RAAF pilots leaving
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
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The gates have opened.
Is this a trickle or a flood? What are you basing this on (in terms of known numbers of pilots per unit throwing in a resignation)?
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Melbourne
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Agree.
Very little to indicate the 'gates have opened'. RAAF/ADF has done a pretty good job on the remuneration side of the equation. Most pilots able to get out are at the mid-30's stage of life - kids, mortgage, a certain 'comfortable' standard of living - the current (limited) options just don't support that lifestyle.
The RAAF would welcome a good 'flush-out' this year - the separation rate is too low and the system is getting blocked up (to continue the toilet metaphor!).
Very little to indicate the 'gates have opened'. RAAF/ADF has done a pretty good job on the remuneration side of the equation. Most pilots able to get out are at the mid-30's stage of life - kids, mortgage, a certain 'comfortable' standard of living - the current (limited) options just don't support that lifestyle.
The RAAF would welcome a good 'flush-out' this year - the separation rate is too low and the system is getting blocked up (to continue the toilet metaphor!).
Join Date: Sep 2007
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The word on the street is that VB and Jet* will be looking for another 100-150 pilots each over the next year.
After that there will likely be little movement on the domestic scene for a few years, especially if someone fails in what is an overly competitive market with rising oil prices and stimulus still propping up the economy. If someone like Tiger pulls out there will be even less hiring as the excess of pilots are soaked up.
So the RAAF should see an increased attrition rate this year, but it will only likely be back to normal levels, before everything bungs up again (so if you are thinking of leaving The Firm, nows your chance!)
After that there will likely be little movement on the domestic scene for a few years, especially if someone fails in what is an overly competitive market with rising oil prices and stimulus still propping up the economy. If someone like Tiger pulls out there will be even less hiring as the excess of pilots are soaked up.
So the RAAF should see an increased attrition rate this year, but it will only likely be back to normal levels, before everything bungs up again (so if you are thinking of leaving The Firm, nows your chance!)
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Or we could do something radical like try to keep experience. Naaah.......far better to keep the average level of corporate flying experience decreasing as we bring new aircraft on line.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Agree with cam on red here. Jetstar is not competitive for most looking to leave. The money is less and lifestyle is no more stable than defence. VB is marginally competitive on pay but only on the 737, the lifestyle also won't suit everyone. Tiger doesn't seem to be any better. That leaves Qantas and Cathay DEFO as the promised land and neither look like recruiting anytime soon. My bet is a slow trickle of those not satisfied with their individual circumstances.
1.2 pilots per squadron
450L/hr
I don't know exact numbers across the ADF, what does the R stand for again in PPrune?
Its based on the above posts, both Jetstar and VB are looking and I know X number (X known to me) have the nod. There is also Y who are looking. Both X and Y are >1. Not all are looking for the big $, but more lifestyle choices. ie anything but Ric or Esl.
These numbers have become known to me in the last week. And I haven't even been asking.
So more than just a rumour. And I didn't say it was a flood, I said the gates were open. It was a question, we will see what the answer is!
450L/hr
I don't know exact numbers across the ADF, what does the R stand for again in PPrune?
Its based on the above posts, both Jetstar and VB are looking and I know X number (X known to me) have the nod. There is also Y who are looking. Both X and Y are >1. Not all are looking for the big $, but more lifestyle choices. ie anything but Ric or Esl.
These numbers have become known to me in the last week. And I haven't even been asking.
So more than just a rumour. And I didn't say it was a flood, I said the gates were open. It was a question, we will see what the answer is!
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
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Retention of RAAF Pilots
Falling Leaf, don't know if you would have known of a now former CAS who had words such as these to say when being interviewed by Australian Aviation magazine in the 1980's. Asked if he was concerned at the loss of RAAF pilots to the civil airlines his response was something along these lines. "No, I'm not really concerned. Generally it is only the malcontents who, correctly, believe that they do not have a future in the RAAF who leave the service". I know and flew with many of the so-called "malcontents", many of whom were great pilots, great blokes and went on to become highly respected members of civil airlines. The former CAS, some time after leaving the RAAF put his hand up to get pre-selected for a go at Federal politics. His comment then had changed somewhat to "If we do not do something to stem the flow of experienced RAAF pilots to the civil airlines the RAAF will not be capable of completing their operational tasking". Like you, my 20 plus years with "Ronnie" taught me much and I would do it again.
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Malcontents
Delta Foxtrot, I don't recall the term "deadwood" being used, but the CAS (one D.E.) was totally dismissive of the reason why many left, to improve their flying and financial future, and found it more convenient to denigrate them by labelling them as malcontents.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Oldm8
I have to agree with Oldm8 earlier in the piece regarding the fact that a lot of pilots in the RAAF focus on the negative aspects of the job vice the exciting things we do as pilots. (I am as guilty as the next man!)
Yes, man management could be better (in the RAAF) but I still believe that the retention bonuses paid in 2007/8 worked a treat - not many left - most took the 1 year ROSO and bonus and they are now still in as there aren't many jobs elsewhere.
Yes, man management could be better (in the RAAF) but I still believe that the retention bonuses paid in 2007/8 worked a treat - not many left - most took the 1 year ROSO and bonus and they are now still in as there aren't many jobs elsewhere.
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I dont know if it is still the case but there is a defence contract in Nowra NSW operating learjets in strike/target towing rolls with Navy,Army and Airforce. 300 knots at 50 feet and all sorts of fun stuff like that.When they do travel they can take there family on the aircraft with them for a defence funded holiday.And from memory the pay was on par with Defence although this may have changed.
So for those military people that want stability but also want to maintain an interesting flying carreer in a coastal area. It seems like a good option. But my understanding is over the last few years they have also struggled to attract starters.
So for those military people that want stability but also want to maintain an interesting flying carreer in a coastal area. It seems like a good option. But my understanding is over the last few years they have also struggled to attract starters.
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Ha ha. yeah i guess it does come across that way.I actually worked there many years ago when National jet had the contract in the early 90,s.But not as a fly boy.I really enjoyed it and many that left there spent the following years trying to get back in. It was very interesting work with a good crew of people. Its been a long time since i have been there but i chatted to an employee a year or two ago and the work still seems to be just as good. The location was great for people wanting to raise families. If your a city boy dont bother as it is still very much a country town.Heard a rumour that the next contract is a 10 year so that kind of security would feel good.They require ex fighter pilots due to the kind of flying they do so its a good option for guys that dont like the airline lifestyle.
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With regards to the Nowra contract they have been short for some time. You have to ask the question why? Money would be the first answer as you can't retain or recruit if people have issues with remuneration. I have spoken to several ex Nowra guys who prefered the work to airline flying but still left. I think the current retention bonuses will be effective for the RAAF given salary levels outside. Not saying everyone will stay but on balance enough will.
Going forward the good deals will be fewer as more guys stay and the competition for promotion much stiffer. Upright and breathing to make WGCDR is a thing of the past.
Going forward the good deals will be fewer as more guys stay and the competition for promotion much stiffer. Upright and breathing to make WGCDR is a thing of the past.
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My understanding is there will be no promotions to SQNLDR this year, and a couple to WGCDR. The RAAF probably would like to see a few more resignations this year to allow some of the young talent to move up the chain. If this year is like the last two, then there will be far too many pilots, because the training tap is not going to be turned off.
On the other hand, there are probably a lot of guys just waiting for Qantas mainline to start hiring (it will surely be doing so at some point); and then I would think there would be a massive cleanout.
Either way with so many O4's and O5's clogging the system it's not a good time to be facing a posting.
On the other hand, there are probably a lot of guys just waiting for Qantas mainline to start hiring (it will surely be doing so at some point); and then I would think there would be a massive cleanout.
Either way with so many O4's and O5's clogging the system it's not a good time to be facing a posting.
Last edited by dostum; 13th Jan 2010 at 04:52.
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Promotions.
Either way with so many O4's and O5's clogging the system it's not a good time to be facing a posting.
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Either way with so many O4's and O5's clogging the system it's not a good time to be facing a posting.