YMMB

[kabukiman]

Sunfish:

YMMB is now "Oxford Airport".

I came very close to aborting my arrival a few weeks ago, climbing from circuit altitude to 1500 overflying and asking the Tower to start me again from some place like Carrum.

I was arriving from Academy and reported at Sandown as requested and directed to join downwind for 35L, I was given traffic of about Four Oxford aircraft on crosswind or downwind, with another Two in the circuit and Two more arriving from GMH via Parkmore.

I had difficulty spotting all and getting sufficient situational awareness to the point where I was just about to call it off since I couldn't determine if I had sufficient separation as required by the Regs. It was not helped by rotten student English language skills.

To top it off, I couldn't clear the runway for a minute after landing because I was Third in a Queue of Oxford Cessnas, and the lead one didn't have the English to get his taxi request out and start moving forward. Eventually his instructor made the call for him.

We all were students once and have to make allowances, but this is getting ridiculous.

It's silly isn't it. Being at a 'smaller' school there when I was first learning and doing lots of circuits, there were heaps of times I was flat out denied start for ccts. I'd be denied ccts on request from GMH as well, often. They fly miles out, these huge silly circuits (the controllers call them "oxford's 747 circuits")

They hog the aerodrome and it's quite irritating. I have trouble understanding what some of their students are saying. Have you ever visited the tower and spoken to the blokes up there? they really don't like the oxford planes. Good reason.

They don't position themselves correctly over entry points like academy, GMH, carrum etc when they make their calls which is dangerous and annoying too. Not to mention they can never hold proper circuit height which makes it hard to spot your traffic comeing in from somewhere like sandown on a hazy day.

[wishiwasupthere]

They fly miles out, these huge silly circuits (the controllers call them "oxford's 747 circuits"

The circuits flown at MB are huge! It doesn't seem unusual for aircraft to turn base right at the edge of the Class D boundary. Any other Class D airfield in Australia and ATC will tell them to tighten up the circuit, but it doesn't seem to happen at MB.

[poonpossum]

Haha, big circuits. Reminds me of a website I found ages ago, seems to be actively opposing the planecrashzone website calling for MB's shutdown

Ill find it...

New Circuit Ops - The WLMASMTIGUMOA

[Sunfish]

Kabukiman, we were all complete novices at one time or another. The "Oxford problem" in my opinion, solves itself after a few weeks when a litle experience has been gained.

My breaking point is when I hear the tower say "Which one are you? Waggle your wings!"

[VH-XXX]

The circuits flown at MB are huge!

Really?

They are only as big as you make them. I'm known for flying a tight circuit and I fly them fast and usually go inside those that light to turn downwind over the water. It's been working for me for 10 years.... but I'm not in a training environment. I'm not sure why large circuits are an issue for those that aren't actually training, because you rarely would even do a circuit except for departure and some arrivals and you usually set your own circuit size in those scenarios, particularly if you are climbing out on departure.

[Stationair8]

Listen girls, this thread is about YMMB history not a bitch fight about who flies the biggest circuit etc.

[DH164]

Remember when YMMB was a GAAP aerodrome? Yeah, me neither.

[kabukiman]

Kabukiman, we were all complete novices at one time or another. The "Oxford problem" in my opinion, solves itself after a few weeks when a litle experience has been gained.

My breaking point is when I hear the tower say "Which one are you? Waggle your wings!"

you're right of course. I'm delighted when I do slot in behind an oxford plane and they do everything nicely.

Also wasn't the idea of ensuring they have a good grasp of English... that they can communicate effectively, in English? Between some oxford students and some of the students around mangalore/ballarat I really do have trouble understanding what they are doing or trying to say.

[Sunfish]

They are supposed to have English to "Cambridge level Two" (I think that is the standard) but many buy the certificate or are poorly trained.

My partner is a teacher and she uses her own technique with these kids eg: it's not "what is the reference speed?" - to which you will get the answer : "sixty knots", it's "show me how you know you are travelling at Sixty knots"

.........and half the time they can't show her. (She isn't teaching aviation - just an example.

[kabukiman]

Listen girls, this thread is about YMMB history not a bitch fight about who flies the biggest circuit etc.

I once flew xwind down to Cardinia resevoir and still had to slow down and widen up for an oxford cessna

[tobz92_ymen]

kabukiman, less than 10% of oxford students are foreigners and to who english is a second language, Unlike Mangalore where the figure is almost reversed

[the_rookie]

Your full of it kabukiman. You flew 15nm in your crosswind leg?

[Centaurus]

The "Oxford problem" in my opinion, solves itself after a few weeks when a litle experience has been gained.

The "Oxford Problem" should have never been allowed to get legs in the first place. It has been going on for years under the former GFS so it's nothing new. Place the blame squarely on the company flying instructors who either deliberately encourage wide circuits to make more money or more probably fail to teach their students the correct spacing downwind required of a normal circuit pattern. Either way it is poor instructional technique which has not been addressed by CASA FOI responsible for the over-sight of the operation. CASA need to get out of the office instead of concerning themselves with just paper trail audits. Wide circuits costs money to other users of the circuit.

[smiling monkey]

I used to hire C172s from Schutts at YMMB about a quarter of a century ago (seems just like yesterday) and I remember they had a Chipmunk and a Tiger Moth in one of their hangars owned by a former TAA retired captain if I'm not mistaken. Schutts used to be the happening place on the aerodrome with it's fleet of Cessna's. Seem to recall they had the contract from the SEC (State Electricity Commission) to inspect power-lines which involved flying around the state at 500 ft AGL, as well as the Triple M painted C172 for the morning traffic reports. I believe many of their instructors have gone on to join the majors, which is testimony to their professionalism. Pity the place has shut down.

Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, we used to be able to fly 6 to 7 circuits in an hour back then from blocks off to blocks on. Goodness knows how many circuits you can fly in an hour these days with the traffic and wide circuits.

[Stikman]

I ran into the pilot of the Triple M 172 at Mangalore airshow one year, and managed to talk myself into a ride...it was a fun experience doing the traffic report!
We teach our students to turn downwind when the upwind threshold is 45 degrees over the shoulder, and the same turning base (with the downwind threshold). In theory it works, but when we have to constantly adjust for the 747-circuits some people like, it gets rather annoying!
RVAC is still doing formation endorsements....I'm about halfway through mine.

[Checkboard]

I used to teach formation at RVAC, 25 years ago.

[Kulwin Park]

Schutts

Smiling Monkey, I remember those times back at Schutts too. That place was vibrant at times, and had a real good name for training too. I used to look around the walls and see where they used to take people around the country on Safari's in C210's. I think that big end room towards the flight line had that huge map on the wall as well where everyone had pinned where they had been - WOW!

The guy you maybe talking about with the old Tiger Moth and ex airline captain maybe Ken Jose? His son Peter Jose used to instruct at Schutts, but never knew where he went - I did hear he was in Perth... But there was a guy also with a red & white chipmunk, ex airline, but can't remember his name. Nice guy. From memory the Chipmunk rego was VH-CCE, but then got changed to VH-WGI ?

Cheers, KP

[cattletruck]

Thanks for bring that up Kulwin Park, I flew Kieth's Tiger a number of times, and also remember his spotty, pimply teenager son too.

I even flew that same chippie too, the best flight I've ever had, weather was perfect and can still vividly recall doing a knife edge maneuver and glancing up to see a beautiful little red tipped wing carving up the deep blue sky with the sun reflecting off every rivet along the spar. Magic.

Those were the days...and they were cheap to hire too.

[kabukiman]

the rookie:

Your full of it kabukiman. You flew 15nm in your crosswind leg?

I guess tongue in cheek dunt come across well on thar internets

[Advs]

All the trees and and mounds around the edge of the airport on the SE side from threshold 31R to the edge of boundary rd has been cleared, any idea if there is airport expansion planned?