Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA

[600ft-lb]

If they do get locked out, watch it hit the fan everywhere else. I can see mass sickies until the 3 day notice period to take another 48 hours stop work being served happening. Won't the scabs, I mean non-unionised alternative workforce be busy then!

[rudderless1]

Latest Notice

QP: 06412008
16 June 2008

TO: ALAEA MEMBERS - QANTAS and FORSTAFF
RE: EBA UPDATE 16JUNE
Notification to Qantas
Today the ALAEA sent notification to Qantas to clarify our continued plans for work
stoppages as part of the Protected Action authorised in May 2008. Members will note that
in most cases the work stoppages have been split with roughly half the membership
remaining at work during the PIA period. After the last round of stoppages we had a
number of maintenance mishaps reported from the period that managers were working as
LAMEs such as:
Aircraft released with open defects
Defects deferred to ONS without MEL's applied
Direct LA flights with engine oils incorrectly checked
Aircraft pushbacks commenced with chocks in place
Bay changes without gear pins fitted
The ALAEA understands that our actions should not lead to a reduction in safety either
directly or indirectly. As such we have concerns that the use of managers who are not
employed as LAMEs to do our jobs is a reduction in safety. We would rather do the
responsible thing and leave a reduced but fully qualified team of aviation professionals on
deck to carry out their normal duties.
Members Being Targeted
Today's notification also contains instruction for Sydney Domestic LAMEs to return from
Sydney International to their own section if they are acting in DMM positions. This action
is being taken as it has been reported that SIT members are being punished and taken out of
Acting positions as a punitive measure for in the words of one member "because he didn't
get the qfxxx out before curfew last night". If our members are being targeted in this way
we will not allow this to happen by positioning LAMEs from other areas in the section.
STEPHEN PURVINAS
Federal Secretary
"To undertake supervise and certify for the safety of all who fly. "

[off-sked]

Lock-out?

If qf thinks it has the ability to operate with LAME's locked out, they'd have done it already. Any reduction of the number of LAME's at the coal face (due stp wrks or lock-out) will only serve to increase delays and greenies. Even considering the apparent levels of arrogance in management, lock-outs don't make sense.

[Red Baron]

So Good To See

So good to read some solidarity from other parts of QF - finally!

cabinhostie

Is it the first letter of my first name or the first letter of my last name? (signed Duty Maintenance Manager)




C'mon guys get tough, hit 'em hard and fast

Love Your Work Fed Sec, Love Your Work!

[emal140]

If....

If i get this right, QF are letting things roll on as is whilst they 'grow' there alternative workforce. The ALAEA in the meantime can maintain aircraft safety by trying to limit inappropriate personel pretending to fix aircraft, and as a consequence the defects that can't be actioned due to lack of manpower will build up and up. Am I correct so far....

My only question, what if... During the ALAEA dispute over superannuation in the late 70's/early 80's the domestic airlines TAA and Ansett rewrote their Procedures Manuals (CAA endorsed it) effectively removing all of the Australian ports except Melbourne as maintenance ports. Question is how will CASA receive Qantas currently with similar graciousness?

[acslame]

To be honest I don't think CASA want a bar of what is going on.
I haven't heard one report of them taking any action over
breaches to the regulations.
It seems to me that all they are interested in is our
licensing fees.
If anything they would be loving this, look at all
the extra money they would be making with all those
alternate workforce people re sitting AA.

[v900]

"PAF is about twenty years behind the times, as is most of the ADF, fighting the last war"

nice work sunfish, nothing like slagging off the entire defence force, it would appear that you have never served, and remember that term served, as in your country as thousands do every day. They don't do it for the great pay and conditions, they do it in some of the worst conditions imaginable and have no voice. So that somepone like you who gets peeved off at one person, PAF, can then tar everybody with the same brush. And as for fighting the last war, I suggest you do a little bit of research, you may even find that our guys are getting shot at even as I type.... so who's 20 years behind the times now? also don't forget your rant in the hangar during smoko about ADF personal, I'm sure there are a few ex members who would be more than happy to take you outside for some "contact councelling", although to do that would take guts, something that you would know very little about.

[Konehead]

"PAF is about twenty years behind the times, as is most of the ADF, fighting the last war"

nice work sunfish, nothing like slagging off the entire defence force, it would appear that you have never served, and remember that term served, as in your country as thousands do every day. They don't do it for the great pay and conditions, they do it in some of the worst conditions imaginable and have no voice. So that somepone like you who gets peeved off at one person, PAF, can then tar everybody with the same brush. And as for fighting the last war, I suggest you do a little bit of research, you may even find that our guys are getting shot at even as I type.... so who's 20 years behind the times now? also don't forget your rant in the hangar during smoko about ADF personal, I'm sure there are a few ex members who would be more than happy to take you outside for some "contact councelling", although to do that would take guts, something that you would know very little about.

Aplogies for the subject drift.
v900, I think what Sunfish is alluding to is the truism that any defence force, worldwide, prepares for the next war as though it was going to fight the last war again. Why? because they don't have a crystal ball and they can only go on what they know.
Cases in point: WW1 generals sending thousands of men to their deaths against the wire trying to break the trenchlines, holding onto the hope for a "breakthrough" and a return to manouevre warfare after the very successful Prussian defeat of the French in 1870.
The French building the Maginot Line to defend against the strategy and tactics seen by the invading Germans in WW1, only to have it outflanked by manouevre warfare in WW2.
The Americans using the tactics of massive firepower which worked so well in WW2 to fight an insurgency in Vietnam.
The defence forces as a whole can hardly be criticised for the "mistakes" of its leadership or its "failure" to adequately prepare. I don't think Sunfish is levelling such criticism. I'm sure Sunfish, like all of us, appreciates the sacrifice of our countrymen, friends and family serving in the ADF - even PAF.

[shotpeen]

Has anyone bothered to check the AAMP for the comming week. Not only have they scheduled extra A checks up there, theres also S1 overnight check happening as well. fed sec whats happening???. up there being LA

[Sunfish]

V900, actually I have served, and I was probably up to my neck in mud and leeches well before you were born. With certain notable exceptions (all ex RAAF Pilots), I'm not particularly impressed with the RAAF, but being of course Army, I guess you would expect that.

Two of the three worst managers I have ever had the misfortune to work for were ex-RAAF engineering officers who exhibited rigidity of personality and what's called "concrete thinking" (ie: An inability to think creatively) that I think matched a certain person posting here rather well.

I'm actually sorry for poor old P** because when he leaves the service he is in for a bit of a shock, especially if he has had 20 years of service coddling.

P.S. By the way, the whole American "warriors defending our freedoms" bull**** doesn't go down well in Australia, so I'd give that a miss if I were you.

[chanel1234]

Sunfish, what is it that you actually do, i noticed over 2500 posts, you are a real tosser, get a life.

As for the rest of you you are all lost , man i havent seen so much flutter and bullsh*t , your exec is allover the place ,

you guys are being docked 4 hours pay, by my calculations each time you all go out it is 250K , so it wont be long before you are in serious negative territory regardless of any pay increase. Not to worry your leader will be getting paid to run this great strategy.

It is obvious your executive hasnt got a clue about industrial strategy and negotiation and the first rules. I understand that the whole exec team is new to this, may i suggest it is very premature to pat the exec on the back, they havet got a clue, i maybe wrong but looks like you are all loosing, the overtime will start to bite not only the company but those who need it, once that happense the crack will appear and its all over.

Those that are happy with the exec performance, you need to have a cold shower, the reality will soon be evident, You Amateur unionists, you make me cry

[acslame]

On another note how are the delays looking?
Word around the ivory towers is that the LAME's
have resorted to sabotaging aircraft and the company
has proof that there were towels stuffed down the toilet
system ( I can't remember the flight #).
Sounds like QF bulls**t to me.
I thought it was a crook vacuum blower.

It never ceases to amaze the lies that management
are capable of

Maintain the Rage

[Ngineer]

Q: do SIT finish at 0100 or do they finish at 2400 this time of year? 5 or 4 hour stoppage for you guys?

Pretty sure from memory they finish at 0100. Their workload is sometimes printed on the back of Syd Base.

[sky rocket]

If the LAMES were sabotaging the vacuum toilets to upset GD I think you would find a herd of African elephants shoe horned into the bowl.

[Mech-prentice]

SIT finishes at 0100 year-round.

What's the rationale behind an 8-hour roster as a threat to QF? I know it'll increase time spent on handovers, but can't see any other disadvantage to the company. As far as I know, once you adopt an 8-hour-or-shorter roster the company can dictate the layout of that roster without negotiating with the employees. Sounds like you'd be giving them a lot of power for very little gain.

[The Colonel Lives]

Consideration

I would assume that if qantas is run predominately on O/T, the current bans in place would put a significant financial burden on most engineers. That being the case then probably the 5% increase that is being disputed is dwindling down each day for all, until eventually the dispute will become just about saving face (for both ALAEA and QF). As an alternative. Qf could always apply and change procedures to align with JS and VB which probably would reduce the need for a % of engineers for Line Maintenance as argument for an equal level playing field on competition (including MSG3 requirements for new A/C types). Unfortunately like most workplaces, there tends to be 30% of the workforce that do most of the work for the other 70%. That 30% of LAMEs I feel are taking the brunt from a legacy pay (Level) system voted in by the membership 10 years ago by a selfish few who were either close to retiring or carried numerous licence types. These engineers have now seen their time out or remain on high pay scales with no real avenue for the younger generation coming through to take advantage of the higher levels. It might be time to sell the benefits and receive significant pay rises and align with the other Airlines current work procedures including an agreed % percentage of contracted workforce. I know that there are definetly hard working guys in minorities who pretty much carry the airline on a daily basis that deserve large pay increases (up to 20%), but it was the ALAEAs own membership (previous) that set the grounds for your current dispute (ie re - pay scale system) with QF taking a very agressive (and perceived immoral) advantage of your situation leaving the current membership with little avenue to negotiate a fair pay deal for the deserving few. As for alternative workforces, you are right to assume that there is little substance to replace what would be required to run the ops daily, but in some instances I would not under estimate how inefficient some areas of QF Engineering are. From my knowledge there used to be QF LAMEs (a minority)that used to work in KL on holidays and time off which wasn't well received by the locals and expats and maybe some of those guys might repay the favour, unfortunately. Both the ALAEA and QF are looking for an exit strategy and the membership suffer financially daily as a consequence. The stakes are high for both sides with QF risk of having to payout the onflow of pay rises for all unions in a declining market and the ALAEA potentially risking a large membership loss if there is a back down.

[kotoyebe]

scab watch said:
Another smart move by the ALAEA at a point where we are running out of options.
and blubak said:
Fedsec,
when are u expecting qf to get back with their latest costs and maybe even an answer for us?

These are exactly the chinks in the armour that di*kson is looking for. The aim of this whole exercise is to get the best EBA result possible. Please don't get impatient. It was always going to be a long, drawn out process.

As much as we would like change at the top, the main aim is to get the EBA through, not to highlight management failures. You can do that later.

I believe that di*kson has played his best shot. Boy, I could be wrong, and I hope I'm not. But I believe he would have used anything he had up his sleeve by now. His best chance at winning this, is to drag it out longer than you guys can.

There would be too much bad media, and too little back up in terms of alternative workforce, to lock you out.

I'm sure the exec has thought of as many scenarios as possible, and have plans to counter di*kson. Trust them.

[qfbadboy]

things warm up

Any details out there about Tulla dockies being told at individual interviews to work 2 hours O/t (early start )Weds or run the risk of loosing 2 hours pay.
Would this constitute bullying ?
New notice posted covering member lockout and Alaea response.
QF do seem to be focusing more on the man than the ball as things progress.

[The Black Panther]

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/c...7-3122,00.html

RISING fuel costs and tight credit conditions pose a new dilemma for Qantas directors, who are in New York for a crucial board meeting.

Perhpas if the board met locally instead of in New York, it might help to curb costs. Also if they did away with the over the top rewards the management recieve and also the staff recieve it would go a long way towards cutting costs. Why are staff still recieving free flight or paying just 10 percent of the cost for flights when they have shareholders. Why are the staff still being given free parcels of shares every year. yes give them a discount, but dont just give it all away.
Posted by: rob of brisbane 4:34pm today
Comment 1 of 2

and then...

Sure a discount but only if Qantas can't sell it. I'd be asking questions at the next AGM why the executive members have received 15-30% pay rises every year for 8 years while staff are spoon fed 3%. Real wages for Qantas staff have gone backwards thats why the Qantas engineers are currently taking industrial action. Qantas would be in the gutter if the APA takeover was successful last year. The share price is pathetic at $3.40 odd, it was this price 7 years. I think it time the shares asked management to focus on customers and employees then profits will flow to shareholders not the contrary as this management seems to think works. Posted by: Brian Hayweather 5:35pm today
Comment 2 of 2

You are right PAF. Plenty of problems on GD dinner plate. We made be down the list as far as equity goes but we are not going away. Just keep doin' our job day in day out. No dramas. "Management has contributed more to Qantas then bloody unions" It's time they earnt their keep. The elephant in the corner can only be ignored for so long.

[The Black Panther]

Here's another example

Qantas cost cuts nothing to do with oil price: union

At close of business, Qantas shares had fallen 3 per cent on the sharemarket to $3.22.
Meanwhile, Virgin Blue was up 0.9 per cent to 58 cents.

I think the punters are waking up to the Qantas style of management.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin