metro at Skipper's was reportedly still waiting on a command slot. In a Conquest mind you. If he'd gone through the GA route, he would likely have been into (and out of) something like a Conquest well and truly by now, with plenty of command hours under his belt.

This info is a little out of date, I haven't heard much about the guy in a while now, he seems to have slid under the radar.

[The Green Goblin]

The first guy that went through, his name started with a G. That was in the last half of 06. He got onto a Metro with Skippers and last I heard is still an FO. (I think he was promised the 441 for some command, has not happened as far as I am aware)

Now lets think about this, singles 07, Multi - last half of 07 - 08, Turboprop/Airliner end of 08.

Fast Track my arse

[Magarnagle]

Yep, that'd be the guy.

So I guess he still hasn't got the command then.

My understanding is that Skippers had a hard time keeping their check and training people, so he's had very little of the ICUS that was supposed happen. I can't recall what the ICUS situation is at Skipper's now, I think I heard that things have improved a little for those seeking ICUS to move into command???

Either way, I'd bet his posts these days aren't nearly as enthusiastic for Fast Track as they were earlier in this thread....

[The Green Goblin]

Things have improved a little because the experienced guys are not getting plucked into the airlines right now.

But to those regional operators don't count your chickens before they hatch, things will be even worse once the next hiring boom hits us!

[Magarnagle]

In all fairness, I've just heard that G at Skippers is now ready for line training. Looks like he'll get his captaincy after only 3 years! Congrats.

[flyboy_79]

Do your home work..

I would careful signing up to any cadetship/or fast track CPL coarse that offers employment with an airline, after 200hours unless of coarse the cadetship is promoted and/or run by the airline. in which case details should be on the airlines website.
I have no doubt that it has worked out for a few people in the past but with the looming economic crisis and airlines such as virgin looking to cut jobs you could be in for a tough time if you get stiffed for a job at the end of your hard work.
Any coarse that promises to offer you employment with an airline should be able to give you an interview with that airline before serious training begins.

as for the cost? $80,000 to $90,000
I have heard of some coarses costing upwards of $70,000 for a CPL only
Lets look at what $80,000 will get you at your local flying school or aeroclub.

$40,000 Commercial pilots license 150Hours
$14,000 Instructors rating 50hours
$15,000 Multi engine command instrument rating 40hours
$3000 Night VFR 10hours

Total $72,000 Total hours 250
All making you a very attractive pilot.

By all means what a great opportunity if you manage to get into the airline your promised. but I believe that is a very big if.

Just do your homework.

Some of victorias reginonal airlines have fast track cadetships there not cheap but there is certainly opportunity at the end.

[YPJT]

Any possible usefullness of FT went out the window with the economy. A very wise person once said to me "Make sure you keep your powder dry when dealing with FT"

[Aerohooligan]

PRIMA2, be very, very careful in your choice of words. When you say things like 'the airlines are no place for the unmotivated' the obvious implication is that those of us flying the lighties up north are unmotivated and took the easy way out.

Trust me mate, it takes ****loads of motivation to work two jobs, 70+ hours a week, flying minimum hours getting ICUS'd before being checked to line, not being paid for it and just barely paying the bills and the rent from that second job - all the while knowing the industry is on a backward slide and you'll be lucky to still have any kind of a job in a few months time. All this while trying to study ATPLs at night and getting about five or six hours sleep a night...all this while desperately attempting to have some kind of a social life.

And that is to say nothing of the daily struggle it was to complete my training. The long nights fighting with the parents about loans, paying board at home, dropping out of uni to pursue my dream, working six days in order to fly on the seventh and finally being promised a job by an operator up north and forking out $20k for an instrument rating before being informed two days before completion those jobs had been filled by more experienced pilots.

So like I said, be really careful when you make such implications, even if they are unintentional. For the record, I'm pretty sure I know Justin C and I wish him all success, but be aware that you guys in some respects have an easier ride than a lot of other people. You certainly worked hard to be where you are, no one doubts that, but you don't have to endure some of the same suffering the rest of us do.

Please don't take that as a shoot down - just friendly advice. I can see you getting royally toasted for such comments...plus I needed to have a bit of a whinge.