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Merged: Nomad Return?

Old 11th Apr 2008, 23:01
  #41 (permalink)  
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They got cheap rum and the Samba


I wonder what a new Nomad would cost?
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 04:27
  #42 (permalink)  
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Maybe then GA will be able to make a go of it. Less/nil political interference, no ADF orders and a potential market in SE Asia. Some of those older nomads operated in Thailand and beyond must be getting a bit long in the tooth and if they were happy with the origional product it stands to reason they would be happy with an improved, new production version.

Does anyone know how the Nomad would compare to a Twotter? What about for PJ Ops?
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 05:50
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What sort of speed will the old Nomads do? I reckon if they could get the new ones to cruise at about 150-160 comfortably they'd make a good survey aircraft. Prob a bit cheaper to run that a 406 too.
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 06:48
  #44 (permalink)  
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Unfortunately this is the only photograph I have of the last Douglas Airways Nomad available at present but I'll post another 'in due course.'

T'was DND.
[/IMG]
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 07:02
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Beef up the tail, fuselage plug fore and aft in the N24 and strap 500-600 GGs a side (yes I am hinting at PT6A20s) and you will have a serious airplane. Imagine what it would have been like for the Army to have that configuration AND the Turbo Porters?...Next biggest mistake we made getting rid of them
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 07:05
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone have any information on how Gippsland Aeronautics is travelling? Are they recording good sales for the Airvan.
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 07:16
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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The Nomad is far better than the twotter, as far as a scenic flying machine it is concerned, the only other aircraft you could use is a Dornier 228 (but then you need two pilots, and its a bit quick!). Everybody has a window seat (which is important in scenic flying - you don't want people leaning over someone just to get a view!)

To be honest after operating the Nomad along side the C208B, the Grand Caravan is not all that great an aeroplane (the two B17s in the Nomad burn the same as the PT6 does in an average flight for us). Removing the capital cost out of both aircraft, the Nomad still is cheaper to run per hour than the Caravan, and you have two extra seats to make $$ from (in our configuration anyway).

I would hate to see the Nomad with a PT6, a more powerful RR250 would be fine!

What sort of speed will the old Nomads do?
We flight plan for 150kts, and they're quite happy to truck on doing that.
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 10:52
  #48 (permalink)  
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I saw a GAF Nomad parked up in Broome recently, and had a good old look at it. apart from looking like it would be a drama to nything over half hour legs at a time (the seats looked a bit.......Military) It looked like a good contender for the Caravan slot in the GA market. would be good to see how the numbers compare. wouldn't have all the ASEPTA dramas either.
How many seats are they in a normal configuration?. how would the weight and balance go with full seats?. what sort of range would you expect with full seats?, or conversly, how many seats could you fill with full fuel?.
I certainly would look at one if it could compete with the Grand Caravan in the 14 seat configuration. (the D228 looks good too, except for being slightly over the 5700KG limit..... all the Drama involved with that shy's one away from them)
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 14:21
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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The Nomad at Kota Kinabalu 6/6/1976

I personally watched the the above aircraft enter a high right base for the duty runway, it stalled, spun and after about five turns, crashed into the water. All the eleven persons on board were killed.

A very bad day for the people of Sabah and for aviation.


Tmb
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 21:50
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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How many seats are they in a normal configuration?
We operate our N24s with 15 passenger seats, (14 in the cabin and one up the front) I believe it was certified to put 17 passengers on board.

How would the weight and balance go with full seats?. what sort of range would you expect with full seats?
Ours operate with 360kg of fuel on board, which is two hours worth, and can carry 15 pax with an average weight of 83kg, and we are at our VFR MAUW of 4264kg. MAUW IFR is 4145kg.

I just hope that with all the changes Gippsland Aeronautics are proposing, the empty weight doesn't increase too much!
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Old 12th Apr 2008, 22:04
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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I just hope that with all the changes Gippsland Aeronautics are proposing, the empty weight doesn't increase too much!
I think that given the advances in composites in the last 30 years and current crop of integrated avionics systems with all the belles and whistles including synthetic vision will allow Gippsland to keep the weight growth to an absolute minimum.

The new Twin Otter has faced the issues and looks close to coming out at below 7500lb fully equipped including air-con through the use of these ideas.
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Old 13th Apr 2008, 00:17
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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New Twin Otter $4.2 mil USD, be interesting to see what a new Nomad configuration would cost. Then one can compare.
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Old 13th Apr 2008, 02:38
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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I'd say looking at the Airvan, and the advancements in technology Gippsland made there, a new Nomad should be heavier, slower, more uncomfortable to sit in, an have worse Ergonomics
Should still get off a short strip tho!!
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Old 13th Apr 2008, 06:14
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I enjoyed my time sitting in the Gonad -a few quirks, but I enjoyed it all the same. As empacher said, unbeatable for scenic work.

How about the control feedback from the stabilator in turb

From what I understand, the original design philosophy had alot to do with the problems on the Nomad, especially in respect to the empennage area. The original design called for the entire aft end to hinge from the side of the fuse where the taper begins, the whole thing swinging to the side to allow unimpeded loading. As the design progressed the aft swinging tail had to be made lighter and lighter to cope with the swing. The design process was very late in the peice when it was finally decided to can the swing due to aft CG issues. The design basically froze at that point with the exception of the aft fuse being shut never to open again. The control runs etc are still routed down the hinge side of the fuse as they would've been.

So the Nomad we saw was dictated by that original design concept, hence the weight saving stabilator etc. As someone mentioned already, if a conventional empennage of composite construction and comparable weight were to appear on there...Maybe ditch the full span flaperons (awesome STOL idea, but needed in service?), in doing so the complicated spoiler/aileron mixer wouldn't be needed. Some beefed up RR's, some whizz bang weight saving screens up front...

They might be onto something. I'd get in one again.
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Old 13th Apr 2008, 07:02
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Ther last dozen or so operated by the army already had glass cockpits. Most did about 100 to 200 hrs before being sent to our neighbors in the north.
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Old 13th Apr 2008, 09:23
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Nomad huh? a great bird! 4,000 hrs plus on type, mostly in PNG. Few very long ferry flight as well. Great pilot seats when maintained properly, after a 6 hr plus surveillance flight, there was no pain.
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Old 13th Apr 2008, 12:16
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Do we really need another slow, short field aircraft, built in one of the largest countries in the world?

Surely speed and payload, the Airvan or Nomad do not provide both, is a better proposition.

The Swiss and Brazilians are building fast, and great lifting machines. In the case of the PC12, short field as well.

I guess time will tell.
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Old 13th Apr 2008, 13:02
  #58 (permalink)  
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I seem to remeber seeing several parked up in Cebu, in various states of disrepair and disassembly. was hard to taxi past them and look where I was going. there was a couple of Heuys there as well.
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Old 14th Apr 2008, 10:16
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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At least if Gippsland Aero take the Nomad over, we won't have the joys of dealing with the union run and controlled GAF like in the good old days.

Talking to an old Nomad man he reckons they spares prices were okay until the "handling" fee was added on to the part which was something like $172.00 in the mid 1980's.

I suppose Gippsland will save a few pounds on the Nomad by not having a rudder trim like in the GA-8?
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Old 14th Apr 2008, 19:11
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Go Nomad!

I hope this project really succeeds as this is an excellent aircraft in need of a second life where it's capabilities can be exploited more fully. I'd like to see it on floats and giving the Twin Otter and Caravan a run for their money.
Australia should be producing products at the highest levels of aviation standards and the Nomad is fine example.
I've heard from Gippsland about their plans but it's not final yet by any means.
If I had a choice, I'd rather operate the Nomad than the Harbin Y12 or the new Twin Otter! Economics and design improvements will give the Nomad a serious advantage. It's a STOL aircraft and so shouldn't be compared with the plethora of light single turbines out there. Different horse for different courses after all!
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