$48 million allocated to terrorism prevention – worthwhile?
Thread Starter
$48 million allocated to terrorism prevention – worthwhile?
Federal Police and terrorism response officers will be visiting various country airports to carry out security reviews. (See here).
Does anyone know which terrorist risk they are actually addressing? To spend that much money at a place like Bourke (which to my knowledge doesn’t even have an adequate fence to keep kangaroos out) seems like a misallocation of resources.
Are they considering that a small plane could take off from Bourke and head towards a major city, possibly Canberra? Why wouldn’t the small plane take off from an airport like Goulburn, or a farmer’s airstrip even closer?
This is a serious enquiry. What is the actual terrorist risk being addressed at a place like Bourke?
Does anyone know which terrorist risk they are actually addressing? To spend that much money at a place like Bourke (which to my knowledge doesn’t even have an adequate fence to keep kangaroos out) seems like a misallocation of resources.
Are they considering that a small plane could take off from Bourke and head towards a major city, possibly Canberra? Why wouldn’t the small plane take off from an airport like Goulburn, or a farmer’s airstrip even closer?
This is a serious enquiry. What is the actual terrorist risk being addressed at a place like Bourke?
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That's right Dick and Al Quaeda has decided as well that it is cost prohibitive to send a team to Bourke ( although they are rumoured to have a number of disgruntled kangaroo insurgents active in the Bourke area ) and will instead look at other fields.....
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Dick,
Having mulled over this many times in the past and contributed to the JCPA Report 406, I can only imagine that security at some of the outlying airports is aimed at preventing potential terrorists from joining an RPT flight at Bourke complete with bomb and detonating that bomb on the tarmac after the flight arrives at KSA. It is an easy way for a terrorist to get airside at KSA without needing an ASIC.
But this doesn't explain why pilots need ASICs. We don't need RPT to fly into KSA (just a deep wallet to pay the landing fees) and therefore don't need to depart from a security-controled airport.
I have taken this up with my local MP, Jason Wood (now in opposition), and despite pleas not to reply with only a synopsis of Liberal Party policy, that's exactly what I got! It would appear that the important thing for the Libs was to give the impression that they were improving security rather than actually improving security.
$48 million to prevent terrorism is well spent, if it actually prevents terrorism.
Walrus
Having mulled over this many times in the past and contributed to the JCPA Report 406, I can only imagine that security at some of the outlying airports is aimed at preventing potential terrorists from joining an RPT flight at Bourke complete with bomb and detonating that bomb on the tarmac after the flight arrives at KSA. It is an easy way for a terrorist to get airside at KSA without needing an ASIC.
But this doesn't explain why pilots need ASICs. We don't need RPT to fly into KSA (just a deep wallet to pay the landing fees) and therefore don't need to depart from a security-controled airport.
I have taken this up with my local MP, Jason Wood (now in opposition), and despite pleas not to reply with only a synopsis of Liberal Party policy, that's exactly what I got! It would appear that the important thing for the Libs was to give the impression that they were improving security rather than actually improving security.
$48 million to prevent terrorism is well spent, if it actually prevents terrorism.
Walrus
Thread Starter
Walrus 7, that is the whole point I’m making. There is actually no security checking at Bourke – so a terrorist wouldn’t have to get a pair of wire cutters to cut through the fence, he or she would simply buy an air ticket.
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If they gave me the $48M, I would do the work for them, give them a far better result that was actually useful..........and then I would retire on the remaining $46.9M
Dick this is the kind of BS that needs fixing........that money would be better spent on an ATC tower at Avalon or something else..........ADSB perhaps?
J
Dick this is the kind of BS that needs fixing........that money would be better spent on an ATC tower at Avalon or something else..........ADSB perhaps?
J
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Let me see if I understand what your saying Dick...
That because there is no security at Bourke or many regional airports we should continue to do absolutely nothing......
We should have the front door guarded like Fort Knox but leave the back door wide open....
At the moment we have the two extremes of everything in the main airports and nothing at most regional fields.....and that is more stupid than this proposal.
That because there is no security at Bourke or many regional airports we should continue to do absolutely nothing......
We should have the front door guarded like Fort Knox but leave the back door wide open....
At the moment we have the two extremes of everything in the main airports and nothing at most regional fields.....and that is more stupid than this proposal.
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Are they considering that a small plane could take off from Bourke and head towards a major city, possibly Canberra? Why wouldn’t the small plane take off from an airport like Goulburn, or a farmer’s airstrip even closer?
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I have absolutely no training and don't kid myself that I know anything about counter-terrorism, so it's a little difficult to have an opinion. If the experts need $48M, part of which is spent on security for country airports, then I am content in the knowledge that those professionals know what they are doing. They would probably love to have 10 times that amount, but have to make do with what the taxpayer can afford.
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Dick et al,
If Bourke (as one case) has fencing only then the whole exercise is indeed pointless. The only thing that will increase security is baggage screening. Sink the $48 million into that and we might be getting somewhere.
On a controversial point, why not take some of that money and form a CAP-type auxilliary with volunteer pilots to watch over the regional (genuine regional - not EN or MB "regional") airports among other things (like filling in for ailing Dorniers). No-one can recognise strange goings-on around an airport better than a pilot.
Walrus
If Bourke (as one case) has fencing only then the whole exercise is indeed pointless. The only thing that will increase security is baggage screening. Sink the $48 million into that and we might be getting somewhere.
On a controversial point, why not take some of that money and form a CAP-type auxilliary with volunteer pilots to watch over the regional (genuine regional - not EN or MB "regional") airports among other things (like filling in for ailing Dorniers). No-one can recognise strange goings-on around an airport better than a pilot.
Walrus
Thread Starter
Lowerlobe, no I’m not actually saying that we should continue to do absolutely nothing. I’m asking what we are actually doing at airports like Bourke. Would it be better to use the money to expand the security checking? That is, gradually increase the number of airports where passengers are security checked if this is an effective way of spending our money.
I want to know what the money spent at places like Bourke and Birdsville actually does to help security. What I have seen at these airports is a sham. It is a complete waste and does nothing other than to let the public live under a delusion that something effectively is being done.
The ASIC is the same thing. I fly with friends in America who have a Falcon 10. They fly all across the United States, sometimes with me, and they have no ASIC equivalent. It is just not required and the US is the country of September 11.
It seems to me that this new Government and new Minister should re-look at how we are spending these resources, and rather than putting up wire fences at Birdsville, use some of the money saved to put in an x-ray machine at an airport which still does not have one.
I want to know what the money spent at places like Bourke and Birdsville actually does to help security. What I have seen at these airports is a sham. It is a complete waste and does nothing other than to let the public live under a delusion that something effectively is being done.
The ASIC is the same thing. I fly with friends in America who have a Falcon 10. They fly all across the United States, sometimes with me, and they have no ASIC equivalent. It is just not required and the US is the country of September 11.
It seems to me that this new Government and new Minister should re-look at how we are spending these resources, and rather than putting up wire fences at Birdsville, use some of the money saved to put in an x-ray machine at an airport which still does not have one.
"I want to know what the money spent at places like Bourke and Birdsville actually does to help security. What I have seen at these airports is a sham. It is a complete waste and does nothing other than to let the public live under a delusion that something effectively is being done."
Dick
If you think Bourke and Birdsville are a sham - don't go to Cooktown!
They have a security fence and a secure gate (?) with a keypad lock - but if you care to walk 10 m to the left of the security gate you can just jump over a waist high fence (as I did!).
Dr
Dick
If you think Bourke and Birdsville are a sham - don't go to Cooktown!
They have a security fence and a secure gate (?) with a keypad lock - but if you care to walk 10 m to the left of the security gate you can just jump over a waist high fence (as I did!).
Dr
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The whole thing at country airports is and will continue to be a sham, councils can't afford to security fence whole airports.
It was a knee jerk reaction to a threat that was not present in an effort to mollify the public.
Initial funding was given directly to councils via a grant scheme which has dried up so there is no more "capital" (fencing) works in progress anywhere.
The rapid reaction force is at best about the level of the S.E.S and really a do gooder exercise.
How anyone could believe a 4 hour reaction time from a capital city to an outpost like Birdsville following a threat report is in any way effective is quite bizarre.
It was a knee jerk reaction to a threat that was not present in an effort to mollify the public.
Initial funding was given directly to councils via a grant scheme which has dried up so there is no more "capital" (fencing) works in progress anywhere.
The rapid reaction force is at best about the level of the S.E.S and really a do gooder exercise.
How anyone could believe a 4 hour reaction time from a capital city to an outpost like Birdsville following a threat report is in any way effective is quite bizarre.
Talk about wasted money,
how about tennant creek. no rpt service, a security fence recently erected with a busted keypad lock and the fence only goes around 2 sides of the airport. i heard rumours the costs were getting close to the $80,000 mark. Biggest plane ive ever seen there was a 402.
not to mention you can simply walk through the (unnattended, unlocked) terminal staright onto the apron.
how about tennant creek. no rpt service, a security fence recently erected with a busted keypad lock and the fence only goes around 2 sides of the airport. i heard rumours the costs were getting close to the $80,000 mark. Biggest plane ive ever seen there was a 402.
not to mention you can simply walk through the (unnattended, unlocked) terminal staright onto the apron.
So Jaba, what acts of terrorism are likely to be initiated from Birdsville?
Refusal to put a gold coin in the RFDS jar for taking a piccy in the bar of the pub?
Dr
Where was it that had a 3' security fence complete with keypad lock - where you could just learn over the top of the gate and read the gate code that was written on the other side - Esperance? Coober Pedy?
Refusal to put a gold coin in the RFDS jar for taking a piccy in the bar of the pub?
Dr
Where was it that had a 3' security fence complete with keypad lock - where you could just learn over the top of the gate and read the gate code that was written on the other side - Esperance? Coober Pedy?
Go to Gate 6 at Jandakot on a week day - ring the phone number on the gate and a security guy comes and lets you in if you wave your ASIC at him.
Go to Gate 6 at Jandakot on a weekend - ring the phone number and there is no on-site security guy so the guy on the phone asks you if you have an ASIC. Only if you answer "Yes" does he hang up and ring the special number that unlocks the gate for you.
Fortunately a terrorist would answer "No" and therefore would not be given access to the tarmac!
Kinda gives you a warm, "secure" feeling doesn't it!
Dr
Go to Gate 6 at Jandakot on a weekend - ring the phone number and there is no on-site security guy so the guy on the phone asks you if you have an ASIC. Only if you answer "Yes" does he hang up and ring the special number that unlocks the gate for you.
Fortunately a terrorist would answer "No" and therefore would not be given access to the tarmac!
Kinda gives you a warm, "secure" feeling doesn't it!
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 6th Feb 2008 at 05:16.
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ESP.....the tie down area is a garden fence and gate...........
CBP.....now there is a town that needs security!
J
PS.........Flying Binghi with a name like that I would not be making such comments if I were you
CBP.....now there is a town that needs security!
J
PS.........Flying Binghi with a name like that I would not be making such comments if I were you
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Once again it seems that in an effort to be seen to be doing something about a percieved problem, the Governments solution is to throw money at at!!
As a former talkback radio host here in South Australia used to say about such events......
''But why worry? It's not real money! It's taxpayers money!!''
As a former talkback radio host here in South Australia used to say about such events......
''But why worry? It's not real money! It's taxpayers money!!''