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Is Second Officer time worth anything?

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Is Second Officer time worth anything?

Old 20th Nov 2007, 06:24
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Is Second Officer time worth anything?

Given the anticipated recruitment at Air NZ and Qantas, amongst others, it would appear that there will be a number of S/O slots coming up.
I am a fairly experienced turboprop driver and am looking to move on. I don't want to relocate at this stage (kids at school etc) so an F/O slot on a 737/320 won't work. I'm therefore considering a commutable longhaul S/O job for a few years before moving offshore to get an F/O slot somewhere.
Do the larger overseas carriers (Emirates etc) value S/O time? I believe Emirates' minimums are 1000 hours jet time - does S/O time count? Is it also correct that you get a usable type rating out of Air NZ which would be valid (hence attractive) elsewhere?
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Old 20th Nov 2007, 08:45
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Is Second Officer time worth anything?


About $110 - $150k pa!

Why bother jumping through all the hoops just to move offshore for an F/O slot?? Promotion at QF should be starting up to the point that by the time you have the hours for say, Emirates, you may be close to a promotion anyway.

Mind you, if you go in to it with the idea that it's only to get some jet time to move on, you may find you don't get the job in the first place! They can smell that sort of thing.
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Old 20th Nov 2007, 09:24
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If you mean the hours, It's not actually real stick time but I'm sure just with the actual time spent at the airline they'd give you a look in. Not entirely sure though, open to correction. QF S/O salary begins around 70k, moving up quite steadily.

Jeps
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Old 20th Nov 2007, 11:04
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S/O time for Emirates

My third hand understanding is a total of 250 hrs towards all Jet total; No matter how long you spend as S/O
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Old 20th Nov 2007, 11:18
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A classic example of why the airlines want to make pilots pay for training.
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Old 20th Nov 2007, 11:57
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Capt Franga,

Airines employ S/Os for one reason - to save $$$. They spend the minimum time necessary to have someone who is upright and breathing to satisfy the state regulations. For example - some airlines don't even teach/check their S/Os on asymmetric handling in any other scenario than cruise. Not sure how an S/O is meant to be a useful crew member during an engine failure after V1 if he/she has never been trained in such procedures.

Forget about the technicalities and legalities of who recognises what... S/O time is not productive unless you spend it slowly oozing up the seniority ladder of that same airline.

Some fellas have spent long enough as S/Os that they struggle to ever recover.

VI
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Old 20th Nov 2007, 19:03
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EK need 2000 jet for F/O and S/O time no matter how much you have only accounts for a maximum of 500.
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Old 20th Nov 2007, 19:35
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almost.....

Emirates require 4000 TT and 2000 jet. EK will count 500 S/O hours towards the 4000TT but nothing towards the 2000 jet.
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Old 20th Nov 2007, 20:44
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S/O time

It's my understanding that Air NZ do give you a full rating on the type (not sure about QF), and depending on the rate of progression you may find yourself being upgraded to an F/O fairly quickly.
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Old 20th Nov 2007, 23:42
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If your goal is Emirates/Cathay then I would suggest that being a 2nd Officer is only really marking time. Don't forgot that when you play on the international market you are competing with countries such as those in Europe where there is no GA and people's first job is as a FO on a 737. Whilst Autralians look at Emirates requirements and gasp in Europe those requirements wouldn't be very hard to get. So if you want to go overseas try and get into a Jet job as a FO and leave the 2nd officer jobs for those guys who want careers in local airlines.
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Old 20th Nov 2007, 23:42
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Thanks for the (mostly) useful replies. Just some background info - looking more at NZ than Qantas. There may be long haul F/O slots coming up in a few years but at the moment it still takes quite a time, the F/O slots are for the short haul stuff.
And PF, to use an awful phrase, but apposite "get with the program". After paying to train to NZ ATPL and UK ATPL I am looking to get a return on my investment, as well as see a bit of the world before I finish with flying. Sorry if that doesn't fit in with your 1950's view of the aviation world.
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Old 20th Nov 2007, 23:51
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I'd be careful with that attitude

Pete's right. Major airlines do spend alot of money training people and one of the reasons that the legacy carriers have good conditions is generally the turnover is low, so the money spent in training is covered by low turnover.

If everyone did what you are talking of doing we'd be paying for everything.
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Old 26th Sep 2018, 07:15
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Short answer,nope. Short haul Captains carry low time S/Os who take F/O positions for at least their first six months.Large carriers get away with it because they are happy to spend the money getting them up to speed..But give me a 3000 hour GA pilot every time. Pity they are like hens teeth these days.
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Old 26th Sep 2018, 19:56
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Time as an SO teaches you a lot. Its very good training and you get paid.

Bin there, done that
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Old 26th Sep 2018, 20:08
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SO’s at Air NZ get a full rating and do the same checks as any other rank... but you’ll more than likely start as an A320 FO.
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Old 26th Sep 2018, 20:33
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The SO is the most important member of the crew..as the one who does the preflight walk around you get to stand in the wind with the fueller or line maintenance engineer and discuss the footy while the flying crew put the wrong gate into the FMS
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 11:21
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S/O time is what you make of it in most areas. You sit next to experienced pilot in crz and can discuss the whole operation. You sit behind them in often challenging weather and see what works. To me it was an attitude thing - I went in with the object of milking the minds of the pilots I flew with so I could learn stuff quickly. Almost invariably pilots are happy to discuss their thinking about fuel ordering, prioritising of potential alternates et al.
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 11:57
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This thread is from 2007, in case some of you haven't noticed.

Interestingly, from reading some of his later posts, Captain Condom did not get in to Air New Zealand and was quite bitter about it.
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