RAAF pilots leaving
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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Cougar,
Not quite accurate.
The 1 year salary for 5 years additional service is an MSBS related bonus. You must be a Sqn Ldr or able to be promoted and you take it within 90 days of the 15 year anniversary of service. As you said it is taxed.
Other options are
1) just stay in the general pool on your standard salary taking whatever bonus (qualification dependant) you get and taking your chances with postings/promotions/airline applications
2) switch to the new flying only scheme (similar but not the same as Spec Aircrew) were you are removed from promotion pool and given a fixed contract (currently at reduced rate) at a defined location.
The road show was a waste of time, with the presenter saying in no uncertain terms DO NOT SWITCH SCHEMES.
Not quite accurate.
The 1 year salary for 5 years additional service is an MSBS related bonus. You must be a Sqn Ldr or able to be promoted and you take it within 90 days of the 15 year anniversary of service. As you said it is taxed.
Other options are
1) just stay in the general pool on your standard salary taking whatever bonus (qualification dependant) you get and taking your chances with postings/promotions/airline applications
2) switch to the new flying only scheme (similar but not the same as Spec Aircrew) were you are removed from promotion pool and given a fixed contract (currently at reduced rate) at a defined location.
The road show was a waste of time, with the presenter saying in no uncertain terms DO NOT SWITCH SCHEMES.
Shagpile I'm intrigued to know why people that are under ROSO, and therefore can't resign anyway, require a retention bonus to prevent them from being treated like dirt?
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Yep, sorry, I didn't mention the MSBS bit.
For all the sales pitch for the last few years about getting a significantly better superannuable salary ($30K) it doesn't really meet that mark now does it? Especially considering that the capability bonus could disappear down to zero in 2 years time.
For all the sales pitch for the last few years about getting a significantly better superannuable salary ($30K) it doesn't really meet that mark now does it? Especially considering that the capability bonus could disappear down to zero in 2 years time.
Join Date: May 2002
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confused
I'm on the outside looking in. Have they actually reduced your superannuable salary or is it the fact that this extra Capability allowance is not superannuable because it is an allowance.
The new scheme? having read the DFRT release it still has the number of years flying since graduation as a PG determinate. Have you been told of an intent to remove this, or is it just a rumour. I'm just curious that's all.
The new scheme? having read the DFRT release it still has the number of years flying since graduation as a PG determinate. Have you been told of an intent to remove this, or is it just a rumour. I'm just curious that's all.
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The capability is not included in your salary so does not count towards super.
The new pay system is qualification based, no longer based on years flying.
So if you are a FLGOFF QFI you will be doing far better on the new system compared to the old.
If you are a SQNLDR Line pilot with no exec experience, then you are far better on the old system, and not the new (the new has about PG 5 as QFI/OFI, then to go up you need to be a FLTCDR - CO now limited to PG 9, and pay group 10 is no longer - on the new scheme).
The new pay system is qualification based, no longer based on years flying.
So if you are a FLGOFF QFI you will be doing far better on the new system compared to the old.
If you are a SQNLDR Line pilot with no exec experience, then you are far better on the old system, and not the new (the new has about PG 5 as QFI/OFI, then to go up you need to be a FLTCDR - CO now limited to PG 9, and pay group 10 is no longer - on the new scheme).
The military is excellent while it lasts. I did 12 years, but my career would have only had a short amount of flying left in it before being overtaken by a desk. I enjoyed every second, but it was never intended to be a life long career (although one of my friends is now at the top).
In my case, I knocked back an F111 slot and took the airline option. I've now had 17 years of command on heavy jets. Moving on was certainly the right choice for me.
In my case, I knocked back an F111 slot and took the airline option. I've now had 17 years of command on heavy jets. Moving on was certainly the right choice for me.
Or you could have had 4 years on F111s and only 13 years command on heavy jets. Horses for courses as you say.
How does it feel saying you knocked back F111s?
How does it feel saying you knocked back F111s?
Join Date: Mar 2007
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How does it feel saying you knocked back F111s?
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Retention
From my point of view, the 30K bonus worked a treat. It was paid just before the 'recession' really hit. After the 12 month 'ROSO', the airlines weren't hiring, so those same guys are still in the system now.
As for the Capability allowance (20K MAJ equiv) paid in 6 monthly installments, it seems like they have hit the nail on the head again. e.g. It begins in April 2010. So if the airlines start hiring next year?? the timing is spot on right?
As for the NEW capability amounts in 2011 (yet to be decided), one would think that if the amounts currently offered are based on the current economic situation and lack of airline hiring, then the new amounts wouldn't be any less would they??
As for the Capability allowance (20K MAJ equiv) paid in 6 monthly installments, it seems like they have hit the nail on the head again. e.g. It begins in April 2010. So if the airlines start hiring next year?? the timing is spot on right?
As for the NEW capability amounts in 2011 (yet to be decided), one would think that if the amounts currently offered are based on the current economic situation and lack of airline hiring, then the new amounts wouldn't be any less would they??
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Those amounts are locked in for the next 2 years. 2010 and 2011. Things may change if nobody is leaving by the end of next year. The problem is now too many pilots!
There seems to be a big delay with the new spec scheme. Maybe they now realise they don't need to use this at the moment because there are plenty of pilots to fill the liabilities.
I don't know how they will decide on who becomes spec aircrew, because there will be an oversupply of qualified members wanting to continue flying on a better pay scale.
There seems to be a big delay with the new spec scheme. Maybe they now realise they don't need to use this at the moment because there are plenty of pilots to fill the liabilities.
I don't know how they will decide on who becomes spec aircrew, because there will be an oversupply of qualified members wanting to continue flying on a better pay scale.
How does it feel saying you knocked back F111s?
Join Date: Jan 2010
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It seems pretty obvious the ASP isn't designed for the sustainability of the pilots....
I agree with Shagpile's comment Re the bonus at end of ROSO, its not that junior guys need a bonus before ROSO finishes, but they do need career management and locational stability to ensure that they haven't already made their mind up to leave when they can. This was brought up at our ASP consultations, and these two points were more important to most people than pay. The spec aircrew thing sounds like a great idea, but its a shame that it can't actually be relied on- when the organisation's needs change they can simply change the rules and post you to Richmond.
In terms of career management, I'd be interested to here other stories of where this has led to decreased or increased commitment to the RAAF?
I agree with Shagpile's comment Re the bonus at end of ROSO, its not that junior guys need a bonus before ROSO finishes, but they do need career management and locational stability to ensure that they haven't already made their mind up to leave when they can. This was brought up at our ASP consultations, and these two points were more important to most people than pay. The spec aircrew thing sounds like a great idea, but its a shame that it can't actually be relied on- when the organisation's needs change they can simply change the rules and post you to Richmond.
In terms of career management, I'd be interested to here other stories of where this has led to decreased or increased commitment to the RAAF?
In terms of career management, I'd be interested to here other stories of where this has led to decreased or increased commitment to the RAAF?
I may not leave on the day my ROSO expires, in which case I will gladly accept the bonuses until I do!
My two cents
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I made my mind up to go because of the way the military (not just the RAAF) treats its people (including, but not limited to me).
I don't know your story Bung and you may have a genuine gripe, but beware of the "grass being greener on the other side" syndrome.
Seems nearly every reservist that I speak to who flies for a major carrier hasn't too many nice things to say about how they are treated.
I feel much the same, CSD - when you actually make the move and get out, you see things in a slightly different light.
The reasons most of us probably join in the first place (to fly good military aircraft in challenging roles etc) are legitimate, but get clouded in time by the things that piss us off about the job. I think the main thing that made me jump the first time was not having sufficient control over my own destiny.
Having ducked and weaved to get where I wanted has worked well for me over the years, in that I think I'm happier than I would have been had I stayed in the normal career progression and climbed the tree to my level of incompetence - quite low some would say
- and it's mainly that aspect of taking steps to 'massage' my career to my own liking whilst still hopefully contributing pretty fully to the organisation which I find satisfying now.
The reasons most of us probably join in the first place (to fly good military aircraft in challenging roles etc) are legitimate, but get clouded in time by the things that piss us off about the job. I think the main thing that made me jump the first time was not having sufficient control over my own destiny.
Having ducked and weaved to get where I wanted has worked well for me over the years, in that I think I'm happier than I would have been had I stayed in the normal career progression and climbed the tree to my level of incompetence - quite low some would say
- and it's mainly that aspect of taking steps to 'massage' my career to my own liking whilst still hopefully contributing pretty fully to the organisation which I find satisfying now.
Join Date: May 2006
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I too am a subscriber to the "grass is greener" philosophy. I firmly believe that there is a strong "negativity vortex" (as I like to call it) which exists in the RAAF, and it is stronger in some parts of the organisation than others.
I strongly believe that it is very important to force yourself to step back and look at how good you have it and try and distance yourself from the negative sentiment that seems to perpetuate itself.
Some are incapable of doing this and I can relate to them because I went through a phase like this at one stage in my career.
On the subject of pay, I dont have a lot of time to listen to people complaining about a six figure salary quite frankly. In a our profession where you can reach the top of your game in about 6 years (I am talking about qual not rank) I think a six figure salary is quite reasonable.
(Now ducking as the angry negativity spears come my way)
I strongly believe that it is very important to force yourself to step back and look at how good you have it and try and distance yourself from the negative sentiment that seems to perpetuate itself.
Some are incapable of doing this and I can relate to them because I went through a phase like this at one stage in my career.
On the subject of pay, I dont have a lot of time to listen to people complaining about a six figure salary quite frankly. In a our profession where you can reach the top of your game in about 6 years (I am talking about qual not rank) I think a six figure salary is quite reasonable.
(Now ducking as the angry negativity spears come my way)
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Is the Grass Greener?
I don't regret getting out, and have been out now for over 3 years but still turn up now and then as a reservist as I can't go completely cold turkey after 20 years in the military. Oh yes, I have also tried getting back in between jobs, but I'm told the RAAF is full of pilots...
The big thing that made me leave was I just got sick of the big stick little carrot deal that is endemic in the military. No where was this more prevalent then the half day briefings we had to endure just cause you were going to go to a different base for a few weeks; where every brief could be paraphrased as 'ok boys and girls, work hard and have a good time, but if you have too good a time, here is the stick...whack whack'.
I guess when you are pushing 40 you start resenting being treated like an adolescent who is going away on a school camp for the first time.
It all made sense to me when I read The Psychology of Military Incompetence, where the author outlines a convincing argument that the military works to retard its workforce at an adolescent level, as lets be frank, how else would you have a workforce prepared to risk life and limb if they had matured along with the rest of the working population.
Along this theme, I was always amazed to see grown men, having completed their 20 years, trembling like babies at the prospect of having to compete in the big scary civilian world, which all of us know who after having left the military is not so scary when you see the calibre of your average co-worker - not too intimidating. But you see, the military is also very good at convincing you that you are pretty worthless, so you'd better not leave etc.
Anyway, not wanting to bag the military, I did 20 years and i would do it all again. There are things out of the RAAF you miss, the high standards, esprit de corp, serviceable aircraft when they are on line, unequalled safety standards and systems, and as someone else has alluded to here, good man management (the concept of management seems to be almost non-existent in the commercial world).
Finally, I have realised that military flying is a young mans game, so at some point an old bastard like me will become dissatisfied and leave, which is again a natural part of the system at work.
The big thing that made me leave was I just got sick of the big stick little carrot deal that is endemic in the military. No where was this more prevalent then the half day briefings we had to endure just cause you were going to go to a different base for a few weeks; where every brief could be paraphrased as 'ok boys and girls, work hard and have a good time, but if you have too good a time, here is the stick...whack whack'.
I guess when you are pushing 40 you start resenting being treated like an adolescent who is going away on a school camp for the first time.
It all made sense to me when I read The Psychology of Military Incompetence, where the author outlines a convincing argument that the military works to retard its workforce at an adolescent level, as lets be frank, how else would you have a workforce prepared to risk life and limb if they had matured along with the rest of the working population.
Along this theme, I was always amazed to see grown men, having completed their 20 years, trembling like babies at the prospect of having to compete in the big scary civilian world, which all of us know who after having left the military is not so scary when you see the calibre of your average co-worker - not too intimidating. But you see, the military is also very good at convincing you that you are pretty worthless, so you'd better not leave etc.
Anyway, not wanting to bag the military, I did 20 years and i would do it all again. There are things out of the RAAF you miss, the high standards, esprit de corp, serviceable aircraft when they are on line, unequalled safety standards and systems, and as someone else has alluded to here, good man management (the concept of management seems to be almost non-existent in the commercial world).
Finally, I have realised that military flying is a young mans game, so at some point an old bastard like me will become dissatisfied and leave, which is again a natural part of the system at work.
