RAAF pilots leaving
Join Date: Jun 2001
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"Not with the new tax laws announced in last night's budget!"
I guess we'll find out if it affects Project Al-Yamamah earnings. If so, I wonder if BAe will increase the pay to compensate.
When the Saudi government were ruminating about imposing some form of taxes, BAe advised us that they would increase pay to compensate. This could be a bit different though.
I guess we'll find out if it affects Project Al-Yamamah earnings. If so, I wonder if BAe will increase the pay to compensate.
When the Saudi government were ruminating about imposing some form of taxes, BAe advised us that they would increase pay to compensate. This could be a bit different though.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I wouldn't be so sure the tax status of those in the sandpit, or anywhere else for that matter has changed. The changes concern Australians who are residents for tax purposes and someone on a 2+year contract would most likely be a non-resident for tax purposes. The tax law change is about a very specific loophole that was being taken advantage of by businessman etc, who would usually work overseas for periods of around 6 months.
After watching the ABC show Hollowmen on Defence recruitment tonight there has to be a leak in the government. The show just seemed to cover an awful lot of suspicions we have all had.
The only thing it didn't cover was stalling for a recession, then finally releasing your ASP.
The only thing it didn't cover was stalling for a recession, then finally releasing your ASP.
Join Date: May 2002
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So has anyone actually left this year?
Are there any updates to the suggested outcome of the ASP. Of course like all reviews it could take five years and then die a slow death and leave everyone on the existing system?
Are there any updates to the suggested outcome of the ASP. Of course like all reviews it could take five years and then die a slow death and leave everyone on the existing system?
Last edited by Truckmasters; 16th May 2009 at 02:05.
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the silence is deafening.
Well that tells us all what the seperation rate is like.
Still be interested in any updates on the ASP if anyone can be bothered
Well that tells us all what the seperation rate is like.
Still be interested in any updates on the ASP if anyone can be bothered
Last edited by Truckmasters; 3rd Jun 2009 at 00:56. Reason: typo
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I heard there was more info coming by the middle of this year.....but with the current 'head-shed' who knows....
probably dead in the water until the next economic boom. They will never learn.
probably dead in the water until the next economic boom. They will never learn.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Hearing dates at the DFRT are 18-19 June and 7-8 July so should hear more soon. The new system will not be advantageous for aircrew as a whole, what you need to look for is the size of any retention top up payments for pilots. As for the down turn they are aware that they need to set a top up rate that doesn't fluctuate wildly so lets just see what happens. More reading on the ASP intranet site.
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Hasn't this thread gone quiet. Interesting to see that the 30K bonus that received so much criticism was delivered with such impeccable timing! Surprised we haven't seen Control Snatch back on here gloating.
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http://www.dfrt.gov.au/Determination...20Aug%2009.pdf
Not trying to nit pick but it's 17K/pa for Capt equiv and 20K/pa for Maj equiv for those on the legacy/time based scheme. If you're flying that pushes you close to the $140K/pa mark.
So is it massively late for the drain 18 months ago or well placed for when the tide turns next year?
Not trying to nit pick but it's 17K/pa for Capt equiv and 20K/pa for Maj equiv for those on the legacy/time based scheme. If you're flying that pushes you close to the $140K/pa mark.
So is it massively late for the drain 18 months ago or well placed for when the tide turns next year?
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I think they may well have cracked the renumeration part of retention. From the web. SQNLDR on 10 year flying pay $108225 Plus service allowance $10971 Plus 6 monthly bonuses (from above post) $20000 Flying pay if actively flying $7010 Total $146206. With plummeting pay and conditions outside defence, particularly with the low cost airlines, the days of defence being a source of pilots for the airlines may be over.
Last edited by BombsGone; 11th Oct 2009 at 21:37. Reason: Typo
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Stating the obvious, but lack of locational stability and diminishing flying jobs post +10 years are the biggest factors. Certainly the 17K/20K has made the gap to the LCC's bigger.
I'm going to guess that the legacy carriers are still going to be too attractive when they start recruiting again.
With this Aircrew Capability Allowance being up for renewal/extension in Oct 2011 the next iteration will miss the departures in late 2010/early 2011. I reckon they should've gone with annual renewals to remain more responsive.
How much higher will they go in Oct 2011 that's the question??
I'm going to guess that the legacy carriers are still going to be too attractive when they start recruiting again.
With this Aircrew Capability Allowance being up for renewal/extension in Oct 2011 the next iteration will miss the departures in late 2010/early 2011. I reckon they should've gone with annual renewals to remain more responsive.
How much higher will they go in Oct 2011 that's the question??
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The pay for mil aircrew is not bad but the new scheme does not introduce certainty of income (bonus subject to change by as yet unknown amounts), no certainty of location, no certainty of flying. If money is the main driver then staying in is a great option but pilots will still leave in large numbers. The flesh peddlers have been at pains to point out they don't want to keep lots of people just a few percent more than currently resign over time so most people are no better placed than they were and will still leave. When the majors start recruiting expect a lot of people to jump.
Agreed.
I graphed it at work - assuming the 32/16k retention bonus stays after roso, the pay ends up *roughly* similar to the old scheme (minus a few thousand here and there) for 2 guys joining direct entry. The roadshow guys basically sold it as "if I haven't talked you out of signing on by the end, then I have failed". You know its terrible when the people tasked with selling it don't care.
The problem is the uncertainty. Defence has an excellent track record of signing people over to new schemes, only to change the conditions once people have moved over (eg DOHAS). Remember - they never make you sign for a pay rise!
Obviously, the only people who will sign over will be those who hugely benefit from the system enough to justify the risk of a huge paycut next year. Everybody else will stay on the current scheme. This will cost defence in the short term, with savings to come in the longer term.
The treatment of the junior guys is just as important as the bonuses to the senior guys looking at leaving. You can't treat people like dirt their whole career and expect them to stay on +5 yrs with a magical bonus at roso. I'm not sure if it has always been this way, but the conversations at junior aircrew level seems to be which airline you are going to join!!
I graphed it at work - assuming the 32/16k retention bonus stays after roso, the pay ends up *roughly* similar to the old scheme (minus a few thousand here and there) for 2 guys joining direct entry. The roadshow guys basically sold it as "if I haven't talked you out of signing on by the end, then I have failed". You know its terrible when the people tasked with selling it don't care.
The problem is the uncertainty. Defence has an excellent track record of signing people over to new schemes, only to change the conditions once people have moved over (eg DOHAS). Remember - they never make you sign for a pay rise!
Obviously, the only people who will sign over will be those who hugely benefit from the system enough to justify the risk of a huge paycut next year. Everybody else will stay on the current scheme. This will cost defence in the short term, with savings to come in the longer term.
The treatment of the junior guys is just as important as the bonuses to the senior guys looking at leaving. You can't treat people like dirt their whole career and expect them to stay on +5 yrs with a magical bonus at roso. I'm not sure if it has always been this way, but the conversations at junior aircrew level seems to be which airline you are going to join!!
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Shagpile I'm intrigued to know why people that are under ROSO, and therefore can't resign anyway, require a retention bonus to prevent them from being treated like dirt?
As BombsGone has pointed out, junior aircrew should probably be more concerned with the career they've presently got, rather than assuming they'll make the grade elsewhere.
As BombsGone has pointed out, junior aircrew should probably be more concerned with the career they've presently got, rather than assuming they'll make the grade elsewhere.
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P05,
There is no retention bonus paid if you are in ROSO. At end of ROSO, you get two options - sign up for 5 years and get an additional year salary paid on that day (but taxed), OR take the $17K/20K per year which is not guaranteed.
But nothing paid unless you are out of ROSO.
There is no retention bonus paid if you are in ROSO. At end of ROSO, you get two options - sign up for 5 years and get an additional year salary paid on that day (but taxed), OR take the $17K/20K per year which is not guaranteed.
But nothing paid unless you are out of ROSO.
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Thanks Cougar, that makes sense.
Shagpile's post seemed to suggest he didn't consider this a reasonable approach, hence my query.
As for the choice between the options, I guess it depends on whether you're deployed at the 15 year mark or not
The treatment of the junior guys is just as important as the bonuses to the senior guys looking at leaving. You can't treat people like dirt their whole career and expect them to stay on +5 yrs with a magical bonus at roso.
As for the choice between the options, I guess it depends on whether you're deployed at the 15 year mark or not