Three Greens?
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Three Greens?
Here's one for the good Doctor.
On Saturday I was on late final in an A36, when a mate on downwind calls in asking if I have three greens because he can't see my wheels. Quick check confirms (for about the third time) the greens, but I elect to go around anyway. My mate then confirms he can now see the wheels and it must just have been a trick of the light.
My question: is it possible to have three greens in the cockpit but the wheels to be hung up?
Please discuss
Walrus
On Saturday I was on late final in an A36, when a mate on downwind calls in asking if I have three greens because he can't see my wheels. Quick check confirms (for about the third time) the greens, but I elect to go around anyway. My mate then confirms he can now see the wheels and it must just have been a trick of the light.
My question: is it possible to have three greens in the cockpit but the wheels to be hung up?
Please discuss
Walrus
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3 Greens
Not all that it seems.
I had completed a rocketry mission in a Mustang at Green Hills and was landing into the north-east on runway 03. Immediately after touch down the aircraft settled a little to the left and started to swing in that direction. I applied rudder and right wheel brake to keep straight. This momentarily corrected things but I found further increasing brake necessary. Eventually very hard braking started to tip the nose over. I gave up when the prop started to hit the runway and just let it all happen after that. There was nothing more I could think to do as it was now obvious that the left undercarriage leg had folded. It all seemed to happen quite slowly as the aircraft settled onto the left wingtip off the runway and swung around until it was going sideways. I expected the right gear to collapse as it was making a deep groove in soft ground as the aircraft slid towards a large stormwater open ditch. I prepared to exit the cockpit in a hurry if it should end up in the ditch and braced myself for the expected impact, however the aircraft stopped just short of that ditch.
Finding my radio still active, I pressed the transmit button and called to advise that I had parked my aircraft in an unusual place. The response was that emergency services were on their way. I continued to sit in the cockpit wondering whether I had really checked for three green lights in the undercarriage indicator as is the normal drill on turning on to base leg. I was sure I would have but could not be certain. Right now there were indeed three greens indicating. The fire tender promptly became bogged in the soft ground near the aircraft as I climbed out onto the wing and waited for more appropriate transportation away from my unusual parking position.
Investigation revealed a failed end bearing on the rod which connects the top of the oleo to the hydraulic actuator. The rod pulls the oleo into the down position so that the broken bearing left the main leg swinging in the breeze. The down indicating micro switch is actuated by the connecting rod so that it was confirmed that I would indeed have had a valid down indication of undercarriage.
Not all that it seems.
I had completed a rocketry mission in a Mustang at Green Hills and was landing into the north-east on runway 03. Immediately after touch down the aircraft settled a little to the left and started to swing in that direction. I applied rudder and right wheel brake to keep straight. This momentarily corrected things but I found further increasing brake necessary. Eventually very hard braking started to tip the nose over. I gave up when the prop started to hit the runway and just let it all happen after that. There was nothing more I could think to do as it was now obvious that the left undercarriage leg had folded. It all seemed to happen quite slowly as the aircraft settled onto the left wingtip off the runway and swung around until it was going sideways. I expected the right gear to collapse as it was making a deep groove in soft ground as the aircraft slid towards a large stormwater open ditch. I prepared to exit the cockpit in a hurry if it should end up in the ditch and braced myself for the expected impact, however the aircraft stopped just short of that ditch.
Finding my radio still active, I pressed the transmit button and called to advise that I had parked my aircraft in an unusual place. The response was that emergency services were on their way. I continued to sit in the cockpit wondering whether I had really checked for three green lights in the undercarriage indicator as is the normal drill on turning on to base leg. I was sure I would have but could not be certain. Right now there were indeed three greens indicating. The fire tender promptly became bogged in the soft ground near the aircraft as I climbed out onto the wing and waited for more appropriate transportation away from my unusual parking position.
Investigation revealed a failed end bearing on the rod which connects the top of the oleo to the hydraulic actuator. The rod pulls the oleo into the down position so that the broken bearing left the main leg swinging in the breeze. The down indicating micro switch is actuated by the connecting rod so that it was confirmed that I would indeed have had a valid down indication of undercarriage.
Chimbu Chuckles is the expert on all technical issues related to Bonanzas (cause his is currently in bits!), however, my understanding is that if you have at least one green light - then all the wheels should be down.
Dr
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 4th Feb 2008 at 01:13.
As noted, the Bonanza has all three gear legs mechanically connected to a single electric motor (which is little changed from a B24 turret motor). The gear indicator switches are at the outboard end of the actuators, which, as long as they have not separated from the gear legs, will correctly show the status of the gear.
Bevan..
Bevan..
Grandpa Aerotart
True on older CAR 3 certified Bonanzas...as in yours and mine FTDK...not sure of the later FAR23 certified A/G36s etc...the earlier Bonanzas originally only had a single green light and the '3 green' cluster is just a different display wired (in series) to the same system...so any one green means all wheels must be down and locked.
Of course you would back that up with a reduction in MP to check no warning horn as well.
A few years ago while on a Christmas trip in mine I selected gear down and only got 2 greens, nose and left main. Having checked the horn didn't go off after reducing the MP below where I knew it would go off I landed normally with no worries.
I was really impressed when my teenage daughter leaned forward from row two and brought my attention to the lack of a green on the right main...I had already noticed of course but it was REALLY nice to see her taking some interest. I explained it all and she sat back with nary a care while we landed.
A good reason to regularly check your gear warning horn by reducing MP on descent until it goes off and noting the MP where that happens...they all vary a bit...particularly in a rented aircraft you may not have flown before/for a long time.
Also a good example of why systems knowledge is a good thing...better than having a simple busted globe run your day by running stress levels up to the point where a silly mistake can happen.
Of course you would back that up with a reduction in MP to check no warning horn as well.
A few years ago while on a Christmas trip in mine I selected gear down and only got 2 greens, nose and left main. Having checked the horn didn't go off after reducing the MP below where I knew it would go off I landed normally with no worries.
I was really impressed when my teenage daughter leaned forward from row two and brought my attention to the lack of a green on the right main...I had already noticed of course but it was REALLY nice to see her taking some interest. I explained it all and she sat back with nary a care while we landed.
A good reason to regularly check your gear warning horn by reducing MP on descent until it goes off and noting the MP where that happens...they all vary a bit...particularly in a rented aircraft you may not have flown before/for a long time.
Also a good example of why systems knowledge is a good thing...better than having a simple busted globe run your day by running stress levels up to the point where a silly mistake can happen.
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If the rod ends do separate from the legs it makes a really special noise which is very hard to mistake, a loud thump.
Then you have no option but a 2 legged landing as the emergeny extension also relies on the rod ends being intact.
All really means don't scrimp on gear maintenance on a Bonza or Baron, both have similar system.
Then you have no option but a 2 legged landing as the emergeny extension also relies on the rod ends being intact.
All really means don't scrimp on gear maintenance on a Bonza or Baron, both have similar system.
Silly Old Git
A old time TAL pilot in an old Baron going into Laigam rejected the qantas cadets observation that the single green was in fact not showing on final
"Ach laddie dont tell me the gear is not down och aye" as he PRESSED TO TEST the bulb
The Baron settled beautifully on its guts
The problem on that one was the emergency crank handle was left extended and had wound around a cargo net loose on the floor
There was another story..attributed to Pants that his Baron in the circuit GKA had gear stuck in the up position due to seized up lock rollers
The man got out of his seat removed it ,got a screwdriver undid an inspection panel, selected gear down and held the gear torque rod down to stop it bending up wards
It worked
"Ach laddie dont tell me the gear is not down och aye" as he PRESSED TO TEST the bulb
The Baron settled beautifully on its guts
The problem on that one was the emergency crank handle was left extended and had wound around a cargo net loose on the floor
There was another story..attributed to Pants that his Baron in the circuit GKA had gear stuck in the up position due to seized up lock rollers
The man got out of his seat removed it ,got a screwdriver undid an inspection panel, selected gear down and held the gear torque rod down to stop it bending up wards
It worked
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The man got out of his seat removed it ,got a screwdriver undid an inspection panel, selected gear down and held the gear torque rod down to stop it bending up wards
It worked
It worked
And the aircraft flew happily on whilst another fairy tale is written!
Grandpa Aerotart
Tin I remember that Pants story...I'd forgotten all about it until you mentioned it above.
I just spent a week in November pulling the interior out of my Bonanza...including the panels on the rear and top of the forward spar carry through and the trim etc which would be under the front seats normally...there is just no way Pants managed to undo anything meaningful while airborne...it took me hours with the damn thing parked in a hangar.
I snapped this while cleaning all the grime from under my floor...it doesn't show what is immediately above the U/C gear box...but believe me there is nothing you could remove with a screw driver in flight.
If the gear uplock rollers seize NOTHING will get the gear down...which is why they are the single most important preflight check item in my view...well after fuel anyway.
I just spent a week in November pulling the interior out of my Bonanza...including the panels on the rear and top of the forward spar carry through and the trim etc which would be under the front seats normally...there is just no way Pants managed to undo anything meaningful while airborne...it took me hours with the damn thing parked in a hangar.
I snapped this while cleaning all the grime from under my floor...it doesn't show what is immediately above the U/C gear box...but believe me there is nothing you could remove with a screw driver in flight.
If the gear uplock rollers seize NOTHING will get the gear down...which is why they are the single most important preflight check item in my view...well after fuel anyway.
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Building an RV-10 looks good from here Chuck...yeah only 4 full seats and faster...........................and a build from new is quiker than the rebuild
OK I know .....bugger off ya cheeky young pr!ck....going now
J
OK I know .....bugger off ya cheeky young pr!ck....going now
J
r!
Jaba, Jaba, Jaba ........ when ARE you going to learn to keep it shut?
The guy survived PNG, and you get your kicks by baiting him?
Dr
PS: Remember that you are still only dreaming about the RV10. That "Fantastic Plastic" of yours is no match for an A36!
Recycled plastic?
The guy survived PNG, and you get your kicks by baiting him?
Dr
PS: Remember that you are still only dreaming about the RV10. That "Fantastic Plastic" of yours is no match for an A36!
Recycled plastic?
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 4th Feb 2008 at 11:48.
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No match.....160 v120 TAS
maybe 100kg or so....usable load with similar range....too lazy to win a losing battle.......
But bang for buck per mile
Plastic wins! And not recycled like a coke can
....ooooops
And what was that climb out of YBRK like.........departuer 5 min later .......and BNE Cen Jaba maint 7500 only a few min after FTDK maint 6000..... It aint all that bad
Don't ya love a good thread drift.......as for "beech" flying.....ask chuck
J
maybe 100kg or so....usable load with similar range....too lazy to win a losing battle.......
But bang for buck per mile
Plastic wins! And not recycled like a coke can....ooooopsAnd what was that climb out of YBRK like.........departuer 5 min later .......and BNE Cen Jaba maint 7500 only a few min after FTDK maint 6000.....
It aint all that badDon't ya love a good thread drift.......as for "beech" flying.....ask chuck
J