Some advice for the younger ones...
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
COROWACOMET
"why is it that you believe that the engineers at GE, Williams, Rolls Royce etc will sit on their hands and watch the rest of the technological world pass them by?"
Why is it that you continually make claims as to the meaning of my posts that are simply not there?!?!?!?
Of course the good people at these companies are working on new technology. However this industry is solely dependent on oil. Other transport industries (ie motor vehicles) can run profitably on fuel with lower calorific values. Aviation cannot. If you want to know the essential difference, it is that we work in three dimensions. We need conventional oil because it provides sufficient "bang" to enable us to carry sufficient payload over sufficient range. No other product can do this. So there will be a long development time to develop appropriate substitutes with appropriate burning and energy producing characteristics. This is an extremely costly development, and will require enormous investment to bring to market. The infrastructure must be agreed upon on a global scale and then built. So I say once again, the new products will not be brought to market until economically feasible - ie taking everything into account they must be cheaper to produce than oil. To convince energy companies of this will take many years of high oil prices. In the meantime our industry will die a slow death, taking our jobs with it. The new technology will eventually emerge and create a resurgence in the industry, but long after our working lives have finished. You were born either 30 years too early or 30 years too late!
The above paragraph contains the entirety of my point. Please stop trying to impute implications from my posts that simply are not there. To disagree with me and debate me is your prerogative. To misrepresent me is bad form.
Once again, this is a view of the industry as I see it. If you choose to wear rose coloured glasses and go "gung ho" into aviation because you are seduced by big jets, good luck, we have all been there. However, as others have alluded, our working lives are a disaster waiting for a place to happen if we don't have a backup plan.
OI
"why is it that you believe that the engineers at GE, Williams, Rolls Royce etc will sit on their hands and watch the rest of the technological world pass them by?"
Why is it that you continually make claims as to the meaning of my posts that are simply not there?!?!?!?
Of course the good people at these companies are working on new technology. However this industry is solely dependent on oil. Other transport industries (ie motor vehicles) can run profitably on fuel with lower calorific values. Aviation cannot. If you want to know the essential difference, it is that we work in three dimensions. We need conventional oil because it provides sufficient "bang" to enable us to carry sufficient payload over sufficient range. No other product can do this. So there will be a long development time to develop appropriate substitutes with appropriate burning and energy producing characteristics. This is an extremely costly development, and will require enormous investment to bring to market. The infrastructure must be agreed upon on a global scale and then built. So I say once again, the new products will not be brought to market until economically feasible - ie taking everything into account they must be cheaper to produce than oil. To convince energy companies of this will take many years of high oil prices. In the meantime our industry will die a slow death, taking our jobs with it. The new technology will eventually emerge and create a resurgence in the industry, but long after our working lives have finished. You were born either 30 years too early or 30 years too late!
The above paragraph contains the entirety of my point. Please stop trying to impute implications from my posts that simply are not there. To disagree with me and debate me is your prerogative. To misrepresent me is bad form.
Once again, this is a view of the industry as I see it. If you choose to wear rose coloured glasses and go "gung ho" into aviation because you are seduced by big jets, good luck, we have all been there. However, as others have alluded, our working lives are a disaster waiting for a place to happen if we don't have a backup plan.
OI
Last edited by Ochre Insider; 19th Nov 2007 at 21:14.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: unsure
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry but I don't think I'm misrepresenting you at all. Your basic idea is that oil prices will go into the stratosphere, every other form of transportation will adapt and begin burning new fuels and aviation will contract, colapse and die!
If you want to know the essential difference, it is that we work in three dimensions.
Wow what a valuable insight.
We need conventional oil because it provides sufficient "bang" to enable us to carry sufficient payload over sufficient range. No other product can do this.
So of course since it does not currently exsist and since your imagination does not stretch beyond what is in front of you right now no other product or technology could possibly ever be invented. Right?
I'm glad you didn't take up a career as a scientist or an engineer and I can't help feel sorry for your FO or Capt on those long flights. Sitting next to you and listening to this negative drivel would lead to
.
The Comet.
If you want to know the essential difference, it is that we work in three dimensions.
Wow what a valuable insight.
We need conventional oil because it provides sufficient "bang" to enable us to carry sufficient payload over sufficient range. No other product can do this.
So of course since it does not currently exsist and since your imagination does not stretch beyond what is in front of you right now no other product or technology could possibly ever be invented. Right?
I'm glad you didn't take up a career as a scientist or an engineer and I can't help feel sorry for your FO or Capt on those long flights. Sitting next to you and listening to this negative drivel would lead to
.The Comet.
Last edited by corowacomet; 20th Nov 2007 at 00:03.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: unsure
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry I didn't intend for it to be a pissing contest at all, its just that aviation has had threats on the horizon from the year dot. Advising 'younger ones' not to entertain the thought of being a pilot because of some mis-guided fear about the future really does sh!t me. The industry may not be perfect but it does offer some rewards that cannot be found anywhere else.
The Comet.
The Comet.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oil was about $25 a barrel on the eve of 9/11. Its now almost 4 times that price. The industry seemed to handle that pretty well. So if it doubles to $200 in a few years then I don't think it would have a great effect on aviation.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Corowa
As a professional pilot you will one day be required to Gather information, Review it meticulously, Analyse it thoroughly, Decide upon a course of action, and then Evaluate the consequences. It is called the GRADE concept, and if your goal is to fly for a major airline, you may come across it one day.
An essential and related concept is of course CRM. This has to do with swallowing one's pride and accepting that others do have the ability to provide valuable input into the decision making process. They may be right, or they may be wrong. However it is your duty to consider everything with a balanced and open mind.
If you are dogmatic, closed minded, and refuse to consider another perspective, as you have been on this thread, my advice is to ensure these traits do not rear themselves at the airline screening process.
Pilots who do not consider all factors, and who do not work with backup plans increase the likelihood that one day, the houses just may be getting bigger at a time when they should be getting smaller.
I have attempted to provoke an honest and open discussion on an issue that is relevant for all of us. Now, as I sign off on this thread for the last time, on my way to burn yet another 60 tonnes of fuel, I invite you to have the last say, as I know you must.
Over and Out.
OI
As a professional pilot you will one day be required to Gather information, Review it meticulously, Analyse it thoroughly, Decide upon a course of action, and then Evaluate the consequences. It is called the GRADE concept, and if your goal is to fly for a major airline, you may come across it one day.
An essential and related concept is of course CRM. This has to do with swallowing one's pride and accepting that others do have the ability to provide valuable input into the decision making process. They may be right, or they may be wrong. However it is your duty to consider everything with a balanced and open mind.
If you are dogmatic, closed minded, and refuse to consider another perspective, as you have been on this thread, my advice is to ensure these traits do not rear themselves at the airline screening process.
Pilots who do not consider all factors, and who do not work with backup plans increase the likelihood that one day, the houses just may be getting bigger at a time when they should be getting smaller.
I have attempted to provoke an honest and open discussion on an issue that is relevant for all of us. Now, as I sign off on this thread for the last time, on my way to burn yet another 60 tonnes of fuel, I invite you to have the last say, as I know you must.
Over and Out.
OI
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: unsure
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"...As a professional pilot you will one day...."
Oh how I look forward to that day!
With a trade, a degree and an ATPL I think I have a handle on planning for the future so please conserve your patronising bullsh!t for someone else!
"....I have attempted to provoke an honest and open discussion on an issue that is relevant for all of us...."
Honest, open and pushing an irrational and ignorant line of thinking.
".....I invite you to have the last say, as I know you must....."
Damm, I fell into your carefully set trap! You really are smarter than your powers of reasoning suggest.
The Comet.
Oh how I look forward to that day!
With a trade, a degree and an ATPL I think I have a handle on planning for the future so please conserve your patronising bullsh!t for someone else!
"....I have attempted to provoke an honest and open discussion on an issue that is relevant for all of us...."
Honest, open and pushing an irrational and ignorant line of thinking.
".....I invite you to have the last say, as I know you must....."
Damm, I fell into your carefully set trap! You really are smarter than your powers of reasoning suggest.
The Comet.
