Instructors with attitude problems
I know how you feel, unfortunately these tossers are well represented at all levels of aviation. I've had my share and from what I've heard from other pilots, so have they.
If you make airline, some captains can be the same.
Fortunately these people are in the minority. Most people I've flown with range absolute pleasure to fly with to okay. Sometimes it's a personality thing and a change of instructor works wonders.
You will need to learn to deal with the ***holes though, you find them everywhere.
If you make airline, some captains can be the same.
Fortunately these people are in the minority. Most people I've flown with range absolute pleasure to fly with to okay. Sometimes it's a personality thing and a change of instructor works wonders.
You will need to learn to deal with the ***holes though, you find them everywhere.
AustralianMade
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Chimbu Chuckle's Flying Circus
Learn to fly with a living legend!
We specialise in low (and I do mean low!) flying, beat-ups, and mustering indigenous people!
Learn to fly with a living legend!
We specialise in low (and I do mean low!) flying, beat-ups, and mustering indigenous people!
What a cracker, I'd love to see some footage of that stuff!
"I'd love to see some footage of that stuff!"
Try this:
http://www.fototime.com/69FC8CA346C59AC/conv.wmv
Dr
Try this:
http://www.fototime.com/69FC8CA346C59AC/conv.wmv
Dr
Counting myself lucky after reading this.
Got through CPL and Instrument Rating, and never once was yelled at.
My biggest problem was every instructor I had seemed to suffer air-sickness. They always got out pale, sweating, and shaking, and often were never seen at the airport again?
Got through CPL and Instrument Rating, and never once was yelled at.
My biggest problem was every instructor I had seemed to suffer air-sickness. They always got out pale, sweating, and shaking, and often were never seen at the airport again?
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I had an instructor for my CIR who should never have been in the business. You are sure to start off on the wrong foot every time and it's difficult to learn in such an environment.
I quickly changed instructor (and FS) to a guy whose motto was " If you tell them they'll listen, and if you show them they'll learn".
Totally different approach, with far better outcome. I went from nervous and apprehensive to relaxed and looking forward to the next lesson.
I quickly changed instructor (and FS) to a guy whose motto was " If you tell them they'll listen, and if you show them they'll learn".
Totally different approach, with far better outcome. I went from nervous and apprehensive to relaxed and looking forward to the next lesson.
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AustralianMade
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If I tell you I'll have to hunt you down and kill you!
In fact if you bring a good Merlot and a good Shiraz I'll PM you my blurry address!
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This guy is not an instructor, he may have completed his 50 hrs FIR and paid his money and has been signed off, but he is certainly not an instructor in the true sense of the word. How many have honestly not cut the grade for a grade 3? usually only under CASA FOI tests.On the other side of the coin you will find the crabby old instructor who may be better off not in the industry any longer either.
Anyone who yells or shouts at students should have a lesson/s in instructor/student relations and seek help. In all my years as a CFI i came across many many students who suffered at the hands of these incompetent imbeciles. If a students workload is so high as to warrant an instruction through a raised voice, that student may be nearing saturation point (doesn't hear) and perhaps the Instructor should "take control of the situation". You can load a guy up under a little pressure and he will still hear you and reply to questions and small talk, increase the pressure slowly and he takes a little longer to respond, until the guys workload is so high you could tell him you are bonking his missus and he still won't hear you......maxed out.......his brain can no longer handle the workload. If the guy is really goofing up, yelling at him won't help, so go back to INSTRUCTION etc etc etc.
Anyone who yells or shouts at students should have a lesson/s in instructor/student relations and seek help. In all my years as a CFI i came across many many students who suffered at the hands of these incompetent imbeciles. If a students workload is so high as to warrant an instruction through a raised voice, that student may be nearing saturation point (doesn't hear) and perhaps the Instructor should "take control of the situation". You can load a guy up under a little pressure and he will still hear you and reply to questions and small talk, increase the pressure slowly and he takes a little longer to respond, until the guys workload is so high you could tell him you are bonking his missus and he still won't hear you......maxed out.......his brain can no longer handle the workload. If the guy is really goofing up, yelling at him won't help, so go back to INSTRUCTION etc etc etc.
I have long held the view the way we employ/ train instructors in Australia needs a total re vamp. The problem is instructing is seen as a way to get hours fast so a budding commercial pilot can move up the ladder to regionals etc, then to airlines. This ofcourse means we end up with the least experianced teaching the non experianced. I cannot think of any other industry that does that. Certainly not surface transport driving instructors let alone trades and proffessions. Imagine a newly trained tradesman or train driver training an apprentice how to do something he/she is only just coming to terms with. It is simply not allowed unless you first have suffiecent on the job experiance.
I believe it is long overdue the system allowed experianced private pilots to instruct certainly Ab initio in a club inviroment just like the Gliding fraternity do without the onerous cost of first getting a CPL just so they can volunteer their services on weekends etc. And yes they would need some training in the art of instructing so all are on the same page as do the gliding clubs. This would also keep costs down and provide a far better instructor as he /she would be doing it for the love of flying and with the benifit of years of experiance unlike the present system with snotty nosed kids main aim of looking to move up the aviation ladder
I believe it is long overdue the system allowed experianced private pilots to instruct certainly Ab initio in a club inviroment just like the Gliding fraternity do without the onerous cost of first getting a CPL just so they can volunteer their services on weekends etc. And yes they would need some training in the art of instructing so all are on the same page as do the gliding clubs. This would also keep costs down and provide a far better instructor as he /she would be doing it for the love of flying and with the benifit of years of experiance unlike the present system with snotty nosed kids main aim of looking to move up the aviation ladder
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AustralianMade
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Well said PA39, it is just basic 'people skills' you are talking about. Nor is it rocket science to treat people the way you would like to be treated yourself.
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Bring a good red!!!!!
If he does he's probably pinched it from his brudder !
And the yelling instructor was prob. the famous "cranky old c***" at YBAF,who told me one day in the 80's after CIFR training that when he raised his voice he wasn't angry ,just trying to make a point!
I said "that's OK N***....it's like going to church....it might give you the ****s....but occasionally you get something out of it!
Then we 'd go to the bar at RACQ and you'd pick up a few clues about aviation that's not in the text books.
Flopt
And the yelling instructor was prob. the famous "cranky old c***" at YBAF,who told me one day in the 80's after CIFR training that when he raised his voice he wasn't angry ,just trying to make a point!
I said "that's OK N***....it's like going to church....it might give you the ****s....but occasionally you get something out of it!
Then we 'd go to the bar at RACQ and you'd pick up a few clues about aviation that's not in the text books.
Flopt
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I pre-emt this by first saying that I have had some of what I believe to be the best instructors, but when I was working in the Kimberley or FNQ, the following was widely agreed:
Not all instructors are w@#kers, but all w@#ankers that you meet in flying are or have generally been instructors
Anyway, agree with most posts here, everyone learns differently, the right instructor for you is one who you respect enough to put the work in for, trust enough to ask the silly (lifesaving!) questions, and who allows you to progress at the best of your potential in the shortest possible time (money!).
Otherwise, vote with your wallet and piss 'em off!
Forgetabowdit
Not all instructors are w@#kers, but all w@#ankers that you meet in flying are or have generally been instructors
Anyway, agree with most posts here, everyone learns differently, the right instructor for you is one who you respect enough to put the work in for, trust enough to ask the silly (lifesaving!) questions, and who allows you to progress at the best of your potential in the shortest possible time (money!).
Otherwise, vote with your wallet and piss 'em off!
Forgetabowdit
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When I went through USAF Pilot training years ago "Fear, Sarcasm and Ridicule" was the standard instructional technique. Going through pilot training was treated like a right of passage. You just had to suirvive the haze. Over 60% of my class washed out. Now after 3000 hours of AF IP time I am proud to say I have never used that method. At least I learned something...
mostlytossas, I would venture that if the PPL pilot is as experienced as you say they are, they would easily meet the requirements for a CPL anyway, just a quick dual check or two and a flight test, as well as a few exams. Then, the training on how to instruct could come from, well, the instructor rating.
The problem with the current system is not that young "snotty nosed" people are instructing, it's that experienced pilots are not. Whether that's because there's not enough incentive for them to come back to GA, or they're just not willing to give up the jet job, it's irrelevant. There are not enough experienced instructors. Regardless of what you think of grade IIIs, they are not the problem. Indeed, if all the "snot noses" quit tomorrow, a high number of schools would have to close down, as they would have not only no experienced instructors, but no instructors at all.
Arrrr
The problem with the current system is not that young "snotty nosed" people are instructing, it's that experienced pilots are not. Whether that's because there's not enough incentive for them to come back to GA, or they're just not willing to give up the jet job, it's irrelevant. There are not enough experienced instructors. Regardless of what you think of grade IIIs, they are not the problem. Indeed, if all the "snot noses" quit tomorrow, a high number of schools would have to close down, as they would have not only no experienced instructors, but no instructors at all.
Arrrr
Not all instructors are w@#kers, but all w@#ankers that you meet in flying are or have generally been instructors
Generally these people are what you'd label, "circuit heros" and not true instructors. We found there was a difference!
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CCT hero`s lol thats gold...
In the short time i`ve been flying i`ve had a few different instructors but I was never yelled at once during my cpl course, but my main ifr instructor was a total dead****, it came to the point where I thought i was unable to fly ifr, and was so nervous and uncomfortable that I dreaded the thought of each "lesson"... and performed poorly when i was with him. Needless to say i should`ve told him where to go. Whilst being aware of your own limitations, confidence in your own ablities is everying in flying safely, and yelling and carrying on like a schoolgirl does nothing for a student. I would reach over and pull out his headset jacks everytime he says anything that discourages you
In the short time i`ve been flying i`ve had a few different instructors but I was never yelled at once during my cpl course, but my main ifr instructor was a total dead****, it came to the point where I thought i was unable to fly ifr, and was so nervous and uncomfortable that I dreaded the thought of each "lesson"... and performed poorly when i was with him. Needless to say i should`ve told him where to go. Whilst being aware of your own limitations, confidence in your own ablities is everying in flying safely, and yelling and carrying on like a schoolgirl does nothing for a student. I would reach over and pull out his headset jacks everytime he says anything that discourages you
Capt Arr,
You missed my point, I am not against snotty nosed kid instructors per see as they have to learn somewhere but I think there is a great wealth of talent out there un tapped that would make very good instructors if they did not have to pay out 1,000's dollars doing the CPL first. It is not a matter of just a dual check and an exam. You tell me who would be better at instructing the basics, a retiring Tafe teacher,LAME, tradesman, other teacher etc with 40yrs instructing in their given fields or the current system. Sure they would need a certain amount of flying experiance be it 1000hrs,500hrs whatever the powers that be decide first ,but after that why would anyone volunteer to do it at a club level if they had to spend there own money to get the CPL? Does this suddenly make you all knowledgeable? Afterall flying is not rocket science and at private level the theory can be all done in a couple of weeks, the maths is basic, and the entire exercise up to PPL providing the student has the funds can be done in well under 1year. Try learning a trade, even a basic one like bricklaying that quick let alone electrical, refrigeration, telecomunications etc.
My point is a tradesman,LAME, etc who has flown all over the country on jobs or for pleasure with say 1000 hrs is likely going to be a far better instructor and more experianced than someone with 10000hrs just doing circuits or in the training area. To prove my point you may remember the instructor who crashed a Baron ( I think) near Canberra enroute to the snow from Bankstown some 15yrs ago due to not allowing for the COG movement with the fuel burn off. He was on paper an experianced instructor with heaps of hours. When BASI looked into the matter it was found nearly all of his flying was done in single engine training aircraft in the circuit or training area.
Flying is not hard, in fact I believe easier than learning to drive merely because you have not got the amount of other traffic coming at you from all directions along with mixed speed zones and road conditions etc.
What flying does not allow is getting away with major errors.
Why not tap into the nations true wealth of knowledge,rather than pretend flying is something it is not, and reduce further these man made errors.
You missed my point, I am not against snotty nosed kid instructors per see as they have to learn somewhere but I think there is a great wealth of talent out there un tapped that would make very good instructors if they did not have to pay out 1,000's dollars doing the CPL first. It is not a matter of just a dual check and an exam. You tell me who would be better at instructing the basics, a retiring Tafe teacher,LAME, tradesman, other teacher etc with 40yrs instructing in their given fields or the current system. Sure they would need a certain amount of flying experiance be it 1000hrs,500hrs whatever the powers that be decide first ,but after that why would anyone volunteer to do it at a club level if they had to spend there own money to get the CPL? Does this suddenly make you all knowledgeable? Afterall flying is not rocket science and at private level the theory can be all done in a couple of weeks, the maths is basic, and the entire exercise up to PPL providing the student has the funds can be done in well under 1year. Try learning a trade, even a basic one like bricklaying that quick let alone electrical, refrigeration, telecomunications etc.
My point is a tradesman,LAME, etc who has flown all over the country on jobs or for pleasure with say 1000 hrs is likely going to be a far better instructor and more experianced than someone with 10000hrs just doing circuits or in the training area. To prove my point you may remember the instructor who crashed a Baron ( I think) near Canberra enroute to the snow from Bankstown some 15yrs ago due to not allowing for the COG movement with the fuel burn off. He was on paper an experianced instructor with heaps of hours. When BASI looked into the matter it was found nearly all of his flying was done in single engine training aircraft in the circuit or training area.
Flying is not hard, in fact I believe easier than learning to drive merely because you have not got the amount of other traffic coming at you from all directions along with mixed speed zones and road conditions etc.
What flying does not allow is getting away with major errors.
Why not tap into the nations true wealth of knowledge,rather than pretend flying is something it is not, and reduce further these man made errors.