Merged: ADSB

[LeadSled]

Dear James,

You really don't understand, do you, and probably never will.

I have never said that ADS-B will not play a major roll in ATC in the future, in fact, in the last post, I suggested you and a few others look at what Eurocontrol and FAA intend for ADS-B ---- another ATC tool.

None of that needs to mandate ADS-B in GA for low level operations, or even high level, for that matter --- you do understand why, do you ??? Probably not.

Do you have any understanding of our bi-lateral obligations for airspace access --- and Australia's legal ability to impose a unique "Australian mandate" on foreign aircraft ---- don't kid yourself about Australia's power (legally or diplomatically) to refuse access to foreign aircraft.

Fleet rollover will mean that the proportion of the Australian airline fleet that has (at least) ADS-B OUT will increase, but many airline aircraft presently on the Australian register will never be retrofitted, because it is too expensive ---- ask those operators who have aircraft where the holder of the Type Certificate is Stork --- as just one example.

There will be no "mandate" that stops them operating, the economy can't afford it.

By your own admissions, you are the bloke with all the contacts, what does Boeing say about retrofitting ADS-BOUT (let alone IN) to B737NG-700/800/900?? ---- if they didn't come factory fitted.

Booze Allan Hamilton (BAH) knows the answer to the above question, Dick Smith knows (because he asked Boeing, Airbus and FAA), and I know the BAH answer, do you??

Actually, ADS-B always was relatively simple policy issue, but the issue was hijacked by quite unrealistic expectations on the part of a number of players, with a number of motivations, varying from the venal to the misguided, through to those blinded by their rose colored glasses ---

----none of whom were ever going to directly foot the bill.

Into which category do do you fit ??

Tootle pip!!

[Bob Murphie]

james dribble said

And for those who stood to get ADS-B fitted for FREE, Dick, but now have to pay for it

So there you go Jabawocky, no need to kick the cat, it's been mandated.

[james michael]

Leaddy

Thanks for answering what I did not ask or say. To save further convolution on your part

Let's now await whether a mandate occurs for above 29,000'.

(PS You quoted ASAC earlier - why does the thought 'some exemptions' come to mind )

Murphie

A beautiful demo of dumb. The removal of the XIF subsidy associated with the JCP mandate means any chance of GA being subsidised vanishes until long after ADS-B arrives. It does not imply a mandate. No wonder you had trouble following the debate.

You and Leaddy should cut back on the dickmite or you'll become that brand of matches - I forget what they are called.

Let's await the official release of the JCP demise.

[Bob Murphie]

james dribble. My post was directed at the organ grinder, not the monkey.

Jabawocky. Do you have irrational fears of mid air collision? Do you suffer from dystychiphobia? Miracle cures available for the GA pilot; Zaon Flight Systems - PCAS MRX Overview

[james michael]

Bob

A second beautiful display of dumb. No wonder you were lost with the JCP. Have you been imbibing jet fuel?

Tell us how the unit you posted works outside radar cover

(Is that an organ I hear grinding, or your teeth).

[Bob Murphie]

Zaon Flight Systems - PCAS MRX Technical Specifications

Receiver signal modes X Y A C S 2 3a

[Plazbot]

That's a nifty little box.

[james michael]

Bob

Thank you for that demo of technical superiority.

You will note that is the RX specifications.

Most Oz a/c have a MODE A/C transponder.

You will find that the little light shines when you are
1. Pinged by radar
2. Pinged by TCAS

Then the transponder RESPONDS.

So, tell us again - how does the unit receive information when away from radar coverage - what tells the target a/c transponder to respond?

[Bob Murphie]

Receiver signal modes A. C.and S. This tells me it receives these signals? Why would you need to be in a radar environment if it works like TCAS? Does TCAS not work outside the J curve?

You are the expert in everything, so you tell us. I am drawing Jabawocky's attention to a device that Hawker Pacific, you know that Australian mob, advertises as agents a portable GA collision avoidance for what appears to be a very cheap price. This may allay some of his fears of flying. They advertise a phone number, 1 800 654 983 so you can ring and ask yourself.

REf P12 Recreational Aviation Australia magazine November 08.

Again the post was not intended as some sort of an invitation for you to vex me. You are the bloke who fraudlently promised the world to everyone and then couldn't deliver on your sales speil. You should hang your head in shame.

[james michael]

Bob

Now everyone will understand why you shouldn't have been allowed near the ADS-B debate.

Receives - exactly.

The transponder in an aircraft responds to interrogation. MSSR and TCAS are two such interrogations. One reason TCAS is so expensive is that it has to TRANSMIT an interrogation.

The el cheapo passive units receive information only when something interrogates. So they are not worth a pinch of nanny goat excreta away from radar or TCAS.

I find nothing in the item you posted to assist Jabba as you claimed. In radar you already have ATC cover, the TCAS a/c pinging you knows your whereabouts - BUT AWAY FROM THAT YOU ARE BLIND.

Don't talk to me about fraudulent. I endorsed something for the good of aviation safety and aircraft owners. Something you bagged but could not explain why to Peuce. And obviously from this latest 'drivel' don't understand. Go hang your own head in shame and go back to imbibing Avtur.

But first read up and comprehend why you have no understanding of the Zaon unit. The price was the dead giveaway for starters.

[Bob Murphie]

Then it gives an added level of VFR safety in the radar environment. doesn't it? That's if ATC are monitoring VFR paints now, and it gives two way TCAS information. You're the one who making noise about absolute safety.

peuce was dealing in hypotheticals.

[james michael]

Don't apologise to me for your lack of comprehension, apologise to Jabba.

Fact is it does not do what you claimed - it is USELESS without MSSR/TCAS as it is PASSIVE. To quote your other mentor earlier today "You really don't understand, do you, and probably never will." Still, you can find out more - follow your own suggestion "They advertise a phone number, 1 800 654 983 so you can ring and ask yourself."

Alternatively, ADS-B IN works in ALL airspace drongo. Unless you go down the Dick path mentioned today of UAT like USA where you need 1090/UAT translator stations.

[Tidbinbilla]

Well children, this thread has once again degenerated to a one-upmanship tit for tat argument between Messrs. Murphie and Michael.

Perhaps it's time for you all to move on to another forum where your efforts will be more appreciated.