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RAAF pilots leaving

Old 13th May 2017, 23:58
  #601 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: North Queensland, Australia
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Spec aircrew is a bit of a vexed issue, that's for sure.

From a 'greater good' point of view, I think it's great there's at least some mechanism to keep valuable experience in squadrons by breaking that 'must be posted after a couple of years, must be promoted' cycle, particularly when flying hours and opportunities for on some types are limited and it can be hard to really learn the ropes as a boggie prior to being posted out to a ground job (although I can't claim to be in touch with how things are these days - please correct me if that's not the case any more).

On the down side, does spec aircrew really achieve that aim, or is it just a good thing for those who get it (not that I begrudge anyone the opportunity, I sort of did it by default in the end with a combination of luck and some ducking and weaving!)
Arm out the window is offline  
Old 14th May 2017, 01:52
  #602 (permalink)  
 
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Spec aircrew is a bit of a vexed issue, that's for sure.
Agree wholeheartedly.
I think the whole - "post 'em out after two years" thing is the main issue and is out of date.
It takes 2-3 years to get a pilot to the level you want in the Squadron (competent, maybe a route checker/IRE/QFI/etc) and then, you send em' away!
Generally speaking, it would make better economics and would retain the corporate knowledge, if tours were around 4 years. Reckon people would be happier, too.
But, then who does the crappy desk jobs for 4 years?? Never an easy solution...
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Old 14th May 2017, 05:09
  #603 (permalink)  
 
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But, then who does the crappy desk jobs for 4 years??
Radical suggestion incoming: maybe somebody the government hasn't just spent millions of dollars on training and who has finally worked out how to do their core job?

I know, crazy right.

Also this is a rumour website - I heard it's 10% under manned.
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Old 14th May 2017, 05:33
  #604 (permalink)  
 
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Radical suggestion incoming: maybe somebody the government hasn't just spent millions of dollars on training and who has finally worked out how to do their core job?
Shaggy, you're a dangerous radical - 2 years JOC posting for you!
How are you going to develop your Officer skills in preparation for that promotion you don't want if you don't do a crappy desk job?
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Old 14th May 2017, 19:10
  #605 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by josephfeatherweight View Post
Shaggy, you're a dangerous radical - 2 years JOC posting for you!
How are you going to develop your Officer skills in preparation for that promotion you don't want if you don't do a crappy desk job?
Ha! Well actually that sort of happened already. I threw in the towel 18 months ago when a flying posting turned into Wing trip hazard guy after arriving in location.

Them: You're now trip hazard guy.
Me: Congratulations - you're now short a pilot AND a trip hazard guy.

For anybody interested in why this stuff keeps happening, read this organisational paper on "Functional Stupidity". Your mind will be blown.

http://openaccess.city.ac.uk/15604/1...ed%20final.pdf

From the paper:

Functional stupidity is organizationally-supported lack of reflexivity, substantive reasoning and justification. It entails a refusal to use intellectual resources outside a narrow and ‘safe’ terrain. It can provide a sense of certainty that allows organizations to function smoothly. This can save the organization and its members from the frictions provoked by doubt and reflection. Functional stupidity contributes to maintaining and strengthening organizational order. It also can motivate people, help them to cultivate their careers and subordinate them to socially acceptable forms of management and leadership. Such positive outcomes can further reinforce functional stupidity. However, functional stupidity can also have negative consequences such as trapping individuals and organizations into problematic patterns of thinking, which engender the conditions for individual and organizational dissonance. These negative outcomes may prompt individual and collective reflexivity in a way that can undermine functional stupidity
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Old 5th Aug 2017, 03:12
  #606 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quite enjoyed that paper Shags, encapsulated 30 years worth of working for 'organisations' in a nutshell. You cannot make this stuff up. Its as real as the ground job staring you in the face.

Any news on RAAF manning? Pilots leaving in droves to the airline environment as foretold earlier in the thread or not?
Chronic Snoozer is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2017, 06:45
  #607 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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My former CO: "Eventually everyone has to grow up and get a real job"

MilFlyer is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 10:07
  #608 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
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Talking

Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer View Post
Quite enjoyed that paper Shags, encapsulated 30 years worth of working for 'organisations' in a nutshell. You cannot make this stuff up. Its as real as the ground job staring you in the face.

Any news on RAAF manning? Pilots leaving in droves to the airline environment as foretold earlier in the thread or not?

The masses are starting to roll now.... Allegedly the commanders may have twigged to a retention issue? The wheel is well and truely round
Tazrat737 is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2018, 11:35
  #609 (permalink)  
 
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Allegedly the commanders may have twigged to a retention issue?
Won't happen - they'll come up with ever more ingenious ways to apply more ROSO for random stuff...
If only they considered making people WANT to stay, rather than forcing them to stay?
josephfeatherweight is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2018, 01:40
  #610 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Originally Posted by Tazrat737 View Post
The masses are starting to roll now.... Allegedly the commanders may have twigged to a retention issue? The wheel is well and truely round
Evidenced by actual resignations, aircraft being parked, what?
Chronic Snoozer is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2018, 11:42
  #611 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MilFlyer View Post
My former CO: "Eventually everyone has to grow up and get a real job"

Well I never have, nor do I intend to.
itsnotthatbloodyhard is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2018, 00:59
  #612 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: OZ
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The essential issue is that the structure and function of the ADF is built around a training sausage machine that must contine operating, with a finite staffing establishment for each service arm. Hence by design you are a member that must be replaced from below, and people must leave the ADF to keep numbers within budget.
So... up or out! RAAF pilots are no different, except the timeframes and costs of competent replacement is enormous (esp for FJ pilots), and is becoming more so.

Maintenance of‘ Capability’ is all the system really cares about. You can debate over posting durations, and retention issues that increase your happiness and security, but you must eventually choose UP or OUT, and the opportunity wheel will keep spinning. Right now the wheel is causing great grief and concern for RAAF, but opportunities for both paths. The important thing is to decide what you want, time your strategy and opportunities to maximise your potential either way.

Good luck with your departure strategy, or promotion to a better job.
Roller Merlin is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2018, 01:20
  #613 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
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News just in.

Sign a contract and the Australian Defence Dept may expect you to keep to your end of the bargain.
Skeleton is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2019, 05:34
  #614 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Loss of RAAF pilots to airlines.

Originally Posted by Arm out the window View Post
That's right, malcontents and deadwood was the term, S.D.Evans the utterer I think?
AotW, spot on. The interview I read and responded to at the time was in Australian Aviation Magazine as I recall.
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